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So we are going to Philmont..

10,903 Views | 60 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by YankeeAg05
chucktheaggiejeweler
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When I was in Boy Scouts, the one year I had the time and the money to go to Philmont, we ended up going to the Seabase in Florida. While that was absolutely a great trip, I told myself I would take my future sons to Philmont one day. My 22-year-old had to go without me, as we had a brand new baby, the year he was going.

I'm up this time! I'm taking my sons who will be 16 and 15 when we depart in June.

Talk to me Outdoor Board.

More urgently, I would love to have recommendations on footwear. What have you worn that worked well? Did you go one half size bigger than you normally do? What socks… You name it.

What did you use and really like?

I look forward to hearing from y'all!

Gig 'Em!
God's Peace,
Chuck

Fifth C Jewelry
BigO93
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Congrats on the Philmont trip, it's awesome. My son & I wore Merrill gore Tex boots 1/2 size larger than our normal boot size, with synthetic sock liners and good wool socks. Bring a couple of more pairs of socks than they tell you, you will appreciate having them on the trail. Break in those boots early. Glad we did, those on the trek that didn't had more blisters than I thought humanly possible.
AgDad121619
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Only advice I have is try a bunch of different brands until you find the pair that feels right and then walk in them everyday until they are broken in. I had no blisters on my trek with oldest son.

Back in 2004, I found a pair of Montrails that fit like a glove with a medium weight wool sock (no liner). They lasted ten years and when I got ready for a new pair, they only made women's boots. I have a pair of Lowas for elk hunting that would work for Philmont but I don't think you have to spend as much as I did to find a good pair
dmart90
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Spend an afternoon in REI and try on a bunch of different shoes. I wore a pair of Asolo GTX boots. But that was 12 years ago.

Don't skimp on boots or sleep system (bag and pad) is my advice.
mpl35
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I would never go with goretex. Feet sweat. Water goes over the top. Then they don't dry out. I like a nice trail runner. Have fun
chucktheaggiejeweler
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I have a pair of Timberlands I love and wear all the time, but they are my actual size. They also have deer blood stains all over, and I don't want to get eaten by a bear.
God's Peace,
Chuck

Fifth C Jewelry
Jack Ruby
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Find a nice scraping stick.

Preferably one not too close to a field latrine.
agsalaska
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Not a gortex fan for NM.

I am just going to throw something out there. And I have never been to Philmont but have spent dozens of days/nights camping and hiking in the immediate vicinity(though it was mostly in the 1990's).

I wore football cleats. Nike Sharks. If I was going back there today I would go to Academy and buy another pair. I actually look occasionally to see if they are still made and they are, though sometimes called something different. But I have hiked hundreds of New Mexico miles in football cleats.

They are better than soccer cleats because of the front cleat.

Pro Sandy
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Chaco sandals. But the BSA requires closed toe, so wear socks with them.

Best padding for sleeping is the foamie in your tent at base camp. Just borrow it for the 10 days and return it when done.

You'll want to supplement the food they give you, I recommend good ol fashion dutch oven cooking. You can put the dutch oven in the bottom of your pack.

Save weight by leaving the map and compass behind. You'll have your phone so just use it. If you lose signal, just run to the top of a ridge. If the battery dies, you can just follow the trail signs.

Since you'll have your phone, a Bluetooth speaker is a must. Get one that clips to your backpack so you can share the beat with the other hikers.

You aren't climbing Mt Everest, so pay no attention to those who talk about prepping for elevation. Those docs are from Kansas, so they don't know much about the mountains anyway.

The chow hall is some of the best the Scouts has to offer. When you get off the trail, fight the temptation to go to the Creamery or Outback Pizza and make sure the boys eat some more of the camper mess hall.
mpl35
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That's a joke, right?
Pro Sandy
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mpl35 said:

That's a joke, right?
I worked as a Ranger for two summers including Rayado, so I think I know what I'm talking about.
Stringfellow Hawke
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I am a fan of any shoe/boot with a wide toe box. This is one of many companies that make them. Use the promo code "string" for nothing off…

https://xeroshoes.com/shop/product-category/boots-mens/
mpl35
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Ok. Isn't a compass and map a part of the learning experience? Not to mention on of the 10 essentials? Relying on an electronic device seems like bad advice when training the Boy Scouts.

