Hello all,

Some of you know that I now live in AZ, right in the middle of black bear and cougar (4-legged) country. And a lot of you have seen the report of the man who was killed by a black bear last week here in AZ. We do find ourselves in the wilderness from time to time, and when there I open carry a full-sized 9mm semi. I carry 9mm as I think it is a good choice for self-defense from other people, but now I am wondering if it would be ok for bear and lion, and frankly I am having some doubts about that.

I would like to read opinions on what handgun caliber you would or do carry for defense against medium-sized carnivores, and also what handgun you would carry. I am not interested in carrying a long gun, as I am more likely to bring a handgun to bear (or lion) quicker than I could a rifle slung across my back. Just interested in seeing what you guys and gals think.......

thanks in advance,
C

10mm - lots of high capacity options nowadays

10mm if you go semi, .357 or 44 mag if you go revolver. Smith and Wesson 500 mag if you just want to carry the arm of God.

10mm Glock 20 or 40 seems like a great choice when paired with bear spray.

I think a 9mm +p with tac-xpd would take the fight out of a lion or black bear, but if you're looking for an excuse to buy a new gun get a xdm or g29 and similar bullets, or possibly alternate copper with hard cast lead from lost river

Dang looks like he makes a 9mm hard cast now... you could alternate these with copper in the 9mm and have penetration and expansion
https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/product/9mm-P-148-grain-Hard-Cast-Flat-Point-Predator-Penetrator-Velocity-1100-FPS-100-RND

I carry 44 mag for the bear, but that's for grizzly country. I think you'd be fine with your 9mm for black bear.

329pd is easy to carry but hell to shoot.

A 2.5 inch model 69 would probably be another good choice.

Psycho Bunny said:

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Smith and Wesson 500 mag if you just want to carry the arm of God.

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This is what I carry in bear country.

OP-
Lots of great advice. I personally like the 10mm options.

Just make sure to file down that front sight regardless of the pistol you choose. You can thank me later!

I love 10mm and have the Dan Wesson kodiak with an optic. Capacity isn't great and the gun is heavy, but powerful and super accurate with 10mm hard cast bullets from underwood. A heavier 10mm makes good follow up shots really easy…a lighter 10mm gun would take a lot more practice.
I carry it on a chest rig attached to my bino harness when hunting and I don't notice the weight at all. On a belt it could get annoyingly heavy.

If you need all day every day carry ability a 9mm+p would make sense.

454 casull

Worked with a guy that had one he used for bear protection in wyoming. First I'd ever heard of it. It's based on a .45 colt casing that's extended. Very large grain bullets from what I remember. Honestly not sure how great it would be at carnivore protection. Just thought I'd throw it out there for consideration.

So sexy...

Psycho Bunny said:

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10mm if you go semi, .357 or 44 mag if you go revolver. Smith and Wesson 500 mag if you just want to carry the arm of God.

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"Arm of God" sound great, but might be more suited to grizzly.

I do have two .357's, one I occasionally carry when running errands, and one that I don't ever carry. But I think for this purpose I would be more comfortable with a semi-auto. Your 10mm suggestion seems to be very popular....

C

Charismatic Megafauna said:

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I think a 9mm +p with tac-xpd would take the fight out of a lion or black bear, but if you're looking for an excuse to buy a new gun get a xdm or g29 and similar bullets, or possibly alternate copper with hard cast lead from lost river

Dang looks like he makes a 9mm hard cast now... you could alternate these with copper in the 9mm and have penetration and expansion
https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/product/9mm-P-148-grain-Hard-Cast-Flat-Point-Predator-Penetrator-Velocity-1100-FPS-100-RND

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Thanks for the link. I have never heard of these guys before. Not sure I would go that route however, since I like to run at least 300 (sometimes more, depending on the make) trouble-free rounds through a handgun before I will use either the load or the gun. That would get pretty expensive with this company. Will investigate further, since it would still be a bit less expensive than buying a new handgun in a different caliber. Not that I would mind buying a new handgun, in a different caliber......

