Sorry, it wouldn't let me put the winky face just on that 2nd part. People have all kinds of tastes and I like the leanness of venison over beef. I agree on not wanting to eat deer that potentially have CWD. I didn't take a deer last year, but any I take going forward will be tested or I won't be eating them.fullback44 said:txags92 said:fullback44 said:
How about just shut all deer hunting down for 3-4 years… kind of like when they take our fishing limits away, just shut it down and let everyone cool off a bit
What purpose would shutting down hunting achieve? No evidence or science to support that. If you are wanting to make a point about commercial fishing interests or covid regulation, perhaps start another thread?fullback44 said:
Everyone go talk to a beef breeder and get him to set you up a blind in the field and let you shoot a good eating steer… the meat is better then deer meat anyway
Tell me you don't know how to cook venison without telling me…
I grew up on a ranch, shot and ate all kinds of deer there big guy…. I'm on the ranchers side of this all, quit moving deer around and this problem will go away .. I prefer our own raised beef these days .. not taking a chance on eating a CWD deer .. anyway that's my 2 cents and it's just one of many opinions on this subject
Now tell me YOU don't know a lick about this
TPWD / Deer Breeders / CWD
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Last: 3 days ago by txags92
duddleysdraw88
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How long do you want to ignore this user?
Why everyone should do whatever possible to stop the spread of CWD/ how this will progress.
Even if CWD never jumps the species barrier most people will not want to eat deer potentially infected with CWD.
Eating deer meat is:
If you don't stop it now more drastic measures will have to be taken to manage it across a much larger geography of the state.
Age structure of the deer herd will be changed in a bad way (less older deer).
Even if CWD never jumps the species barrier most people will not want to eat deer potentially infected with CWD.
Eating deer meat is:
- One of the main reasons people hunt - Hunting participation will likely decline with high levels of CWD
- Eating meat is one of the main reasons hunting is supported by the public. - Less support against all the anti hunters (see Colorado).
If you don't stop it now more drastic measures will have to be taken to manage it across a much larger geography of the state.
- Mandatory testing
- Goodbye baiting for deer hunters in TX (one of the few states that still allows it.
- Active management of not letting deer get old to prevent transmission of CWD (i.e. the % of 6 year old deer with CWD is much higher than the % of 2 year old deer)
Age structure of the deer herd will be changed in a bad way (less older deer).
660 AM The Answer
The Great Mark Davis
The Great Mark Davis
species proximity permits easy transmission of sickness.
TXlic GIGM61
I guess on control and prevention of spreading of CWD from eating infected meat I'm confused. The sudden concern for exposure while hunters annually bring back deer and elk carcass from infected regions of Colorado with zero tracking in Texas. How many decades have these carcass been packed back to Texas, dropped off at local processor, and hung next to another animal from a different hunter. Those carcass all processed in same equipment, and sent out to their owners for consumption by family and friends?
Why have known CWD positive or exposed deer in west and panhandle Texas have been left to breed, and be hunted, again those carcass not tracked .
Doesn't seem to be of any concern to TPW.
Why have known CWD positive or exposed deer in west and panhandle Texas have been left to breed, and be hunted, again those carcass not tracked .
Doesn't seem to be of any concern to TPW.
A little confused at what you are getting at. Are you worried about other meat being tainted at a processor? That risk/exposure is minimal, if it ever crossed the species barrier then you would see restrictions. The goal is to stop the spread to live animals.
Technically not allowed to bring any carcass/head/ spinal parts in from a CWD zone in other states. Only quartered meat.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/hunting/cwd/carcass-movement-restrictions
On allowing native deer herd to continue to breed. This is not passed down through breeding. It's from prions spreading in the environment.
Technically not allowed to bring any carcass/head/ spinal parts in from a CWD zone in other states. Only quartered meat.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/hunting/cwd/carcass-movement-restrictions
On allowing native deer herd to continue to breed. This is not passed down through breeding. It's from prions spreading in the environment.
I sat in on the staff meetings in East Texas circa 2004/2005 when staff recommendations were being taken for the formulation of a CWD response plan. I went through and got my shooting certification that was being implemented. I know what was in the original response plan, which many of the posters have alluded to. I also know that the instant political pressure was applied, that plan was thrown out the window. I still help run TPWD regulatory lines, and one of my buddy's has one of the highest CWD sampling quotas in the state. He has contacts all over his counties watching for roadkill deer, and has to scramble to collect. I'll still volunteer to go yank samples if need be, but between mythical mountain lion investigations and CWD issues, I don't miss that aspect of TPWD.
