Howdy Ags,

MLS # 55944029. The property backs up to a creek. The agent does not know how much of the property is the flood zone. I looked FEMA's site and if I'm looking at it correctly the entire property is in the flood zone. That would definitely explain why it's been on the market for 115 days but cannot be accurate as there are multiple existing homes in the area. The nearest address I've found to reference is 22422 Bergman Drive Magnolia TX 77355. Would anyone have any more definitive resources that could help me see how much or the property is buildable? I would be much appreciated.

Looks to me like the property is in the floodplain, but shouldn't your realtor be able to tell you or at least direct you to someone who can tell you for sure?

It also looks me like like the nearby address you gave is not in the floodplain. Also, floodplains change. So entirely possible someone built a house, then the floodplain changed to include their house. So I wouldn't say it's impossible because there are houses nearby.

I am not a developer by trade, but am working on developing some acreage. Here's what I have learned from my engineer and a friend that develops massive neighborhoods. Anyone who is knows more please feel free to correct me. FEMA is the definitive map but there are many different flood zones. In my particular project, there is a 100 year floodplain and then there is a floodway as you get closer to a river. You can build in the flood zone but are not supposed to build in the floodway (although some have). If your house or building is in this flood zone and you have a mortgage, you will almost certainly have to buy flood insurance. That's probably why the house has been sitting on the market. This insurance is not cheap.

In my case, I'm starting the process of obtaining a letter of map revision from FEMA after building up the pad sites above the floodplain. That will allow me to build and the banks won't require flood insurance for homeowners (although it might still be a good idea). The banks I'm using all use the FEMA maps as gospel to determine if flood insurance is needed. That is all I think know so far. Hope it helps.

htxag09 said:

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Also, floodplains change. So entirely possible someone built a house, then the floodplain changed to include their house. So I wouldn't say it's impossible because there are houses nearby.

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This is absolutely true. I bought a building that was built in the 80s and was not in the floodplain. The next year, FEMA came out with new maps. Now it is in the floodplain. It's never been within a mile of flooding, but it is what it is.

mark_spivey said:

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Howdy Ags,

MLS # 55944029. The property backs up to a creek. The agent does not know how much of the property is the flood zone. I looked FEMA's site and if I'm looking at it correctly the entire property is in the flood zone. That would definitely explain why it's been on the market for 115 days but cannot be accurate as there are multiple existing homes in the area. The nearest address I've found to reference is 22422 Bergman Drive Magnolia TX 77355. Would anyone have any more definitive resources that could help me see how much or the property is buildable? I would be much appreciated.

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the entire piece of property looks like it is in the Flood Zone: AE 100 year floodplain. I would imagine you'd have to have an engineer do a flood study on that site to determine the elevations and also the impact of any development on the flood plain. no clue, but I'd bet all of that would be at least $10,000-$15,000, if not more.

Yes, as stated above there are different designated zones. Floodway is a no go for building. You can be in the 100 yr flood but need to be above the flood elevation, at least plus a ft but more the better. You need an elevation certificate from a surveyor to prove this. If you build above this elevation you will need flood insurance but it will be minimal and not very costly.

For other person above, you can get an elevation certificate as well, or you can do a full flood study by an engineer, but those are costly. If they brought out new maps they may have already newly studied it. You may want to ask. They also increased the flood elevations in done areas due to the higher rainfall totals. There is also a 500 yr. need to ask some questions.

Edit to add that an elevation certificate from a surveyor should be around $1000 to $1500. Studies would be way more. $10k to $100k or more depending on size of area studies.

yep. those are the prices I heard for a certificate and full study. It could be a lot of cash. at 7 acres for $249K and having those flood plain costs, seems way over priced, in my opinion. that's probably why it has been on the market so long.

jpb1999 said:

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Yes, as stated above there are different designated zones. Floodway is a no go for building. You can be in the 100 yr flood but need to be above the flood elevation, at least plus a ft but more the better. You need an elevation certificate from a surveyor to prove this. If you build above this elevation you will need flood insurance but it will be minimal and not very costly.

For other person above, you can get an elevation certificate as well, or you can do a full flood study by an engineer, but those are costly. If they brought out new maps they may have already newly studied it. You may want to ask. They also increased the flood elevations in done areas due to the higher rainfall totals. There is also a 500 yr. need to ask some questions.

