https://tpwd.texas.gov/newsmedia/releases/?req=20231215a



Proposed 3 fish limit with a 15-20 slot and one fish over 25.



The only biological justification for this would be if the trout population was in a recruit overfishing state which it is obviously not. In addition TPW has failed to assess the potential economic impact to coastal communities, guides and the boating industry. I am unsure of why Austin staff is pushing this because the field biologists do not support this regulation. I do have an opinion on why, but what is yours, and what do you think of the change.

Texas is always so restrictive. Goto Louisiana.

rab79 said:

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https://tpwd.texas.gov/newsmedia/releases/?req=20231215a



Proposed 3 fish limit with a 15-20 slot and one fish over 25.



The only biological justification for this would be if the trout population was in a recruit overfishing state which it is obviously not. In addition TPW has failed to assess the potential economic impact to coastal communities, guides and the boating industry. I am unsure of why Austin staff is pushing this because the field biologists do not support this regulation. I do have an opinion on why, but what is yours, and what do you think of the change.

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It's simply ridiculous.

I have no issue with a three trout limit, I do have an issue with the 15 to 20 inch slot. Unless there is a scientifically valid reason to protect trout between 20 and 25 inches, I don't see a reason to limit the harvest of this size fish. I do not believe for one minute that, reducing the limit of trout by two fish will negatively impact the coastal economy as it relates to recreational fishing. I believe that reducing the limits has positively impacted the fishery, trout numbers are healthy and recreational opportunities to catch solid, healthy fish as good as it has been. As someone who prefers to wade fish with artificial lures exclusively, and who prefers to focus on large trout in the winter, my opinion may be different than some who are more interested in filling, coolers and Ziploc bags with trout fillets. I also don't think that trophy trout numbers in the lower Laguna Madre are as good as they were before the freeze.

I'm curious as to what others may think?

Just more government control !

The LLM took a huge hit in regards to big trout with the freeze.

15 - 20 inch fish eat fine. Three is enough unless you are trying to feed a herd (I have 5 kids).

Killing one over 25" keeps tournaments happy, I guess.

I don't have a problem with it this year. Re-evaluate next year.

Catch your trout then go look for reds or drum to load up fillets.

As usual, politics supersedes practical solutions. Im for limiting croaker use and keeping the first 5 trout you catch.

I see a 3 trout limit having an impact on the redfish population.

Furlock Bones said:

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rab79 said:

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https://tpwd.texas.gov/newsmedia/releases/?req=20231215a



Proposed 3 fish limit with a 15-20 slot and one fish over 25.



The only biological justification for this would be if the trout population was in a recruit overfishing state which it is obviously not. In addition TPW has failed to assess the potential economic impact to coastal communities, guides and the boating industry. I am unsure of why Austin staff is pushing this because the field biologists do not support this regulation. I do have an opinion on why, but what is yours, and what do you think of the change.

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It's simply ridiculous.

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Same as cutting snow goose limit from 10 to 5 and ending conservation season. Texas is only state in central flyway proposing this.

My understanding is the guide community was in favor of the 3 fish limit. Personally, I think it should be whatever the fishery can handle.

I like the three trout limit. Heck I'd say none over 25. Way more people fishing the bays than there were 20-30 years ago. I don't usually keep many fish anyways and I would like to see the big trout days of old return. Maybe selfish on my part but I think it's the only way to see that fishery ever again.

LoneStarBQ said:

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Texas is always so restrictive. Goto Louisiana.

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They've cut their limits too and their trout fishery is a shambles these days. All the science shows their trout fishery is in bad, bad shape.

docb said:

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I like the three trout limit. Heck I'd say none over 25. Way more people fishing the bays than there were 20-30 years ago. I don't usually keep many fish anyways and I would like to see the big trout days of old return. Maybe selfish on my part but I think it's the only way to see that fishery ever again.

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I'm largely in this camp but I'm also not passionately convinced of it. Need to see more data.