Welcome back, ursus! Everyone missed you.
Question: if captive breeders are a significant cause or vector of CWD in Texas, why do states without large numbers of captive breeders have very high rates of CWD? South central PA, for example, has a high rate of CWD but few if any captive breeders.
I got no dog in this hunt, but am simply trying to learn the facts and arguments.
ETA: I just did some research on this and it appears that I was mistaken - there are quite a few captive breeders in PA. 2019-PADFA-Directory.pdf
Question: if captive breeders are a significant cause or vector of CWD in Texas, why do states without large numbers of captive breeders have very high rates of CWD? South central PA, for example, has a high rate of CWD but few if any captive breeders.
I got no dog in this hunt, but am simply trying to learn the facts and arguments.
ETA: I just did some research on this and it appears that I was mistaken - there are quite a few captive breeders in PA. 2019-PADFA-Directory.pdf
harge57 said:
A little confused at what you are getting at. Are you worried about other meat being tainted at a processor? That risk/exposure is minimal, if it ever crossed the species barrier then you would see restrictions. The goal is to stop the spread to live animals.
Technically not allowed to bring any carcass/head/ spinal parts in from a CWD zone in other states. Only quartered meat.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/hunting/cwd/carcass-movement-restrictions
On allowing native deer herd to continue to breed. This is not passed down through breeding. It's from prions spreading in the environment.
If it's such a huge threat why is the transport not monitored? If the prion is in the soil, why are they wiping out captive herds? If it transfers with animals, why are those known herds in west Texas and panhandle not eradicated.
How long have carcasses been restricted from import from affected zones? Doesn't seem to be any health issues from anybody eating affected animals.
I circulate through periodically. My job duties have expanded significantly and don't have as much time to play at night.
Sadly, most of the issues are going to come back to just a couple bad actors (lack of a better term)....specific to Texas
Sadly, most of the issues are going to come back to just a couple bad actors (lack of a better term)....specific to Texas
The general belief up through the Midwest and NE is the congregations in the winter deer yards.
That may be because it takes so long for the disease (Creutzfeld-Jacob) to manifest in humans. I've read that it can take 10 years. It's really hard to determine what someone ate 10 years prior to the manifestation of the disease.Quote:
Doesn't seem to be any health issues from anybody eating affected animals.
Anecdotally, I lived in south central PA where CWD is very high. I met two people there whose spouses had died of CJ disease.
See my edit to my post above - there are quite a few captive breeders in PA.ursusguy said:
The general belief up through the Midwest and NE is the congregations in the winter deer yards.
I was curious about that the first time I read it.
Deerdude said:harge57 said:
A little confused at what you are getting at. Are you worried about other meat being tainted at a processor? That risk/exposure is minimal, if it ever crossed the species barrier then you would see restrictions. The goal is to stop the spread to live animals.
Technically not allowed to bring any carcass/head/ spinal parts in from a CWD zone in other states. Only quartered meat.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/hunting/cwd/carcass-movement-restrictions
On allowing native deer herd to continue to breed. This is not passed down through breeding. It's from prions spreading in the environment.
If it's such a huge threat why is the transport not monitored? If the prion is in the soil, 1. why are they wiping out captive herds? 2. If it transfers with animals, why are those known herds in west Texas and panhandle not eradicated.
How long have carcasses been restricted from import from affected zones? Doesn't seem to be any health issues from anybody eating affected animals.
1. Because the captive animals are put on a trailer and shipped all over the state and would infect a completely new area.
2. Because the prions are already spread over that environment and any deer that would come in would still likely be infected. Reducing deer densities in cwd infected areas is a legitimate management option, but those deer aren't moving much and deer densities are already low. You also run into political pressure not to do so.
Quote:
With any management strategy, some reduction in the deer population is likely to be recommended unless deer densities are already at low numbers, as is the case in the Hueco Mountains in far West Texas, where CWD was first discovered in Texas. Recommendations to reduce a population density might be appropriate to contain CWD in a limited area, reduce or maintain prevalence rates, and reduce opportunity to infect other animals.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/diseases/cwd/landowners/faqs.phtml
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4396485/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1IQKZ979HL7oAc_G84eFOKC8EttuLuVMPTO4TyygNRqVZC0teEOMb7CoU_aem_ATZvdDo20UnpAVMfRI77md0ODhDZHzAljKdP5C1unIEtn2GzhiRFYd4i_fLOJOTnYs9cxIlTzTIIwInNxjFLuuHl
A peer reviewed research showing cwd prions cant cross into humans if looking for a read. No, i wouldnt eat cwd deer meat,nor any sick animal knowingly. However, i wouldnt test it either before eating if when i killed the animal it looked healthy out of fear of getting cwd.
