Cross posted from the fitness board

I may get the chance to do a back country Wyoming Elk trip next year. I have the cardio going and should be really in shape come next season. However.

have been working on losing weight and so far I have gone from 235 to 186.

I want to get down to 172-175 to finish the weight loss.

I then want to put on 8 to 10 pounds of muscle to get to 180-185 and stay there.

I would like to do it in around three months if possible. I have been looking online, but almost all of what I have found is supplements and testosterone boosters in addition to weights.

I would perfer to do it with out the additives.

Its has been a long time for me on the weights to build muscle.

Any advice, direction, pointers, ect.. would be appreciated.

Just tell us how you lost the weight and it sounds like you know what you are doing. Have a good hunt!

FAT SEXY said:

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A shake weight is what you're looking for, OP

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Whatever 8 to 10 pounds you put on you will lose on your hunting trip.

My advice is to focus more on adaptive performance vs. Weight gain.

Single leg work. Squats. Get your pack on, break your boots in.

harge57 said:

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Whatever 8 to 10 pounds you put on you will lose on your hunting trip.

My advice is to focus more on adaptive performance vs. Weight gain.

Single leg work. Squats. Get your pack on, break your boots in.

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This. Work on the muscle gain once you get back from your hunt.

How old are you? From some of your posts, it seems you are not new to weight training. If you're young and have never lifted weights before, maybe under ideal circumstances you could put on that much muscle in a short period of time, but even that is unlikely "naturally". For older fellas who are experienced at weight training a couple of pounds of muscle per year would be more realistic. Genetics matters too. Eat clean. Eat a modest calorie surplus. Workout hard, Beat down each muscle group at least twice per week. Progressive overload. Sleep and recovery. Hope for the best.

Bulk then cut. That's always the right answer. I'm still on phase one, only my bulking is in the midsection.

If your legs are already used to carrying an extra 50 pounds then I think you'll be just fine unless you've been engaging in unhealthy weight loss tactics

Why do you want to stop losing weight before you put it back on? If you want to add mass then lift heavier weight with less reps.
For example-
If I'm just in a maintenance phase and being lazy, stick around 175-185 for 8-10 reps x 3 sets on bench. If I'm feeling frisky and want to see some improvement, I will do a set of that then start increasing to 195-205 and go to 4-6 reps for a couple sets.

For backcountry hunting I would focus on all leg groups and work on shoulders specifically for your pack. When I was in a mountain climbing phase I would take my pack to the gym, load it up with weight and hit the stair climber for an hour.

I really like cleans into a front squat and weighted box jumps as well. I think the dynamic movement would be useful as well.

Sorry for the rambling.

Why does it matter what you weigh on the mountain if you're in shape for the hunt? Muscle mass is expensive on the mountain! If you're fit and strong at 175lbs then so be it.

You want to add 10 lbs of lean muscle you'll have to gain maybe 16-20 lbs overall then cut. You can't build muscle alone without "supplements ". That scenario is a solid year of bulk and cut and bulk and cut for most people. Work on carrying a heavy pack and up and down any hills you can find is good prep for western hunting.

gaining that amount of muscle in that short of time is just not realistic. And honestly, extra weight in the mountains is not your best friend.

Focus on functional lifts and cutting down to a weight that is comfortable, with the understanding you will likely loose 1lb/day operating in a calorie deficit on a true backpack hunt. So if you dont want to be below 175 lbs, and the hunt is 7 days, i would suggest going in at 182 in the best shape you can be in at that weight given the timeframe you are working with. Don't worry about fat/muscle composition so much as making yourself as in-shape as possible.

legs, lungs and core should be your focus areas. squats, lunges, plyometrics, yoga, weight rucks, bleachers with a weighted pack. Make sure you boots are broken in and your feet are toughened up. broken down feet will kill you on a mountain hunt, regardless of the rest of your conditioning.

From someone who lives at altitude, and helps a good many people pack animals out of the mountains each year- don't worry about adding x% of muscle.

Can't tell you how many guys came up here looking great in the gym, trying to add muscle for the pack out, and struggled to get their body up and down the mountain to make a shot in the first place.

You have done a great job of losing unnecessary weight. I'm guessing your lungs and cardio are in good shape too.

Work on adaptive training and dynamic movements.
Get your pack squared away, put weight in it, and start hiking the best elevation you can find (even just bleachers is better than nothing). Work on longer hikes with less weight for stamina and training. Work on shorter hikes (especially downhill) with heavier weight to get your stability and muscles in shape. You have tons of little supporting muscles that you will never really strengthen in a gym, but a mile of heavy bag downhill will show you exactly where your weak links are. Work your core, work on balance (I love single leg work and bosu balls). Keep those lungs and heart in top shape. Eat healthy (as I'm sure you do). POUND WATER leading up to your trip. Start 2 weeks out, and drink so much you get tired of going to the bathroom. Then drink more .

