Gunny456 said:

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I know there are some damn smart folks on the OB. Lots of great knowledge to learn from.
Makes me know how dumb I am sometimes!

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Oh, there are those as well.

maroon barchetta said:

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There are a few people in this board who are experts on every subject.

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BARNES. WHERE ARE YOU, you sly dawgggg

And to think when I take the boat out I'm just praying I can put my 7 and 10 year old on a few crappie to make their day.

I despise cheaters. Glad they were caught.

I will say the cheater was a smart enough guy to keep his mouth shut when the weights were discovered. He knew if he opened his mouth to say anything it would have been closed by a fist with all the pissed off people around him lol.

Pretty stupid with the lead weights of that size? Any knowledgeable fisherman or judge could feel the bellies and know they were their! We regularly push up on a fishes belly to see what they are eating. These guys should be banned for life and probably serve some jail time.

Long podcast but you can listen to the guy cutting open the fish explain his side of the story. Set the link to start at the 3:00 min mark

Gunny456 said:

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That is a blatant false statement. Sounds like your friend could never win a tournament.

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Can't speak for any other than the tournaments that are held out of Matagorda, but there are a specific set of rules named unofficially after a particular person that, once they were implemented, that person magically stopped winning tournaments there like he and his team had regularly before.

Now, you might argue that before those rules were made it wasn't cheating, but anybody with any semblance of sportsmanship and gamesmanship knows that when you have parts of your team (or somebody not in the tournament) camp out in an area before the tournament starts or have only 1 person in the team check in at the marina while the rest of the team is already on the water that you are absolutely skirting the rules. When the last boats that come in somehow manage to win by razor thin margins, it's not always luck. Especially when it's the same people following the same MO. Sometimes it is genuinely luck, but luck doesn't strike that often and in that repeatable of a pattern.

Anytime money is involved, there are those that are going to bend and skirt the rules to the point that additional rules have to be made because they are gaming the system. If you choose not to see that, well, good for you I guess. But to act like fishing tournaments havent had those game the system and flat out cheat since the beginning is pretty naive IMO. Because people are people, and when money is involved, the worst tends to come out unfortunately.

What I said was that I have attended literally hundreds of tournaments and it is rare that they had cheating.... but what do I know. Was their never and incident? no.., but it certainly is not rampant as has been stated. And most larger tournaments with big money, like BASS, are multiple days and leaders change daily.
And I'll repeat again ... of all those tournaments, rarely did they have cheating and requiring them to take a polygraph, is a large deterrent that most fisherman can't fake out the experienced examiner.... so for the most part it is a very clean sport.
I base my opinion and facts from over many years of being there. Guess you have attended me more than I and I would have to respect that.

Gunny456 said:

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What I said was that I have attended literally hundreds of tournaments and it is rare that they had cheating.... but what do I know. Was their never and incident? no.., but it certainly is not rampant as has been stated. And most larger tournaments with big money, like BASS, are multiple days and leaders change daily.
And I'll repeat again ... of all those tournaments, rarely did they have cheating and requiring them to take a polygraph, is a large deterrent that most fisherman can't fake out the experienced examiner.... so for the most part it is a very clean sport.
I base my opinion and facts from over many years of being there. Guess you have attended me more than I and I would have to respect that.

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Never said I attended more, only what I know to be true from experience at a single tournament, and that unfortunately human nature is what it is, especially when money is involved.

Understand. My point has been to enforce the fact that it is not rampant and that the tournaments have not " ruined fishing".

Gunny456 said:

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Understand. My point has been to enforce the fact that it is not rampant and that the tournaments have not " ruined fishing".

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Oh ok. Since you said it, must be the gospel.

Furlock Bones said:

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Gunny456 said:

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Understand. My point has been to enforce the fact that it is not rampant and that the tournaments have not " ruined fishing".

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Oh ok. Since you said it, must be the gospel.

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Just like since you said it's rampant, that must be true?

I might have missed it stated earlier in the thread, but what initially made them suspicious about these specific fish? Was it as simple as a judge just feeling the lead weight in their stomach?

From the video, the judge eyeballed the fish that they submitted, and expected them to weigh in at about 20 pounds. They weighed in at well over 30, which set off alarm bells

Gunny456 said:

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Understand. My point has been to enforce the fact that it is not rampant and that the tournaments have not " ruined fishing".

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Yeah, just going to have to disagree with both.

Because a whole lot of the rules and regs exist specifically because cheating is rampant and it is a deterrent to keep it from happening. And anytime you take something that is supposed to be fun and relaxing and make it a paying sport, it takes something away from it. For me anyway, but htat's just me.

Thisguy1 said:

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Came across this story today talking about another way a guy was cheating for those asking about other methods.