C

TX_COWDOC said:

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OP-
Lots of great advice. I personally like the 10mm options.

Just make sure to file down that front sight regardless of the pistol you choose. You can thank me later!

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Why would I want to file the front sight?

C

aggiesundevil4 said:

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If you need all day every day carry ability a 9mm+p would make sense.

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I was kind of thinking that too. My normal 9mm carry load is a +P 124gr HP.

Nice handgun, btw......

C

Thanks. I own multiple 9mm, and one each of 22lr, 10mm, 357, and 45acp pistols, and that 10mm is hands down my favorite to shoot. And it's purty

Caladan said:

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TX_COWDOC said:

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OP-
Lots of great advice. I personally like the 10mm options.

Just make sure to file down that front sight regardless of the pistol you choose. You can thank me later!

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Why would I want to file the front sight?

C

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So it doesn't hurt as bad when the bear takes it away from you and sticks it up your azz!

If it makes you feel any better, i know that the owner of the company shoots glocks, and the big 10mm hard cast load was developed for his, but i can't find his posts on 24hrcampfire noting which model

Charismatic Megafauna said:

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Caladan said:

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TX_COWDOC said:

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OP-
Lots of great advice. I personally like the 10mm options.

Just make sure to file down that front sight regardless of the pistol you choose. You can thank me later!

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Why would I want to file the front sight?

C

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So it doesn't hurt as bad when the bear takes it away from you and sticks it up your azz!

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A friend of mine who was a brown bear hunting guide in Alaska for 30+ years always recommended bear spray over firearms. He said that he didn't recommend a gun because the kill zone on a bear coming at you is microscopically small and your odds of hitting it in that high pressure situation, with the bear moving, is even smaller.

He also told folks not to shoot at the bear's head if it is facing them. The bear's skull is sloping and very thick and a hit there will only result in a ricochet off the skull and a mad bear with a bad headache.

His advice to people if they insist on a gun is a .44 over a 9mm or 357. Even though many black bears are roughly the size of a human, they, like most wildlife, have a vitality that humans cannot match.

One interesting fact about my friend is that he survived a brown bear attack with multiple scars to prove it.

rally-cap said:

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10mm - lots of high capacity options nowadays

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sweet handling gun and perfect size for toting anytime in the outdoors

Having lived in bear and lion country for 7 years, I highly recommend spray. I have personally seen its effectiveness, and it freaking works. It's honestly much more effective than a pistol in a vast majority of situations. I could go into details (options) if you desire. But, middle of the night when I was having to deal with a bear in the yard, or packing into the backcountry I always had spray with me. As the years went on, the firearm got left behind more and more. You can "build a wall" with bear spray in front of you, which will absolutely stop a bear cold in its tracks. You can be off on your aim with spray, and still turn a bear around.

Also- clip your bear spray to your front (like shoulder strap), not your hip or back on your pack. Think about getting knocked on your butt, being drug, having 1 arm immobilized, or being in the fetal position- where are you going to be able to reach most easily?

- if you want a sidearm too, I always carried a 9mm. Don't overthink this one. A 10mm would be a superior choice, I believe. But if you have 9's, use them with proper loads (as others have suggested). What matters is putting hot metal in soft flesh while crapping your pants. So choose whatever you can deploy and shoot most reliably. Choose what you will comfortably practice with (as I know you will do religiously). For me- that is far more important than "stopping power". A 44 mag doesn't do a dang bit of good if you can't draw it or hit anything.

Also- I added a pepper ball launcher to my arsenal. I liked it because it was a flashlight and launcher in one. One thing to carry, one thing to fiddle with. I kept that at the house, and used it while walking the dog or poking around the yard at night. Much farther range than bear spray, which is very nice. The sound and impact are both effective, in addition to the agent in the pepper balls. Popping a little turd trying to rummage your trash cans is fun, and effective. But- you only have a few shots, and not a lot of "spray" in each pepper ball, so it's a trade off.