However, whatever a person decides to do with their body is their choice if not harming/killing someone else (abortion). Just wanted to share this peer reviewed article that popped up on my facebook feed involving rats and cwd etc
A peer reviewed research showing cwd prions cant cross into humans if looking for a read. No, i wouldnt eat cwd deer meat,nor any sick animal knowingly. However, i wouldnt test it either before eating if when i killed the animal it looked healthy out of fear of getting cwd.
However, whatever a person decides to do with their body is their choice if not harming/killing someone else (abortion). Just wanted to share this peer reviewed article that popped up on my facebook feed involving rats and cwd etc
This is why I call you out. Either you are flat out lying or you can't understand the science behind the study. That 2015 article does not say what you claim it does. This study is using transgenic mice and proposes the human aminio acids can help protect humans from transmission. There is some interesting stuff there but you are just wrong.montanagriz said:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4396485/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1IQKZ979HL7oAc_G84eFOKC8EttuLuVMPTO4TyygNRqVZC0teEOMb7CoU_aem_ATZvdDo20UnpAVMfRI77md0ODhDZHzAljKdP5C1unIEtn2GzhiRFYd4i_fLOJOTnYs9cxIlTzTIIwInNxjFLuuHl
A peer reviewed research showing cwd prions cant cross into humans if looking for a read. No, i wouldnt eat cwd deer meat,nor any sick animal knowingly. However, i wouldnt test it either before eating if when i killed the animal it looked healthy out of fear of getting cwd.
However, whatever a person decides to do with their body is their choice if not harming/killing someone else (abortion). Just wanted to share this peer reviewed article that popped up on my facebook feed involving rats and cwd etc
montanagriz said:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4396485/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1IQKZ979HL7oAc_G84eFOKC8EttuLuVMPTO4TyygNRqVZC0teEOMb7CoU_aem_ATZvdDo20UnpAVMfRI77md0ODhDZHzAljKdP5C1unIEtn2GzhiRFYd4i_fLOJOTnYs9cxIlTzTIIwInNxjFLuuHl
A peer reviewed research showing cwd prions cant cross into humans if looking for a read. No, i wouldnt eat cwd deer meat,nor any sick animal knowingly. However, i wouldnt test it either before eating if when i killed the animal it looked healthy out of fear of getting cwd.
However, whatever a person decides to do with their body is their choice if not harming/killing someone else (abortion). Just wanted to share this peer reviewed article that popped up on my facebook feed involving rats and cwd etc
I think you are overselling what the study concluded when you say "cwd can't cross into humans". The study (from 2015) uses genetically modified mice modeled after humans to compare affects of exposure to other genetically modified mice modeled after elk. Their conclusions were that there were sites where the folding of proteins between the two mice types did not match up that "may" act as a barrier or slow down the processes necessary to force them together.
I am not a biogeneticist, but based on my read of it, it sounds like they are saying it will not easily cross over and cause CJD, not that it can't. And that the time necessary to make the crossover may be very long. I don't find any of that surprising. CJD is very rare for a reason, so finding that making CWD cause CJD in a mice model has obstacles and barriers that make it difficult would be expected.
Whether to eat infected venison is indeed a personal choice. But whether to risk infecting the entire deer herd of the state by transporting potentially infected deer to new properties shouldn't be a for profit based decision.
Agreed. My personal choice is I don't have a problem eating it based on current science/research, but I realize I am in the minority and strongly echo your 2nd sentence. Continuing the artificial transportation of deer is crazy given the risk.txags92 said:montanagriz said:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4396485/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1IQKZ979HL7oAc_G84eFOKC8EttuLuVMPTO4TyygNRqVZC0teEOMb7CoU_aem_ATZvdDo20UnpAVMfRI77md0ODhDZHzAljKdP5C1unIEtn2GzhiRFYd4i_fLOJOTnYs9cxIlTzTIIwInNxjFLuuHl
A peer reviewed research showing cwd prions cant cross into humans if looking for a read. No, i wouldnt eat cwd deer meat,nor any sick animal knowingly. However, i wouldnt test it either before eating if when i killed the animal it looked healthy out of fear of getting cwd.
However, whatever a person decides to do with their body is their choice if not harming/killing someone else (abortion). Just wanted to share this peer reviewed article that popped up on my facebook feed involving rats and cwd etc
I think you are overselling what the study concluded when you say "cwd can't cross into humans". The study (from 2015) uses genetically modified mice modeled after humans to compare affects of exposure to other genetically modified mice modeled after elk. Their conclusions were that there were sites where the folding of proteins between the two mice types did not match up that "may" act as a barrier or slow down the processes necessary to force them together.
I am not a biogeneticist, but based on my read of it, it sounds like they are saying it will not easily cross over and cause CJD, not that it can't. And that the time necessary to make the crossover may be very long. I don't find any of that surprising. CJD is very rare for a reason, so finding that making CWD cause CJD in a mice model has obstacles and barriers that make it difficult would be expected.
Whether to eat infected venison is indeed a personal choice. But whether to risk infecting the entire deer herd of the state by transporting potentially infected deer to new properties shouldn't be a for profit based decision.
I have no problem with people making their own risk decisions like that. It is no different than people choosing to skydive, drive alcohol, or other activities with associated risks. For me, I have MS, so my immune system is already active in my brain attacking the myelin. I won't take the risk of letting something else in there to play by eating CWD contaminated venison.harge57 said:Agreed. My personal choice is I don't have a problem eating it based on current science/research, but I realize I am in the minority and strongly echo your 2nd sentence. Continuing the artificial transportation of deer is crazy given the risk.txags92 said:montanagriz said:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4396485/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1IQKZ979HL7oAc_G84eFOKC8EttuLuVMPTO4TyygNRqVZC0teEOMb7CoU_aem_ATZvdDo20UnpAVMfRI77md0ODhDZHzAljKdP5C1unIEtn2GzhiRFYd4i_fLOJOTnYs9cxIlTzTIIwInNxjFLuuHl
A peer reviewed research showing cwd prions cant cross into humans if looking for a read. No, i wouldnt eat cwd deer meat,nor any sick animal knowingly. However, i wouldnt test it either before eating if when i killed the animal it looked healthy out of fear of getting cwd.
However, whatever a person decides to do with their body is their choice if not harming/killing someone else (abortion). Just wanted to share this peer reviewed article that popped up on my facebook feed involving rats and cwd etc
I think you are overselling what the study concluded when you say "cwd can't cross into humans". The study (from 2015) uses genetically modified mice modeled after humans to compare affects of exposure to other genetically modified mice modeled after elk. Their conclusions were that there were sites where the folding of proteins between the two mice types did not match up that "may" act as a barrier or slow down the processes necessary to force them together.
I am not a biogeneticist, but based on my read of it, it sounds like they are saying it will not easily cross over and cause CJD, not that it can't. And that the time necessary to make the crossover may be very long. I don't find any of that surprising. CJD is very rare for a reason, so finding that making CWD cause CJD in a mice model has obstacles and barriers that make it difficult would be expected.
Whether to eat infected venison is indeed a personal choice. But whether to risk infecting the entire deer herd of the state by transporting potentially infected deer to new properties shouldn't be a for profit based decision.
And the hits keep on coming
https://texasfarmbureau.org/cwd-detected-in-edwards-county-deer-breeding-facility/
https://texasfarmbureau.org/cwd-detected-in-edwards-county-deer-breeding-facility/
Shocking.rab79 said:
And the hits keep on coming
https://texasfarmbureau.org/cwd-detected-in-edwards-county-deer-breeding-facility/
harge57
Joined:
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Posts:
9,493
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Reminder that TPW Commission meeting is on May 23 and thar the breeders will be out in force to pitch their view. Better to show up in person, but you con comment online here on two different actions
https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/feedback/public_comment/proposals/202405_cwd_rules.phtml
https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/feedback/public_comment/proposals/202405_cwd_zones.phtml
https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/feedback/public_comment/proposals/202405_cwd_rules.phtml
https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/feedback/public_comment/proposals/202405_cwd_zones.phtml
Unfortunately I will not be in town or I would be there for sure.CivilEng08 said:
Reminder that TPW Commission meeting is on May 23 and thar the breeders will be out in force to pitch their view. Better to show up in person, but you con comment online here on two different actions
https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/feedback/public_comment/proposals/202405_cwd_rules.phtml
https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/feedback/public_comment/proposals/202405_cwd_zones.phtml
https://www.chron.com/news/article/deer-killed-texas-ranch-19491202.php
They killed 249 of his deer......he has lost the fight.