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Here's a long-form article about a different major cheater I read a few years ago. Very fascinating.

https://sdfish.com/general/dark-secret-americas-big-bass-guru-mike-long/

CanyonAg77 said:

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From the video, the judge eyeballed the fish that they submitted, and expected them to weigh in at about 20 pounds. They weighed in at well over 30, which set off alarm bells

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Yep, he's been judging competitions for awhile and just from being a fisherman, he knows within a pound or so what these should weigh. He also says he keeps an eye on how many pounds these top guys need in order to finish in a certain spot for the multi-event series. He knew these guys needed to finish 10th or better to win the series, which would be 14-16 lbs across 5 fish.

He quickly eyeballed their fish, saw 5 solid but standard looking 4-5lb walleye, and assumed low 20s which is also where most were coming in at. He weights the first fish and it's north of 7lbs. All 5 weigh 34lbs together. Everyone around immediately starts calling BS

The fish were dead so he goes to feel them to make sure they feel fresh-dead firm vs long-dead mushy (ie they weren't previously caught/dead and brought in), and as soon as he does it, he feels the hard objects. Cuts one open and the rest is history

So these guys would have likely won (forget about the previous days' cheating) based on their actual fish alone?

chickencoupe16 said:

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So these guys would have likely won (forget about the previous days' cheating) based on their actual fish alone?

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From my understanding, that is correct. Then again they didn't think every fish being 2 pounds heavier would be noticed. These fish would have been in the 4-5 lb range and were averaging just under 7 lbs each. That's 40%+ heavier.

chickencoupe16 said:

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So these guys would have likely won (forget about the previous days' cheating) based on their actual fish alone?

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Yes, sounds like they would have won the series without cheating on the last round… assuming they actually caught these fish. I'd say whether they caught and stuffed them vs brought them pre-stuffed is uncertain though

Interesting article but Gunny won't like the opinion. This guys says they were pretty dumb, agreed, and they should of just stuffed ice so the evidence melts away.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/fishing/walleye-tournament-cheating-scandal-problem/

wouldnt that make the fish colder that the others? to me that seems the fastest way to get busted.

You know what the water temp in lake erie is? Those fish are practically frozen already

in the winter I would agree, but google says current temp is 55 degrees.........that being said, i have never fished that part of the country so I cant confidently back up my statement.

Does anyone know if all of the fish weighed in were dead?........similar to salt water where you just chunk them into a cooler? If so there goes my theory and ice would be the perfect weapon.

That's what I'm saying. 55 is fkn cold!

MeatEater Article

Another good article. Goes into detail about these guys being on everyone's radar for months. This was just them finally getting caught.

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The success of our largemouth bass fisheries in this state and others has been as a direct result in the popularity and growth over 3 decades of bass tournaments and tournament trails and venues. The same can be said for the redfish fisheries and the success of the old GCCA and now CCA.
The amount of money raised by these venues has been instrumental in the research and construction of countless hatcheries and put forth to many projects that have enhanced freshwater and saltwater game fish populations and protecting of the fisheries.
The industry and tournaments have put a lot back into the sport as far as it relates to the improving of the fisheries that have made profound difference to insure future generations of being able to enjoy the sport.

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I will give you the freshwater hatcheries and stocking efforts but stocking red drum and spotted seatrout has had a negligible effect on populations of those species in Texas despite what the CCA and TPW hatcheries claim. A 5 year study found that coastwide less than 5% of red drum were stocked fish. If you want to credit TPW with success in fisheries management look at the removal of commercial gillnets from the bays.

red drum in Texas bays

chickencoupe16 said:

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So these guys would have likely won (forget about the previous days' cheating) based on their actual fish alone?

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Remember that one time that you stayed up all night making crib notes to cheat on your test the next day? And then when you showed up for the test, you realized you didn't need them because you learned by making the crib notes?

DatTallArchitect said:

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chickencoupe16 said:

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So these guys would have likely won (forget about the previous days' cheating) based on their actual fish alone?

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From my understanding, that is correct. Then again they didn't think every fish being 2 pounds heavier would be noticed. These fish would have been in the 4-5 lb range and were averaging just under 7 lbs each. That's 40%+ heavier.

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I read in one of the articles that their weight was 33 lbs and the next closest limit was 16.

I also saw some legal analysis that said since they were disqualified, it may not technically be fraud since they weren't awarded the prize money yet.

Nobody forces folks to fish in tournaments. Some people like the competition. They pay entry fees to do it. I know lots of guys and gals that find tournament fishing fun and relaxing to them. To each his own.

Yep. CCA and their events are worthless. They have done nothing to improve the fisheries.

Gunny456 said:

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Yep. CCA and their events are worthless. They have done nothing to improve the fisheries.

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Not really, their political support for effective fisheries management when they were the GCCA helped remove gillnets sooner than would have been possible without them, but the emphasis on stocking since then has just been window dressing. If they would put as much effort into habitat, specifically reestablishing submerged (shoal grass) and emergent (marsh cordgrass) grass beds they would have a much greater long term impact on bay fisheries. Unfortunately, numbers of fish stocked is sexier than acres of habitat established.

Gunny456 said:

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Yep. CCA and their events are worthless. They have done nothing to improve the fisheries.

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CCA is a great organization to belong to, their stickers let people know who you are!

Found a shot of their fish fry