Edit to add that an elevation certificate from a surveyor should be around $1000 to $1500. Studies would be way more. $10k to $100k or more depending on size of area studies.

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1k to 1.5 k for a Cert is cheap. I won't do one for less than $2500. Too much liability nowdays. It's now to a point, with surveyors losing their License relying on FEMA BM's, I'm considering not doing them anymore.

I'd check with the county as well and see what flooding requirements they have. Most counties have floodplain permitting requirements before they will issue a development permit.

According to FEMA, my entire property is magically in Zone AE. According to the latest survey I had done, only part of the property is actually within the 100 year flood zone.

FEMA doest care about actual data though and prefersto go by a hand drawn pencil line on a developer plat versus actual suvey datum. So i pay full Zone AE flood insurance prces. Its awesome.

You might want to look into a LOMR

I need to get an elevation certificate in Bastrop County. It is pretty clear that only part of the land is within the flood plain but, due to closing quickly this year, there was no time to get it done before closing.

Paying a year or two worth of insurance to get a certificate that removes that burden seems like a good trade.

Does anyone have a recommendation for someone who works in or around Bastrop County?

Troy91 said:

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I need to get an elevation certificate in Bastrop County. It is pretty clear that only part of the land is within the flood plain but, due to closing quickly this year, there was no time to get it done before closing.

Paying a year or two worth of insurance to get a certificate that removes that burden seems like a good trade.

Does anyone have a recommendation for someone who works in or around Bastrop County?

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Bill O'Hara.

schmellba99 said:

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According to FEMA, my entire property is magically in Zone AE. According to the latest survey I had done, only part of the property is actually within the 100 year flood zone.

FEMA doest care about actual data though and prefersto go by a hand drawn pencil line on a developer plat versus actual suvey datum. So i pay full Zone AE flood insurance prces. Its awesome.

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Can you clarify your first paragraph? Unless FEMA has updated the FIRM that your property is in, or a LOMC has been created via LOMA/LOMR the SFHA didn't change, at least in terms of flood insurance rates. Your surveyor merely scaled the floodplain from the FIRM on to his survey.

And your second paragraph…we'll, that's just not true. I understand it may be a rant on your part but there are plenty of ways to remove a site from the SFHA.

SquanchyAg said:

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mark_spivey said:

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Howdy Ags,

MLS # 55944029. The property backs up to a creek. The agent does not know how much of the property is the flood zone. I looked FEMA's site and if I'm looking at it correctly the entire property is in the flood zone. That would definitely explain why it's been on the market for 115 days but cannot be accurate as there are multiple existing homes in the area. The nearest address I've found to reference is 22422 Bergman Drive Magnolia TX 77355. Would anyone have any more definitive resources that could help me see how much or the property is buildable? I would be much appreciated.

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the entire piece of property looks like it is in the Flood Zone: AE 100 year floodplain. I would imagine you'd have to have an engineer do a flood study on that site to determine the elevations and also the impact of any development on the flood plain. no clue, but I'd bet all of that would be at least $10,000-$15,000, if not more.

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If it's in Zone AE, the BFE (base flood elevation) has been determined. No study necessary. You just have to prove via elevation certificate (pre, during, and post construction) that your FFE (finished floor elevation) and any attached equipment (A/C units, generator, etc.) is a certain height (mandated by the city/county floodplain administrator) above the BFE

rather be fishing said:

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You might want to look into a LOMR

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Thank you for all the responses!!

Lots of Acronyms to search up but I have a much better understanding of what I'm looking at.

I went out and walked this lot today (or tried too). Its a swamp and has a gas pipeline running through it.

I'll keep looking!

mark_spivey said:

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Thank you for all the responses!!

Lots of Acronyms to search up but I have a much better understanding of what I'm looking at.

I went out and walked this lot today (or tried too). Its a swamp and has a gas pipeline running through it.

I'll keep looking!

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LOMR is a Letter of Map Revision. Get yourself a good civil engineer if you believe your property was once in the flood zone, but is no longer in it. They can possibly get you an LOMR from FEMA that officially states the new flood zone designation.