And it's just complete jackassery to suggest taking a damn speaker out in nature in a backpacking trip. "Share" with your fellow hikers is noise pollution and ruining nature to many outdoorsmen.

jdc98
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We went on a 12 day trek last summer.

I wore Lowa Renegade GTX and was super happy with them. I Saw several rangers and cons folks wearing the same.

For hiking boots I buy 1/2 size up for room for thick socks and liners. Several in our crew wore trail runners or low-top hiking shoes. I thought about trail runners as the Philmont trails are typically great condition. However, I knew we were going over Baldy which has a lot of loose rock that I wanted more ankle support.

Went on 2 treks in my youth and then was a Ranger for couple summers while at A&M. Being able to go back to Philmont with my son was an awesome experience.

Good shoes, good rain gear, & good fitting pack are the most important gear.

Let me know if you have any questions. I am already looking forward to next trip in summer '25.

IWTGBTP

Pro Sandy
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Cutting weight is key above all else. Don't worry about some essential list. Probably written by some young buck ranger.

Music had long been a scouting tradition. But most scouts don't get their music merit badge, so you don't want to hear them sing. Canned music better.
Pro Sandy
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Yeah the older I've gotten, the more I've appreciated ankle support and hiking sticks! And powder for overnights for both feet and other essential areas
AgRyan04
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Altra Lone Peak trail runners and Darn Tough Socks are all I've hiked in for the last 3 or 4 years and no blisters.
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mpl35
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Please don't take this advice. Nothing personal but it is the worst advice I've seen on here in a while. I know that philmont isn't a federal controlled park or wilderness area but there is a reason that parks are banning the damn speakers that are obnoxious and ruin the experience. National parks and wilderness areas have been banning speakers because of how obnoxious they are to others.

Be courteous. Leave no trace. Don't ruin others enjoyment.
Pro Sandy
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mpl35 said:

Please don't take this advice. I know that philmont isn't a federal controlled park or wilderness area but there is a reason that parks are banning the damn speakers that are obnoxious and ruin the experience. National parks and wilderness areas have been banning speakers because of how obnoxious they are to others.

Be courteous. Leave no trace. Don't ruin others enjoyment.
Come on now, the chacos and socks is at least some good advice
mpl35
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That's fine. Hell I think the map and compass should be required but that's fine too I guess. The ****ing Speaker. I swear that's as bad as the off leash dog person that lets their dog crap and refuses to pick it because it's biodegradable and a plastic crap bag isn't.


I'm going to go find that things that piss me off thread…
Kyle Field Shade Chaser
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You may already know but a good chunk of philmont burned down in a massive fire a couple years ago. May not be as beautiful as it was in the past right now.
rwtxag83
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Merrell Moab Boots. Different heights to suit you, low, mid, and 8". Very comfortable, tough as nails. I've worn them for years.
Greater love hath no man than this....
CapeAggie89
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Damm Tough socks worked best for my trek.
Merrell Moab Boots, mid height.

Other advice is to train with weight as much as possible. Hard to get elevation change in this part of Texas so go climb some parking garages with weight or go do your high school and go up and down the bleachers as much as possible.

It is usually not the scouts that slow things down or are the problem, it is the adults.

I found a lot of good information and helpful people on this facebook page:


Philmont Trek Talk - Prep, News, Info


Also, take your backpack to REI and get it fitted. You don't have to buy it from REI, they will fit any backpack.
milner79
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dmart90 said:

Spend an afternoon in REI and try on a bunch of different shoes. I wore a pair of Asolo GTX boots. But that was 12 years ago.

Don't skimp on boots or sleep system (bag and pad) is my advice.
Glad you had a good experience with Asolo. I did not. Spent a good amount of money on a pair, wore them for a couple of backpacking/climbing trips, and had the heals disintegrate in a short amount of time. Never again.

Own Merrill Moabs now. For half the price of the Asolos I am in a pair of no-nonsense boots that work just fine.
TAM85
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I like hiking in low top boots. I had a pair of Merell Moab, and wore them out and now have Hoka. I also have Lowa Renegade GTX, high top. I went a full size larger which will keep your toes from hitting the front of the boot on long down hills.

