What is this and why have I never heard of it? Turbo-Diesel?


https://www.govplanet.com/for-sale/ITV-2012-General-Dynamics-M1163-ITV-PM-4x4-Growler-Oklahoma/7683555?h=5002%2Cmsg%7C87179%2CisAuc%7Cyes&rr=0.33333&hitprm=&pnLink=yes

According to Wiki - The M1161 Growler is officially the Internally Transportable Light Strike Vehicle (ITV-LSV) designed specifically for use with the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft. The M1161 and M1163 are the only tactical vehicles certified to fly in the V-22. Fulfilling multiple roles of light utility, light strike and fast attack vehicle, the M1161 Growler is smaller than most international vehicles in the same role. It has taken over duties of the M151 jeep-type variants and replaced the Interim Fast Attack Vehicle (IFAV).

Looks like fun!

The Marines tried to field a 120mm mortar system that could embark internally by osprey. It worked… ish…

You'd have 1 of these vehicles to tow the mortar and 1 to take the ammo. Drop a small team somewhere and boom: mobile IDF capability.

Of course - you're stuck with only what you brought so fuel, rounds, and sustenance were all limited.

From the tactical side, defensibility, utility, and the range / accuracy of a mortar system were all of concern.

Basically any MEU which took these vehicles ended up with them being stolen by operators looking for a(n underpowered) dune buggy until they broke them. The rest atrophied in gun parks as 155mm howitzermen didn't have time to fuss with a system they had no ammo to train with.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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The Marines tried to field a 120mm mortar system that could embark internally by osprey. It worked… ish…

You'd have 1 of these vehicles to tow the mortar and 1 to take the ammo. Drop a small team somewhere and boom: mobile IDF capability.

Of course - you're stuck with only what you brought so fuel, rounds, and sustenance were all limited.

From the tactical side, defensibility, utility, and the range / accuracy of a mortar system were all of concern.

Basically any MEU which took these vehicles ended up with them being stolen by operators looking for a(n underpowered) dune buggy until they broke them. The rest atrophied in gun parks as 155mm howitzermen didn't have time to fuss with a system they had no ammo to train with.

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This system is a prime example of the fraud, waste and abuse in defense contracts. This thing would never see actual battle. The up-armoring of this vehicle is a Kevlar floor mat to protect against IEDs.

The 120mm mortars are a good concept, but cannons are much more practical in today's day and age.

The ITV got some contractors really rich though, so there's that.

The Army was doing a similar but ad hoc version with 81mm mortars in Afghanistan using John Deere Gators with a trailer and Chinooks. The gator fits inside the back easily and two birds can drop off a pair of 81's, ammo and a small security team. They wouldn't be staying longer than a few hours to support an operation so no need for long term support.

We adapted it and used the gator to bring supplies and kit for village stability ops in higher mountain villages we couldn't drive to allowed us to bring more, stay a little longer and be more mobile than just on foot.

Yeah - I think the value associated with the ITV was somewhere around $100k a piece - in part due to the custom nature. Would've been a whole lot smarter (or as stated above - less lucrative) to get a commercial equivalent with better reliability and parts availability such as a gator.

Just like the LCAC: there is a niche where it seems like a great capability, but in insurgent 3-block war the lack of accuracy was never going to be accepted (by 2012 you basically weren't shooting anything that couldn't hit an 8 or 10 digit gps coordinate), the need wasn't there (himars and air-to-ground were already covering territory), and the ospreys and artillerymen were already task saturated.

At least with an 81 team the army was augmenting dedicated soldiers and a well established weapons system with facilitating equipment and not trying to create something new by spreading thin folks thinner.

I don't get this chain of thought. There was obviously a need to someone wouldn't have spent the time putting together the justification for it. It's the last thing a field guy wants to do.

There's a lot of things that became normal use that were developed by the military or NASA and lots of people said it wasn't needed. It may be 1 in 100, but hitting on something like this and often not for it's original intention pays dividends.

AgLA06 said:

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I don't get this chain of thought. There was obviously a need to someone wouldn't have spent the time putting together the justification for it. It's the last thing a field guy wants to do.

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There's a LOT of military spending based "weird idea, didn't work/now very out of date, but too difficult to cancel/correct the program, because it will upset the donor class."

The F35 probably falls into that. Then again I'm not sure I want a military to abandon a project because it's taking longer or is too expensive. Part of being proud of our military is believing they're better equipped and trained than any adversary.

I'm not sure that's been believable during stretches where certain political groups cut military spending.

Top end military equipment serves multiple purposes, so even if most of the F-35 is unnecessary, it's existence may still be.

1. Technology lifecycle health: gotta keep the innovators fed or they'll become unavailable
2. Old stuff wears out: if you're going to replace it with new stuff and the options are to try to recreate old manufacturing capabilities or go new - might as well go for new?
3. Keeping enemies at bay: there's no chance to catch us and they've largely stopped trying. Sure, they turn toward different strategies, but the head on engagement (and all its brutality) is subverted.
4. Morale: both of the force and the country. Stadium flyovers aren't a mistake.

I still think some of the missions are silly and would love to see the CAS mission invested in more proportionately, but I guess the brass is fine with killer drones and hellfires as the future.

This was kinda the replacement for the Marine Corp M422... kinda in theory. The M422 was the same idea as a light little vehicle that the Marines could easily lift and fly with.
Only about 4000 were made. They are really rare and really sought after by military vehicle collectors.
The M422 was called the " Mighty - Mite".