NFIP / FEMA is government nonsense at its best. Study what the agencies have done with maps and rates over the last 20 years. Regardless of the expert opinions (sorry boys) the lines are arbitrarily drawn and redrawn to "capture" more homeowners every year. The deregulation of rates has caused NFIP costs to the homeowners to skyrocket …. With no end in sight. They need your money, they change the lines.

Think carefully before buying in a flood zone (AE or otherwise) if you'll be required to buy flood coverage.

retiredintx said:

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NFIP / FEMA is government nonsense at its best. Study what the agencies have done with maps and rates over the last 20 years. Regardless of the expert opinions (sorry boys) the lines are arbitrarily drawn and redrawn to "capture" more homeowners every year. The deregulation of rates has caused NFIP costs to the homeowners to skyrocket …. With no end in sight. They need your money, they change the lines.

Think carefully before buying in a flood zone (AE or otherwise) if you'll be required to buy flood coverage.

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The maps are redrawn and SFHAs updated as development expands and new data becomes available. Do you have any idea how many BILLIONS of dollars of damage were done by Harvey and Katrina alone?
This is not about the government trying to screw your average homeowner, it's an attempt to mitigate flood damage and the resultant remediation costs.

I'm not a big fan of the federal government but not everything is a GD conspiracy.

SWC Ag said:

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schmellba99 said:

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According to FEMA, my entire property is magically in Zone AE. According to the latest survey I had done, only part of the property is actually within the 100 year flood zone.

FEMA doest care about actual data though and prefersto go by a hand drawn pencil line on a developer plat versus actual suvey datum. So i pay full Zone AE flood insurance prces. Its awesome.

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Can you clarify your first paragraph? Unless FEMA has updated the FIRM that your property is in, or a LOMC has been created via LOMA/LOMR the SFHA didn't change, at least in terms of flood insurance rates. Your surveyor merely scaled the floodplain from the FIRM on to his survey.

And your second paragraph…we'll, that's just not true. I understand it may be a rant on your part but there are plenty of ways to remove a site from the SFHA.

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If you look at the FEMA online maps, there is a wonderful little bubble in Zone AE that magically captures my entire property. Not my neighbors on either side, but my property in its entirety. It's amazing how that happened.

When I had my survey done, the surveyor shot the actual elevations, and only the back 3rd or so of my property actually falls within the elevations defined by the 100 year flood plain.

FEMA doesn't care about that - their maps for my area are based on hand drawn developer's plats and I spent a lot of time attempting to argue with them about getting things updated based on actual data. They laughed at me and told me to pound sand.

So I pay Zone AE flood rates instead of the Zone X flood rates. Wasn't worth continuing to fight for about $300 a year difference back then, so I gave it up.

Believe me, don't believe me...doesn't change anything on my end.

BTW - even during Harvey, flood waters never got closer than about 1/4 mile from my property. And that was a 1000 or maybe 5000 year flood. Highly accurate, FEMA is.

Keep in mind that HC Flood Control is redrawing all of the maps within their area of responsibility. They should be coming out for comment in the next year or so.

A lot of the existing 500yr is going to become the 100yr.

https://www.maapnext.org/

This is their project to remap the area. This only shows current floodplains.

schmellba99 said:

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SWC Ag said:

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schmellba99 said:

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According to FEMA, my entire property is magically in Zone AE. According to the latest survey I had done, only part of the property is actually within the 100 year flood zone.

FEMA doest care about actual data though and prefersto go by a hand drawn pencil line on a developer plat versus actual suvey datum. So i pay full Zone AE flood insurance prces. Its awesome.

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Can you clarify your first paragraph? Unless FEMA has updated the FIRM that your property is in, or a LOMC has been created via LOMA/LOMR the SFHA didn't change, at least in terms of flood insurance rates. Your surveyor merely scaled the floodplain from the FIRM on to his survey.

And your second paragraph…we'll, that's just not true. I understand it may be a rant on your part but there are plenty of ways to remove a site from the SFHA.

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If you look at the FEMA online maps, there is a wonderful little bubble in Zone AE that magically captures my entire property. Not my neighbors on either side, but my property in its entirety. It's amazing how that happened.

When I had my survey done, the surveyor shot the actual elevations, and only the back 3rd or so of my property actually falls within the elevations defined by the 100 year flood plain.

FEMA doesn't care about that - their maps for my area are based on hand drawn developer's plats and I spent a lot of time attempting to argue with them about getting things updated based on actual data. They laughed at me and told me to pound sand.

So I pay Zone AE flood rates instead of the Zone X flood rates. Wasn't worth continuing to fight for about $300 a year difference back then, so I gave it up.

Believe me, don't believe me...doesn't change anything on my end.

BTW - even during Harvey, flood waters never got closer than about 1/4 mile from my property. And that was a 1000 or maybe 5000 year flood. Highly accurate, FEMA is.

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A) I'd love to see your property on the FIRM to see what you're describing. I don't think anyone expects you to share that info on this site however.

B) If the surveyor has elevations of portions of your property and you can show you're not in the SFHA, you can have the map updated via the LOMA process. Furthermore, if your structures are above the BFE, a simple elevation certificate proving that would change your flood insurance rates.

C) Still confused about this. FEMA created their FIRMs using engineering studies. Developers scale the floodplain onto their plats, not the other way around. And again, lots of ways to get your property out of the SFHA. Not sure who you were dealing with but if you really got that feedback, you need to know they were wrong and you can have your situation addressed/corrected.

D) As for the (ongoing) FEMA accuracy gripes (not just by you, admittedly), FEMA is well aware that the data is "rough" in many areas and as mentioned before is continually updating their data and publications at a cost of hundreds of millions a dollars a year. Flood risks are dynamic and change over time. Land use, erosion, and other natural forces can dramatically alter water flow and drainage patterns. But again, if you've got localized data from a surveyor, you're way ahead of the game. You just need to talk to the right people.

If Google Maps sat view is correct - that's less than 1/2 mile off Spring Creek. Spring Creek is a cruel mistress. Quite floody recently. If you buy and build - figure out a way to elevate any structures.

Weird coincidence, but the house I built with BGCH was in Glenmont Estates on Adams Way. I can tell you all about the neighborhood.

Back in 2013 when we bought our house, we actually had our offer accepted on a house until I started looking into the Flood map. The flood line went right across the back corner of the house. I reached out to some lenders and they all agreed that they would require flood insurance on the house which was like $1200 a month or something crazy. The realtor and I told the home owner and they got very upset stating that they had never paid flood insurance and that there is no way that was correct. After they got a little ugly we just walked away.

SWC Ag said:

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retiredintx said:

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NFIP / FEMA is government nonsense at its best. Study what the agencies have done with maps and rates over the last 20 years. Regardless of the expert opinions (sorry boys) the lines are arbitrarily drawn and redrawn to "capture" more homeowners every year. The deregulation of rates has caused NFIP costs to the homeowners to skyrocket …. With no end in sight. They need your money, they change the lines.

Think carefully before buying in a flood zone (AE or otherwise) if you'll be required to buy flood coverage.

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The maps are redrawn and SFHAs updated as development expands and new data becomes available. Do you have any idea how many BILLIONS of dollars of damage were done by Harvey and Katrina alone?
This is not about the government trying to screw your average homeowner, it's an attempt to mitigate flood damage and the resultant remediation costs.

I'm not a big fan of the federal government but not everything is a GD conspiracy.

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Lol, fema and the county has kept the neighborhood near my ranch, through which 5' of water rushes straight across when the river overbanks (the definition of floodway) out of floodway designation, when the few rural houses which do not flood are in the floodway. That is a property tax play. Sorry. Thats what governments do.

Look for brown tree line and on improvements. Talk to the neighbors. Ask for pics during harvey, etc.

I heard something interesting, FEMA should have the new HC maps now, but they're not going to release them until after the election. The current local leaders (all D's) do not want people getting really upset over new bills right before they vote.

Is this true? Well, I don't know. But if the maps aren't released to the public until Nov...then you'll know.

SWC Ag said:

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schmellba99 said:

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SWC Ag said:

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schmellba99 said:

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According to FEMA, my entire property is magically in Zone AE. According to the latest survey I had done, only part of the property is actually within the 100 year flood zone.

FEMA doest care about actual data though and prefersto go by a hand drawn pencil line on a developer plat versus actual suvey datum. So i pay full Zone AE flood insurance prces. Its awesome.