What I would like to see is:
- banning croaker as bait and protecting it as a gamefish. Croaker used to commonly get to 2-3# and considered excellent table fare
- eliminate the bull red tag, they're garbage to eat and if you want a mount take pictures and get a fiberglass one
- more $$$ and effort spent on habitat conservation and restoration along with improving water quality
- as part of the second item, ban commercial harvest of oysters on public reefs; they're being destroyed
- more restrictions on commercial menhaden harvest

TarponChaser said:

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docb said:

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I like the three trout limit. Heck I'd say none over 25. Way more people fishing the bays than there were 20-30 years ago. I don't usually keep many fish anyways and I would like to see the big trout days of old return. Maybe selfish on my part but I think it's the only way to see that fishery ever again.

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I'm largely in this camp but I'm also not passionately convinced of it. Need to see more data.

What I would like to see is:
- banning croaker as bait and protecting it as a gamefish. Croaker used to commonly get to 2-3# and considered excellent table fare
- eliminate the bull red tag, they're garbage to eat and if you want a mount take pictures and get a fiberglass one
- more $$$ and effort spent on habitat conservation and restoration along with improving water quality
- as part of the second item, ban commercial harvest of oysters on public reefs; they're being destroyed
- more restrictions on commercial menhaden harvest

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Oyster ban for sure! *******s are picking at night now.

I would agree on all of this. Well said Tarpon.

Very good move by TPWD. I totally support we have seen such a decline in our trout and flounder in the previous years. Plus with the increase in fishing on the coast along with the outlaw commercial fishermen taking more than their share we need to limit everyone. Hopefully this move will secure fishing for my grandchildren in their lifetime.

Please let me also add that we need to make croaker a game fish and stop the slaughter of them by the commercial boys selling them as bait. I remember those large golden croakers I caught in the fall when they were running. I cannot remember the last time I observed one when fishing.

LoneStarBQ said:

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Texas is always so restrictive. Goto Louisiana.

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Louisiana trout fishing is great if you want to catch a bunch of 12-14 inch fish. I'd much rather see a 25-30 inch trout blow up on my topwater.

docb said:

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LoneStarBQ said:

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Texas is always so restrictive. Goto Louisiana.

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Louisiana trout fishing is great if you want to catch a bunch of 12-14 inch fish. I'd much rather see a 25-30 inch trout blow up on my topwater.

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And if you believe the studies, they've removed so many small trout (not to mention the big one) from the ecosystem that they no longer have enough fish of breeding size to replace what is being taken out.

Which is why they lowered their bag limits, increased the bottom end of the slot (to allow more than one spawn), and eliminated guide limits.

TarponChaser said:

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docb said:

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LoneStarBQ said:

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Texas is always so restrictive. Goto Louisiana.

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Louisiana trout fishing is great if you want to catch a bunch of 12-14 inch fish. I'd much rather see a 25-30 inch trout blow up on my topwater.

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And if you believe the studies, they've removed so many small trout (not to mention the big one) from the ecosystem that they no longer have enough fish of breeding size to replace what is being taken out.

Which is why they lowered their bag limits, increased the bottom end of the slot (to allow more than one spawn), and eliminated guide limits.

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Honestly with the Big Lake meat haul that's been going on for years I'm amazed it took that long for it to happen. I am sure they are suffering the same thing with just simply too may fish being taken out. I'm glad to see they have changed the limits there too. That place is a special fishery all its own and I always wondered what would happen if they tightened things up. Luckily specked trout can bounce back fairly quick.

Ag83 said:

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My understanding is the guide community was in favor of the 3 fish limit. Personally, I think it should be whatever the fishery can handle.

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Maybe the trophy guides, the rest of the guides that depend on day trips from San Antonio, Austin etc. aren't happy at all. They are anticipating a reduction in bookings because why drive to the coast and hire a guide for 3 fish? TPW also has no hard data on the impact on saltwater license sales, if they were really concerned about the economic impact they would have added questions to harvest surveys on what the impact of the proposed changes would have on fishing participation.

rab79 said:

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Ag83 said:

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My understanding is the guide community was in favor of the 3 fish limit. Personally, I think it should be whatever the fishery can handle.

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Maybe the trophy guides, the rest of the guides that depend on day trips from San Antonio, Austin etc. aren't happy at all. They are anticipating a reduction in bookings because why drive to the coast and hire a guide for 3 fish? TPW also has no hard data on the impact on saltwater license sales, if they were really concerned about the economic impact they would have added questions to harvest surveys on what the impact of the proposed changes would have on fishing participation.

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My thought is that if a person is not willing to go fishing because they can only keep 3 fish versus 5 then they shouldn't go fishing anyways. They should go to HEB and buy some fish. It would be cheaper for them.

These threads just deteriorate into everyone's personal opinion. Which should be the exact opposite of managing the fishery.

If the point is managing public resources than the result should be whatever the most access to the public through the loosest restrictions / limits that allow for the target species to continue to thrive.

Personal ego or beliefs of how a target species should be taken shouldn't be part if the decision process. Nor should commercial fishing take precedent over the general population.


Louisiana isn't a good example at all and becoming more and more an example as to why regulation is needed.

3 trout limit with none over 25 if I had my way.

I'll never see it, but Cliff Webb tells a story on the Speckled Truth podcast about catching a 10 trout stringer all over 30". Talks abt sight casting them and having to pull the lure out the way of 28s to catch the 30s. Jeez what I wouldn't do to experience that.

As an aside, I caught a tagged one last weekend.

rab79 said:

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Ag83 said:

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My understanding is the guide community was in favor of the 3 fish limit. Personally, I think it should be whatever the fishery can handle.

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Maybe the trophy guides, the rest of the guides that depend on day trips from San Antonio, Austin etc. aren't happy at all. They are anticipating a reduction in bookings because why drive to the coast and hire a guide for 3 fish? TPW also has no hard data on the impact on saltwater license sales, if they were really concerned about the economic impact they would have added questions to harvest surveys on what the impact of the proposed changes would have on fishing participation.

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I'm not sure I buy that. The guides from Pensacola down to Panama City have more bookings than they can handle all summer long and they almost never keep trout and have stricter limits, IIRC.

But those guys run 2-3 trips per day in the summer and stay booked just because people want to take their kids, wet a line, and get bit. They'll run a trip from 6-10am, 11-3, and then from like 4-6pm and charge $700 for a 4 hour trip.

Im a full time guide on the Upper (and Middle) coast. I guide 190- 250 days a year or so. Following legal limits, we have no impact on the fishery by rod and reel. At all.

Habitat loss and commercial impactors have the greatest affects on the fish.

If they had the habitat, nothing we could do by rod and reel would have any impact on numbers.

Raping down the oyster reefs, giant shipping channels changing hydrology affecting the freshwater/saltwater exchange, bulkheads everywhere, loss of marsh grasses, etc....

Now I will emphasize I would be allllll for a reduction in limits if the commercial impactors had a proportionally equal hit to their operations and restoration etc..... BUT the recreational fisherman is the only one to always take that hit. Every limit change leads right to the next limit change.....and the fish numbers just keep declining.

Case in point.... the shut down flounder fishing....Zero take during Nov 1 thru Dec 14th.......but they don't stop dredging channels and passes.... come awn now. Ever seen the flounder blown thru a dredge pipe? It is staggering! Way way more than you can imagine.....yet we can't keep any.....and right there where you know you fish cuz the flounder are there but cant cuz season is closed. Right there is the dredge machinery sucking up everything rolling thru there.

How has catch and release only helped the Goliath grouper or sawfish in Texas?

TPWD own presentation said the average angler only catches two.... so they can change the limit from 5 to 2 or 3 or 10 or 100 and the average angler is still only going to catch about two. So this limit change won't change that.

They ain't ever never gonna make croaker a game fish ever. So forget about that. If you really want to change that maybe push for a croaker limit.....maybe 10 per person or whatever. That would prevent the guides getting 15 dozen croaker for a trip etc.

Every dolphin you see and every dolphin you don't see will eat more trout today than you can catch on rod and reel in a month. Let's get some tags on them jokers...

Mother nature can easily right that ship if we would limit commercial impactors, limit habitat degradation, limit poor water quality so the oyster can come back..... instead they ONLY focus on recreational anglers who have the least impact of all. And because we love it we bend over and take it. Stop doing that. Take a stand and push for them to hit some other real impactors.

You have a lot of valid points and I'll admit this might not be the best reasoning but if cutting limits prevents meat-haul googans from stuffing their freezer with filets that go uneaten and forgotten about until the next trip months later and the old bag of freezer-burned filets thrown out for a new bag of filets.

Lather, rinse, and repeat.

So if we can cut back on that waste I'm for it.

TarponChaser said:

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You have a lot of valid points and I'll admit this might not be the best reasoning but if cutting limits prevents meat-haul googans from stuffing their freezer with filets that go uneaten and forgotten about until the next trip months later and the old bag of freezer-burned filets thrown out for a new bag of filets.

Lather, rinse, and repeat.

So if we can cut back on that waste I'm for it.

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One heck of a straw man you have there.

rab79 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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You have a lot of valid points and I'll admit this might not be the best reasoning but if cutting limits prevents meat-haul googans from stuffing their freezer with filets that go uneaten and forgotten about until the next trip months later and the old bag of freezer-burned filets thrown out for a new bag of filets.

Lather, rinse, and repeat.

So if we can cut back on that waste I'm for it.

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One heck of a straw man you have there.

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Not really. There are plenty of studies showing this is standard operating procedure for most people.

I'm not on Facebook or any other social media....but I've seen the pictures.

You see massive dock stacks of dead fish every every every day alllllllll over YouTwitFace celebrated and high fives. Every day.

Then you see freeze kill pics on the very rare occasion.

It's the same picture. One is celebrated daily.....one is super rare doom and gloom and we all must save the fish for the rest of our lives. Same picture.

If I could star this ten thousand times, I would.

If I could star this a MILLION times, I would.

To illustrate my point.... these fish are made to do what they do and made to recover from mother nature easily.

To solidify that in your mind let's take TPWD stocking program for example. According to TPWD their own numbers.....the number of fingerlings they stock are sustainable and however X times more than the annual take by recreational anglers.

Let's look at the numbers. TPWD stocked:
Redfish - 822,000,000
Trout - 148,000,000
Flounder - 820,000

Those numbers sound incredible! .....to the uneducated. But the reality of it is that the equivalent in mother nature is as follows:
Redfish - 822million is same spawn of approx 20 fish
Trout - 148million is same spawn of a few trout(one fish can release 9,000,000 eggs per spawning event and spawn every 10 days in good conditions - ONE).
Flounder - 820,000 is approx half the spawn of one natural flounder

I will now stress I'm a huge supporter of TPWD and as far as coastal fisheries they lead the way. Big time. But their restocking program is also a drop in the pan compared to what mother nature can do.

Finally, by TPWD owns numbers, Texas recreational fisherman harvest approximately 9,000,000 Trout per year.....so scan the numbers above again real quick and show me where rod and reel has any effect.

TarponChaser said:

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You have a lot of valid points and I'll admit this might not be the best reasoning but if cutting limits prevents meat-haul googans from stuffing their freezer with filets that go uneaten and forgotten about until the next trip months later and the old bag of freezer-burned filets thrown out for a new bag of filets.

Lather, rinse, and repeat.

So if we can cut back on that waste I'm for it.

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And this kind of stereotype reasoning has no place in determining regulations for the public good. No one is more important than their neighbor. No different than fly fishing is no more honorable or heroic than gigging. It's this egotistical one uptness, not the left that ultimately is going to erode hunting and fishing rights until we get back to feudalism ways of only the nobles having the right.

You seem to be leaving out survival rates to maturity in those numbers. There's a reason each fish has to supply a galaxy of stars worth of fry.