Don't neglect your gear either. Breaking in your boots and pack are just as important as getting your body in shape. Put 100+ miles on your boots before you go. Practice sprinting up a hill, then trying to settle in and make a shot while your heart is pounding. Teach yourself to clam, slow, breath, and focus. Work on your camping set up (if you are doing that) until you can almost do it blind in the dark- because you just might have to. Go over every single oz you plan on carrying with a fine tooth comb.

These are the areas you will be so thankful you focused on.

Good luck!

First of all you got a lot of really good feedback from posters on this board. I'm going to try and add a little bit but it's already late and I am almost asleep…

That being said, the hardest things for people to do for gaining muscle/strength (assuming you're not 40+ years old and dealing with low testosterone) are their diets and their workout routines.

I promise you, you're either not eating enough (or enough protein/carbs) and/or you're stuck in a workout routine that is not aligning with your goals. I have done both and know just how much you can slow or stall growth because of that.

So to your hunt in Wyoming - I've always had the opposite problem you're going to have… I've got more mass and not enough cardiovascular endurance. Pretty dang challenging but maintaining a rigid weightlifting program and incorporating cardio = a lot of calories burned. You obviously know how to balance a diet since you've lost so much weight (congratulations, by the way) so you can build muscle. The question is really can you eat more or train differently to get there?

I'd also advice you not to overlook creatine. It's not for everyone, particular those trying to cut weight, but the muscle building and strength benefits are documented. It's basically the only supplement I'll touch in moderation and is not complete snake oil, in my opinion.

Feel free to PM or ask any other questions. Good luck!

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Can't tell you how many guys came up here looking great in the gym, trying to add muscle for the pack out, and struggled to get their body up and down the mountain to make a shot in the first place.

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Damn was this me! Lol I never tried to build muscle for a trip but focused on increased cardio and more compound lifts/movements. Unfortunately, 3 of the last 4 trip I weighed more than I ever have the day before I left because I was eating so damn much due to increased cardio.

The rest of your post is very accurate. Physics is not your friend going up and down the mountains. I've always struggled with that part because most of the year(s) being able to climb a mountain isn't why I am training and that reason doesn't really help me on the mountain.

Where it does help, and this may have been posted above, is knowing your personal limits and boundaries. Being able to challenge your body and knowing that your mind wants to quit way before your body NEEDS to. A lot of people get soft and have a hard time pushing their limits because it's been so long… I'd always advise, within reason, to not let that feeling dissipate for very long, if ever.

Just cause you're a doctor doesn't mean you know anything about this topic… do you even go on hunts out west and know how to train for them?



(Sarcasm for anyone that missed the winking faces)

Thanks everyone there is some really good stuff in here.

fwiw- I am 6'0 and 47 years old.

The weight loss is through a program with my doctor.

I have cut calories significantly. To around 1500 a day. High protien and veggies limited fruit and complex carbs and almost no alcohol. Lots of water.

I run 2 to 3 miles four times a week. Walk 3 to 5 miles 7 days a week. Do 100 pushups M-F.

Due to the low calories weight lifting really hasn't been an option. Oddly enough the running and walking haven't been an issue, but when I try and lift I can't go for more than about 15 minutes before I run out of gas.

The 172-175 is where the doctor wanted me to drop to then build up to 180-185. I of course will ask him when I see him for my next check up.

I have never lifted to gain weight (muscle mass) before.

I am almost there so I will look onto all of y'alls suggestions.

Haha…Feel like I need to set the record straight! First of all, I'm not a real doctor…I'm just a surgeon. As such I have very little knowledge that's helpful for day to day stuff. Secondly, I haven't personally hunted with tthaag09, but my brother has. I've heard he lifts elk quarters with one hand and puts them over his shoulders. As such he probably knows a thing are two about building muscle and good advice there. I didn't think to mention the creatine, but it's a very good point. One of only a handful of supplements that has actually proven to increase strength (and muscle mass).

As many have mentioned already, mountain hunting is mostly about the cardio. The running and walking you have done will pay off. Once you get loaded down with elk quarters you may wish you had done a few more sets of Bulgarian split squats.

If you've never weight trained for mass before you may have a few pounds of "newbie gains" of muscle mass in you, but in your mid 40's nothing comes easy

OP username does not check out.