BSD said:

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Psycho Bunny said:

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Smith and Wesson 500 mag if you just want to carry the arm of God.

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This is what I carry in bear country.

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Well most of the time. Sometimes you just go commando.

Still the best trip ever.

10mm will definitely get the job done. I know a guy who shot a brown bear in Alaska with one. He shot it at a weird quartering away downhill angle. The round went through the vitals, up the neck and exited through the top of the skull. DRT

I've got pics of the skull somewhere.

I carry a 40 or 10mm. But I prefer bear spray.

I carry bear spray and a .44 mag revolver, a S&W model 69. But I do live in grizzly country. I also let my dog run ahead of me. If someone is going to surprise a bear, I'll let it be him. Just this past Sunday I was hiking on the Pahaska Trail about 2 miles east of YS park and saw a bunch of these.

When dad went fishing in Alaska, the guide had him bring his .44 mag with 240gr bullets. He did not have a 10mm so that may be another option.

9mm 124 or 140gr will work for both just fine. We're talking black bears and mountain lions…. Not grizzly and Kodiak.

Bear spray and 9mm and bell when hiking is what we take for last 20 years.

When in bear country carry bear spray and wear little jingle bells to make noise and alert the bears of your presence so they can retreat. You can know if you are in black bear or grizzly territory by examining and smelling their spoor. Black bear spoor will smell like berries and other browse and have bits of berries and other undigested vegetation in it. Grizzly bear spoor will smell like pepper spray and have little jingle bells in it

Rattler12 said:

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When in bear country carry bear spray and wear little jingle bells to make noise and alert the bears of your presence so they can retreat. You can know if you are in black bear or grizzly territory by examining and smelling their spoor. Black bear spoor will smell like berries and other browse and have bits of berries and other undigested vegetation in it. Grizzly bear spoor will smell like pepper spray and have little jingle bells in it

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received this anonymously on desk just ahead of trip to Yellowstone back in '99

What happens when your dog surprises the grizzly and then runs back downtrail to you with it hot on its tail?

AgRyan04 said:

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What happens when your dog surprises the grizzly and then runs back downtrail to you with it hot on its tail?

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Then I'll be ready. Probably have bear spray canister with safety latch removed in my left hand and my revolver in my right. Most bear attacks happen with almost no warning.

But knowing my dog he'll more than likely make a lot of noise before he comes running back to me.

I spend 1/2 the year in SW Colorado and we have lots of bears and cats. This week we had a bear across the road in the neighbors yard and one in our trash yesterday morning. With the fawn crop hitting the ground, we have cats on them. A cat killed a fawn by our garage and only left part of a rear leg. I hike every day and lead summer guests throughout the NF. I carry a 30S with 120 grain Lehigh Defenders. I like the weight for all day carrying and penetration has never been an issue. Have not shot a bear or cat, but tested it on deer and it punches right through. Some days carry a 19 w/ 90 grain Lehigh. Again, no bears or cats. They penetrate and exit a grown mule deer. That being said, I recommend bear spray to everyone who asks. It works great and much easier to use.

In general I'll agree with your comments on bear spray, but will add that the expiration date on the canister must be taken seriously. There's probably a lot of people carrying bear spray around they bought ten years ago and have never used, it is kind of expensive. I did a test on an expired canister a few years ago that had been expired less than a year and the pressure blast was only about half or less of what it should have been. And that was a canister I had been carrying when I ran into a grizzly up close. Fortunately I didn't need to use it then.

And if you do need to deploy spray facing any kind of breeze you could be in a world of hurt even if you stop the bear. That's something else I know first hand from testing expired canisters.

jmm said:

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That being said, I recommend bear spray to everyone who asks. It works great and much easier to use.

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How well does bear spray work on mountain lion?

Thanks