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Can you clarify your first paragraph? Unless FEMA has updated the FIRM that your property is in, or a LOMC has been created via LOMA/LOMR the SFHA didn't change, at least in terms of flood insurance rates. Your surveyor merely scaled the floodplain from the FIRM on to his survey.

And your second paragraph…we'll, that's just not true. I understand it may be a rant on your part but there are plenty of ways to remove a site from the SFHA.

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If you look at the FEMA online maps, there is a wonderful little bubble in Zone AE that magically captures my entire property. Not my neighbors on either side, but my property in its entirety. It's amazing how that happened.

When I had my survey done, the surveyor shot the actual elevations, and only the back 3rd or so of my property actually falls within the elevations defined by the 100 year flood plain.

FEMA doesn't care about that - their maps for my area are based on hand drawn developer's plats and I spent a lot of time attempting to argue with them about getting things updated based on actual data. They laughed at me and told me to pound sand.

So I pay Zone AE flood rates instead of the Zone X flood rates. Wasn't worth continuing to fight for about $300 a year difference back then, so I gave it up.

Believe me, don't believe me...doesn't change anything on my end.

BTW - even during Harvey, flood waters never got closer than about 1/4 mile from my property. And that was a 1000 or maybe 5000 year flood. Highly accurate, FEMA is.

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A) I'd love to see your property on the FIRM to see what you're describing. I don't think anyone expects you to share that info on this site however.

Nope, but I wouldn't have believed if if I hadn't of seen it myself.

Edit - went back and found it in my old files, it does encompass my neighbor...but magically ends at her property line. At the time, there were no more houses on the other side of her and that is where it ended. Looking at the newer maps, they moved it to incorporate new houses built since then. Amazing. And flood waters from Harvey never got within 1/4 mile from my property.

B) If the surveyor has elevations of portions of your property and you can show you're not in the SFHA, you can have the map updated via the LOMA process. Furthermore, if your structures are above the BFE, a simple elevation certificate proving that would change your flood insurance rates.

I have an elevation certificate (actually over 18" above 100 year BFE), but that doesn't matter when flood insurance is concerned - if you are in Zone AE, you pay Zone AE rates regardless of what your elevation cert says. And since I am in the magic bubble of Zone AE, I pay Zone AE rates.

C) Still confused about this. FEMA created their FIRMs using engineering studies. Developers scale the floodplain onto their plats, not the other way around. And again, lots of ways to get your property out of the SFHA. Not sure who you were dealing with but if you really got that feedback, you need to know they were wrong and you can have your situation addressed/corrected.

Not everywhere is up to date on things. I went to the county courthouse, pulled the FEMA maps when I started my protest - it was a developer's plat map with hand drawn lines. Seriously. Believe me, don't believe me - doesn't matter. The digital maps on FEMA's site are essentially the same thing, and they don't reflect actual elevations in every area. The more rural you get, the less accurate they are because there isn't the incentive to get them accurate.

I looked at doing the LOMA, etc. - but the difference in Zone AE and Zone X flood insurance cost for me is about $300 a year. It was going to cost multiples of that in time, effort, etc. to get anything changed - to the tune that I could pay the extra cost for about 20 years before I'd break even. So it wasn't worth continuing to argue with the feds. I keep hoping they'll update maps, especially since I didn't have floodwaters on my property at all during the Tax Day, Memorial Day, Labor Day or Harvey flood events. Doubt anything changes and it still isn't worth my time to argue to make any changes.

D) As for the (ongoing) FEMA accuracy gripes (not just by you, admittedly), FEMA is well aware that the data is "rough" in many areas and as mentioned before is continually updating their data and publications at a cost of hundreds of millions a dollars a year. Flood risks are dynamic and change over time. Land use, erosion, and other natural forces can dramatically alter water flow and drainage patterns. But again, if you've got localized data from a surveyor, you're way ahead of the game. You just need to talk to the right people.

One woudl think having good data would make the changes easier, but it really doesn't I'm afraid. FEMA, like every other .gov agency, works at their pace and do what they want when they want regardless of data. WE still haven't seen major changes to floodplains after any of the massive floods we've had here over the last 5-6 years. And likely won't, because they are spending their effort in places like Harris County, Ft. Bend County, Galveston County - areas with much higher population densities and whom the insurance companies are pushing to get fixed. It is what it is.

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