3 months is plenty of time. progressive overload workouts. Every week try to beat your previous workout whether it's one more rep of the same weight or 2.5/5lbs more and same reps than the previous week.

Also, get .7-1g per pound of body weight. So if you weigh 175lbs get 123-175g every day in protein.
Whatever calories you are taking in now up it 500 calories.

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I run 2 to 3 miles four times a week. Walk 3 to 5 miles 7 days a week. Do 100 pushups M-F

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That's great. Be sure to do something with hills..... stairstepper, or actual hills....... this is where the Rockies will tear you up if you are not ready to climb hills.

I'll parrot the weight comments: strong endurance legs and cardio have been far more valuable to me than muscle mass for both ruck marches and mountaineering. There are plenty of wiry bodies that are light and unassuming but will absolutely dominate.

Also - don't neglect the core (abs + lower back). Sure, you'll carry the weight primarily on your hips, but the core is where your legs tie in and gives you your stability.

cadetjay02 said:

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Why do you want to stop losing weight before you put it back on? If you want to add mass then lift heavier weight with less reps.
For example-
If I'm just in a maintenance phase and being lazy, stick around 175-185 for 8-10 reps x 3 sets on bench. If I'm feeling frisky and want to see some improvement, I will do a set of that then start increasing to 195-205 and go to 4-6 reps for a couple sets.

For backcountry hunting I would focus on all leg groups and work on shoulders specifically for your pack. When I was in a mountain climbing phase I would take my pack to the gym, load it up with weight and hit the stair climber for an hour.

I really like cleans into a front squat and weighted box jumps as well. I think the dynamic movement would be useful as well.

Sorry for the rambling.

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His pack for this trip should be the type that has a frame/stays that direct the pack weight to his lumbar area, so there shouldn't be weight on his shoulders.

If not, OP you should get a pack like that.

I know where there's a soft sand bar on the Brazos. Dump a gallon of water inside some neoprene waders. Hump it back and forth for an hour and you'll find muscles you didn't know you had.

Kinda joking but hiking in neoprenes is a heck of a workout on our flat ground.

Just giving you a hard time!

harge57 said:

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Whatever 8 to 10 pounds you put on you will lose on your hunting trip.

My advice is to focus more on adaptive performance vs. Weight gain.

Single leg work. Squats. Get your pack on, break your boots in.

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Truth. I lost 13# this fall on a 10 day backpack hunt.

FAT SEXY said:

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A shake weight is what you're looking for, OP


https://i.imgur.com/scJrEoa.gif

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Oh Sharon! An old fashioned.

cupofjoe04 said:

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From someone who lives at altitude, and helps a good many people pack animals out of the mountains each year- don't worry about adding x% of muscle.

Can't tell you how many guys came up here looking great in the gym, trying to add muscle for the pack out, and struggled to get their body up and down the mountain to make a shot in the first place.

You have done a great job of losing unnecessary weight. I'm guessing your lungs and cardio are in good shape too.

Work on adaptive training and dynamic movements.
Get your pack squared away, put weight in it, and start hiking the best elevation you can find (even just bleachers is better than nothing). Work on longer hikes with less weight for stamina and training. Work on shorter hikes (especially downhill) with heavier weight to get your stability and muscles in shape. You have tons of little supporting muscles that you will never really strengthen in a gym, but a mile of heavy bag downhill will show you exactly where your weak links are. Work your core, work on balance (I love single leg work and bosu balls). Keep those lungs and heart in top shape. Eat healthy (as I'm sure you do). POUND WATER leading up to your trip. Start 2 weeks out, and drink so much you get tired of going to the bathroom. Then drink more .

Don't neglect your gear either. Breaking in your boots and pack are just as important as getting your body in shape. Put 100+ miles on your boots before you go. Practice sprinting up a hill, then trying to settle in and make a shot while your heart is pounding. Teach yourself to clam, slow, breath, and focus. Work on your camping set up (if you are doing that) until you can almost do it blind in the dark- because you just might have to. Go over every single oz you plan on carrying with a fine tooth comb.

These are the areas you will be so thankful you focused on.

Good luck!

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This is actually fantastic advice.....from personal experience this year, climbing 1000 ft at 2.5 mile distance in the dark, with a pack, supplies, and a rifle is a bear (no clear trails, under tree limbs, over burned logs, etc.)....and I live at elevation. If you are walking each day, start doing it with a pack.

Since you will be hiking a lot I would focus on HIIT workouts to get your heart rate up and if possible have your weapon (bow or rifle) available so you can work on getting your heart rate down after the end of a set. