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New Cartridge for AR platform

4,101 Views | 31 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by '03ag
TheMemeGuy
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Don't know if it's been posted yet. 6MM MAX

Kind of an interesting take on the 556 cartridge, could be a great round I think

JeremiahJohnson
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Interesting...SOLGW with it is promising. They make good stuff. Would be a great coyote cartridge.
TheMemeGuy
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Kind of my thoughts as well, could be a good intermediate cartridge
schmellba99
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Doesn't seem to get much love on arfcom

What is the difference between this and the 6x45 cartridge that never took off?
CactusThomas
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Ecclesiastes 1:9
JeremiahJohnson
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More powder capacity - 35 grains vs 28 grains on the 6x45. Looks like they acheived it by forming the straight wall 350 legend vs just expanding the 5.56.

"Cartridge designers have struggled with 2.26 OAL, and having enough room for increased case capacity. Until recently, there hasn't been a .378 case head cartridge available that has a 35 gr water capacity. This amount of water capacity is the engine that can power heavier, and high ballistics coefficient bullets up to 100 grs. The 6mm MAX can do this within the constraints of the AR-15, and function flawlessly. So the end result is that the 6mm MAX can push bullets 55 gr to 100 gr, and do it with the same 2.30 OAL. Some designs have emerged shorter and fatter to accommodate a bullet with better BC and enough powder for useful velocities. When comparing the water capacity of 24 Nosler (29 grs), 6.8 SPC (35 grs), 5.56 x45 NATO (28.5 grs), 645 (29 grs), 6 ARC (34 grs), 6.5 Grendel (35 grs), .224 Valkyrie (34.5 grs), and what do we get? For the cartridges with .378 case head, powder capacity is less than the 6mm MAX. For the cartridges with larger case heads, you get the same amount of powder or less than the 6mm MAX. The end result is that the 6mm MAX (35 grs) allows for a .378 mil-spec bolt face with full lug integrity and powder to push the heavies at useful velocities."
Oyster DuPree
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Matthew 21:17
NRH ag 10
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Looks like it's designed for midweight 6mm bullets vs the longer/higher BC options the 6mm ARC case was made for. I'm not sure if it's giving you that much vs a 5.56 with 77gr tipped matchkings or 73gr ELDMs.
TheMemeGuy
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What
TheMemeGuy
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Why
schmellba99
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Straight walled cases are far more prone to extraction issues than tapered cases. There is a reason almost all semi-auto rifle chamberings that have survived long term or have been adopted by the militaries of the world have tapered cases - because they are simply more reliable in much more adverse conditions.
Oyster DuPree
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TheVarian said:

Why

Yeah… think about it.
CS78
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schmellba99 said:

Straight walled cases are far more prone to extraction issues than tapered cases. There is a reason almost all semi-auto rifle chamberings that have survived long term or have been adopted by the militaries of the world have tapered cases - because they are simply more reliable in much more adverse conditions.


Thats always been the gospel and one of the great attributes of the AK.

Do we know of any weapons or calibers having actual problems in modern guns? Maybe it's a non issue for the average citizen but a deal breaker in battle?

Id like to see 350 legend necked down to 30 cal with a focus on full power 110-125 grain loads. Ignore the long projectile end of things. Larger case capacity and higher velocity than 300bo.
TheMemeGuy
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Nah, take it to the religion board.
JeremiahJohnson
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schmellba99 said:

Straight walled cases are far more prone to extraction issues than tapered cases. There is a reason almost all semi-auto rifle chamberings that have survived long term or have been adopted by the militaries of the world have tapered cases - because they are simply more reliable in much more adverse conditions.



They took the 350 legend and tapered it to 6mm. It is not a straight walled cartridge.
schmellba99
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JeremiahJohnson said:

schmellba99 said:

Straight walled cases are far more prone to extraction issues than tapered cases. There is a reason almost all semi-auto rifle chamberings that have survived long term or have been adopted by the militaries of the world have tapered cases - because they are simply more reliable in much more adverse conditions.



They took the 350 legend and tapered it to 6mm. It is not a straight walled cartridge.


Quote:

The .350 Legend, also called 350 LGND (943mm), is a SAAMI-standardized[2] straight-walled intermediate rifle cartridge developed by Winchester Repeating Arms.
schmellba99
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Dunno. I personally have seen extraction issues in an AR with the straight walled .450 Bushmaster.

Purely anecdotal, i know. Even with rounds that have a taper, but a very slight taper, i have had extraction problems at times with rounds that had weak brass, overpressure, etc.

I like the idea of a 6mm in a standard AR platform, a little more punch than a 5.56 is a good thing in most applications.
AnScAggie
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I'm still waiting to find a 6mm ARC and now it's already obsolete.
JeremiahJohnson
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I know 350 legend is straight walled. I own one.

Lost in translation I guess.

You asked what the difference was between 6x45 and 6 max. 6x45 expands a .223/5.56.

6 max starts at a blank cartridge like a 350 legend and necks it down to 6mm. So there is more powder capacity. It is not a straight walled cartridge.
El Chupacabra
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I really like my 6mm arc. Im always impressed with it every time I take it out. Itching to get it to tx to shoot some pigs at some point
JSKolache
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JeremiahJohnson said:

schmellba99 said:

Straight walled cases are far more prone to extraction issues than tapered cases. There is a reason almost all semi-auto rifle chamberings that have survived long term or have been adopted by the militaries of the world have tapered cases - because they are simply more reliable in much more adverse conditions.



They took the 350 legend and tapered it to 6mm. It is not a straight walled cartridge.
Full circle irony, I'll pass
schmellba99
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JeremiahJohnson said:

I know 350 legend is straight walled. I own one.

Lost in translation I guess.

You asked what the difference was between 6x45 and 6 max. 6x45 expands a .223/5.56.

6 max starts at a blank cartridge like a 350 legend and necks it down to 6mm. So there is more powder capacity. It is not a straight walled cartridge.
I guess you have me on a very small technicality.

But the fact remains that the case is a straight walled case, at least from the neck down. As in, it isn't fuggin tapered and both the case and the chamber are......wait for it.....straight walled. The problems and limitations of a straight walled cartridge are 100% an issue with this one....because the case is a straight walled case.

But you do you, carry on. Next I'll get told that a .38 isn't a straight walled cartridge either because it has a rim at the bottom.
JeremiahJohnson
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So you would consider this a straight walled cartridge?

Just curious. If I am wrong then I want to know. I have always assumed straight walled cartridges didn't have shoulders and necks.


This is straight walled to me.


tk111
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Oyster DuPree said:

Matthew 21:17
As a theologian, I have to say I'm stumped.
jpb1999
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Yeah, I am curious to where the 2 biblical post are going... just spill it and not beat around the bushes.
Oyster DuPree
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tk111
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ha gotcha. Been a long time for me and good ol Homer.
NRH ag 10
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The case is necked down, not tapered.

It's not a true straight wall case, but it does not appear to have any body taper, which has correctly been talked about as a potential issue for feeding and extraction in semi autos.

Can the pedantry end now?
JeremiahJohnson
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Thanks for clarifying. That's what I didn't understand
kyledr04
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Sounds interesting but will wait a bit. Thought about 6mm ARC. I've got a 300 ham'r and love it so always interested in new AR setups.
CactusThomas
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7 gr H2O more capacity than 6x45 is very significant for sure. But as a 6x45 shooter, I'm not loading compressed loads or looking for more velocity.

This negates most of the advantages of 6x45. Plentiful, cheap (free) brass and basically unlimited barrel life. Not to mention no extraction issues although I've not heard complaints from 350 leg shooters. Maybe because I don't live in Indiana and I don't know anyone who would needs to shoot 350 leg.
'03ag
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jpb1999 said:

Yeah, I am curious to where the 2 biblical post are going... just spill it and not beat around the bushes.
First reference basically "there's nothing new under the sun"

2nd reference is making fun of the seemingly random 1st reference.
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