I am not a fan of sock liners; just wear different thickness wool socks, I would take medium thickness and take one pair that are thicker. If it will be especially hot I may take a pair of light wool socks. To keep pack weight down I plan to wear socks and underwear for 3 days. If you have wool socks and underwear you can rinse/wash them and they will be dry by the time you change them out.

Pro-tip: if your wool shirt, socks or underwear are not quite dry wear them in your sleeping bag overnight and your body heat will dry them. I prefer wool over dry-fit clothing.

For training once or twice a week carry close to you pack weight (work up to it if you have to), including water weight, and do lunges up and down hills. It makes the hiking much easier when your legs and core are strong enough to handle the up hill and down hills. Also look at your itinerary to see about how many miles you will hike on an average day and get that milage in with a pack once or twice a week. If you are a bit heavy work to get your weight down before you. There iis no need to carry that extra weight up and down hills. Think of it as lightening your pack.

I only trained on consecutive days on the weekend because I was concerned about getting a repetitive use injury during training.
AgDad121619
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I'm sure you forgot to say cast iron Dutch oven - the aluminum ones aren't as efficiency in the back country with natural fire coals at. Elevation
CT'97
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You are going in June, which is still spring in the Rockies and highly variable weather. When in June are you arriving? Most of the info below I put together for previous Philmont treks, I've been blessed to do 4 in the last 5 years, so some will apply, and some won't.

You are already thinking in the right direction and that's boots and foot care. Everything else can go wrong with your gear but if your feet are in good shape, you will be fine. You might be cold and wet and tired, but you will walk out and be fine.

Start by buying some good socks. Darn Tough, Smartwool or other merino wool blend socks with 75%+ wool in them. I personally like the light hiker from Darn Tough but have smartwool in a similar weight that have lasted for years of backpacking all over the country. Take your socks with you when you try on boots.

For summer backpacking in the southern Rockies go with a low top non-waterproof boot. The Merrell Moab is kind of go to for this but Keen, Oboz, Solomon, Hoka all make good boots that fit this description and I advise everyone to try on as many as you can till you find something that fits your feet.

You want a non-gortex boot so your boots will dry faster. Your feet will be happier if your boots dry fast and dry feet don't blister as bad as damp feet.

My only caveat to this is if you are going early in June and need to be prepared for snow and cold rain. If you have an early trek a waterproof mid-height boot and extra socks is the best option.

The Philmont packing list is too heavy and has too much in it, IMO. Take everything on the list to Philmont with you but watch the weather forecast for your trek and only take on the trail what you will need based on your weather while you are there. Excessive insulating layers and extra sets of clothes add up to weight and volume. There is a huge difference between an early June trek where you will be waking up to 30-degree mornings and possibly hiking in cold rain or snow and a late July trek where you will be seeing 50 degree mornings and hiking in afternoon thunderstorms that instantly dry out in less than 10% humidity.

If you are going with the crew I think you are going with you are in good hands and I may be stopping by as you get closer to talk through gear and packing.
CT'97
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This is all solid information. That facebook group is good, but take it with a grain of salt and trust your instincts. There are some on there putting out information based on a single experience as though that's what happens on every single trek. Just be careful of the knee jerk reactions.
SupermachJM
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Merrill MOAB Boots
Bring Hot Sauce or Seasoning because the food can be pretty bland
Don't try to do Black Mountain the day before you do the Tooth, if you do, you're gonna have a bad time.
Pack sock liners and use them
Our crew got to Taos 3 nights early and spent the first two days acclimating. We climbed Wheeler peak (highest in NM) the first day as a day hike and then did some fun activities day 2 like mountain biking and river rafting. It was a good way to get used to the altitude.
Take a small inflatable mattress, or at least a small pillow. Quality of sleep goes way up.
Whatever equipment you use, make sure it is broken in before you go. Nothing worse than a new pack that you don't know rubs you the wrong way until Mile 6 the first day.
ccard257
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Sandy, you're killing me... Why even take a cell phone to navigate? I used to always say "you're not lost if you don't care where you are" and "all trails lead to somewhere." You can see some pretty cool spots on the ranch when you combine those two. "we're not night hiking, we're just late arriving" may also come in handy.