They killed 249 of his deer......he has lost the fight.
It's a shame that the number of positive CWD cases were allowed to get so high that the depopulation had to happen on this particular property.
Even the Texas Deer Association supported the depop.
Even the Texas Deer Association supported the depop.
Any disease that takes years to manifest and absolutely kills its host with no known method of control or cure should be considered dangerous, because anything that cannot be controlled and kills is, by definition, dangerous.montanagriz said:schmellba99 said:
I see you follow Kroll. He has significant stakes in breeding operations and is highly biased. He also picks the numbers and words he uses very carefully.
CWD has been known since the 60's, and it was almost exclusively limited to western states and in mule deer and elk. In Texas, there was a couple of cases of it being detected - all in mule deer IIRC - in the panhandle and maybe way out in El Paso area.
Then deer breeding became a thing and all of a sudden multiple cases pop up along the 35 corridor - where, coincdentally, most deer breeding operations are located. Deer breeding is the single biggest - not the only cause, but the single biggest by far - contributing factor to the spread of the disease and the numbers show it in spades.
https://instagr.am/p/Cs9JxLiupez
Im not here saying they didnt spread it. Hell, it could just be scrapies and around forever in the ground. Some think it mutated from sheep scrapies and is prevalent in ground where sheep were prevalent as a livestock. Discussion isnt who spreads it but is it really that dangerous. What makes it so dangerous compared to ehd? Have the deer herds not grown? Isnt the % low of deer that tested positive? Like less thsn 1%, just seems like covid scare when you look at numbers and see deer numbers increasing. Killing healthy deer isnt the answer, why would anyone think that is a great answer is beyond me
You can argue percentages all you want, but the absolute FACT of the matter is that deer breeding, and the subsequent transport of those deer, is the single biggest mechanism that spreads the prions. All because people think they need to shoot 37 point pen rased deer instead of being happy with the deer a specific region produces naturally.
There are a lot of things that may not be the answer - but one thing that IS an answer, or at the very least a massive positive contributing factor to an answer - is looking at hard numbers and realizing that raising deer in artificial environments that propogate the spread of a disease and provide conditions to which that disease obviously thrives, then taking those deer and transporting them to other areas knowing that they come from a condition where they have a high percentage of exposure to a non curable and fatal disease is absolutely NOT an answer. And that can be backed up with facts and hard data versus conjecture.
In any problem, you follow basic protocol to find the solution to the problem:
1. Identify the problem.
2. Analyze contributing factors or conditions
3. Establish a priority of elimitating, controlling/engineering or managing
4. Implement the plan
5. Re-analyze to determine if the plan works
We know the problem - CWD exists and is being spread. We know the primary contributing factor is pen raised deer and the transport of those pen raised deer from one area to another. We know that is a primary factor because the data bears it out. That puts us at Step 3, and there are apparently legions of people that want the process to just stop without any real solution, generally using things like "we don't know it's dangerous" or "the numbers are so small, why is everybody worrying" or "It's naturally occuring!" etc. That is not a solution, that is letting the issue fester and propogate, which is objectively just a piss poor mentality with, generally speaking, end results that are far worse than the current condition.
96ags said:.harge57 said:98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.96ags said:Irony at its finest.harge57 said:
The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.
Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.
Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.
We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.
This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.
This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.
Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.
This isn't some gotcha response. It's knowingly acknowledging having an issue yet looking skirt it and blame others.
This continued ignorance of ground zero is embarrassing for those involved.
Behold my shocked face…rab79 said:
And again...
https://texasfarmbureau.org/cwd-detected-in-trinity-county-deer-breeding-facility/
txags92 said:
Show me the money on the TPWD side.
Kleburg and Temple families both anti breeder. They struggle now to sell a 160" buck for &15,000 like they have for years.
You think the king ranch and others are motivated by individual hunts when they lease hundreds of thousands of acres out and can charge huge prices for those "160 inch" deer that are shot off those leases? Maybe they just know it is wrong and 20 years from now when it's all over the state (like it probably is now) they will be proven right.
Yea I think that they are. When you don't fill those leases at $15k/hunter that hunt those 160" deer, it's pure economics. Temple is high fence but sells same product.
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