I was never as good a ranger as ProSandy was so take my advice with some salt tabs.

I'm not sure exactly what "going up a 1/2 size from normal" means when it comes to boots. Try them on with the socks you will be hiking in or something similar and get what fits. Might be what you normally wear, might be bigger, might be smaller. Don't just arbitrarily "go bigger" or you'll spend more time putting on moleskin than hiking. My hiking boots tend to be the same size as my running shoes, which tend to be a 1/2 size bigger than dress shoes or a full size bigger than boots, but I say "tend to" as it varies by brand.

That said, I wouldn't be wearing boots at philmont if I went back this year. I'd be in trail runners with some lightweight wool socks and call it a day. The trails are generally in good shape and not super steep, gear is stupid light now so 50+ pound packs are a thing of the past (or should be), and I'm a firm believer in the "pound on your feet is 5 on your back" theory. Lots of people feel differently so do what works for you. Another vote for no gortex though, unless maybe if you are the first week or two when it may still be a little cold/muddy.

Any sock from a reputable company (smartwool, darn tough, rei, etc.) that is wool and marketed as "hiking" or "light hiking" will be fine. Don't get some super thick/warm mountaineering socks. Liners are a personal preference. I don't wear them unless it is stupid cold, others won't leave the house without them. 3 pairs is plenty and you could get by with 2.

My biggest piece of gear advice if you are not a frequent backpacker is that the new generation of sleeping pads are amazing. They inflate to 3-4" thick, are comfortable for side sleepers like me, allow for easy small adjustments to get the firmness just right, and still pack down the size of a coke can and barely weigh anything. I like Nemo for a price/performance sweetspot, REI may still have them on sale. Be sure to get a compatible pump sack if the one you get doesn't already include one.

I've also become a big fan of backpacking quilts. Comfort/weight/packability...there's no going back. I have a 40 degree one from enlightened equipment. It keeps me plenty comfy down into the upper 30s (I do sleep warm) and is what I would grab if I were headed to philmont.

Pro Sandy
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All my above advice is based on real life events. Numerous PhilSARs have occurred from some of those things. Completely agree with CCard that you have to find what works for you. Try things out. I have a closet full of things that I tried once and decided I didn't like.

Chacos, for some reason half the rangers like to wear them backpacking, but BSA rules do mandate closed toes, so chacos with socks is the solution. Shoes though, that's critical. You have to do what is comfortable for you, don't skimp. Ankle support, you'll see people go both ways. I've found the older I get, the more I need it. If I am doing day hiking, sure, my trail runners are fine. But when I put weight on or hit the mountains, I prefer that ankle support.

Padding, buddy of mine legit did that with one crew. Just took his foamie, rolled it up and strapped it to the outside of his pack. Quite a sight to see going down the trail. But when you are out for just two nights, you can do fun things. I haven't found a sleeping system I like yet, except my cot which doesn't help on the trail. I've tried some inflatables , tried z-rest, tried combining, and just haven't been pleased yet. Interested to see what CCard is using.

Sleeping bag, I haven't had issues with. My main concern is just size in the bag. Summer at Philmont, by the time the crews are there, unless you are in the Baldy Country, typically upper 30s, low 40s. I would use a 2 season bag and be fine. I later started using just a blanket. Interested in the quilt, CCard. Is it just a flat piece and you roll up in it?

I truly do want to punch people in the face who use bluetooth on the trail. I typically avoid the more social trails, but even mountain bikers are doing it. But using phones for guidance, people try it at Philmont. Did one SAR where a group of 4 boys went shwacking by themselves with a GPS. This was before we had these fancy smart phones, so it was the big GPS units. They didn't upload maps to it, so it was pretty useless. They didn't make it to camp that night and slept with no gear. No worse for wear, but the advisors took the brunt of it from Leadership. Learn the map and compass, don't trust the trail sign, and regular crews should not be shwacking.

Food, you'll lose weight. But don't worry, you'll gain it back afterwards. I was going lactose free when I worked there, so I typically brought my own food on the trail, but when you are hungry, anything tastes good. I don't remember complaints about the food on the trail. Camper dining hall though, ate there last summer one meal. It was atrocious. Take the boys to eat in town after their hike. Even the Cree Mee is better than Camper Dining Hall.

Elevation, you max out at 12,4, so it is super high, but a lot of people feel it, especially when you are hitting 10+. Mark Anderson used to be big on trying to get someone to do research on the effects of elevation at these more moderate elevations, but don't know if anyone has. Drink lots of water, that seems major key. And start hydrating early. They will take your blood pressure at medical. I keep ibuprofen for the headaches. A buddy of mine would take canned oxygen with him and take a few hits from it. That seems overkill. I think lots of water is great and if you can get to elevation for a shake down, that's good. Maybe beet juice? The doctors at the clinic are from Kansas.

Weather-wise, I never needed more than a fleece. This is me up on Little Costilla in July 2004.

Even earlier that summer when we did training up at Copper Park and there was still snow, my fleece was sufficient.

Later that summer I was doing the marathon and hit rain at Shaefers. I only put on a rain jacket, no pants, and that was a huge mistake. All that water caused real bad chaffing. Lesson, don't pick your clothes based on trying to be cool. Don't skimp on staying dry.

Enjoy the hike!
CapeAggie89
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CT'97 said:

This is all solid information. That facebook group is good, but take it with a grain of salt and trust your instincts. There are some on there putting out information based on a single experience as though that's what happens on every single trek. Just be careful of the knee jerk reactions.
Couldn't agree more. Take everything said here and elsewhere and figure out through your training what works for you and your crew. In the end it is you on the trail lugging all that stuff around and it has to work for you. I tried 6 different brands of socks until I settled on Darn Tough Socks. No blisters and feet stayed warm. But I tried liners, no liners, liners built in, multiple brands until I settled on one brand. Cannot stress more, find out what works for you in regards to equipment and train with weight.
ccard257
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Quote:

I only put on a rain jacket, no pants, and that was a huge mistake.
Indeed. You forgot your gaiters and thus lost style points.

We have a few different Nemo pads and have liked them all. This one is on sale for $89 and well worth it if you don't need an insulated pad. I just picked up the insulated version a couple weeks ago and spend 6 nights on it in Big Bend. It's not quite as comfy as this one which my wife has and I steal from time to time, but it is much smaller/lighter.

This is the quilt I have. When it's warm, open it up and use like a blanket. When it get's chilly, you can cinch/zip the footbox and strap it to the pad to keep drafts out. You will want a warm hat if pushing the rating. Not waking up in a puddle of sweat when it is on the warmer side is awesome. When it's too cold for the quilt, I put it over my kids in their bags and use my winter bag.

Pro Sandy
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Added the Nemo pad to my wish list that hopefully my wife will see come my birthday. I'll have to go check out the quilts at REI next time I'm near one.
SandyHookVA
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Lead advisor in '21 & '23.

It's the kid's trek. You are on vacation. Learn to brew really good coffee, bring it on your shakedowns, get up early with the other advisors, pack your stuff and SIT IN YOUR CHAIR drinking your coffee while your crew leader gets the crew up and rolling. It's their show - let them run it. Practice that now. I watched a 15 yr in their first real leadership role turn into a fantastic leader and a very diverse crew bond over 12 days last summer. That doesn't happen unless the advisors let them run the show.

Just get out and hike. Most Philmont days are < 10 miles. We were in camp by noon every day on a 84 mile trek. Biggest trail skill the kids need is the ability to pack up in a timely manner. Don't worry about the Philmont way of doing things like cooking and bear hangs - the ranger will teach the crew.

Can you pack a basketball in your pack in addition to your normal gear? Phil food is bulky and you have the required gear to carry. Don't use the Philmont pots. Two Fire Maple 6L pots from Ali Express are smaller, lighter and work just fine. Their tents are fine, but if you have lighter ones, take them.

We carried one white gas stove and one butane stove for advisor coffee.

Advisors will be your weak link. Make sure everyone takes their meds, and gets in shape. I left my blood pressure meds at base camp and paid dearly with altitude sickness. Almost was pulled from the trail...fortunately I was able to fake feeling better for the ranger. For someone in otherwise decent shape that backpacks 200+ miles per year, it was a eye opener.

The Ute Park burn scar is worth going through. From south to north. North to south will be pain for someone from a flat part of the country. Dean Skyline is underrated.

Enjoy. It's a very special place.


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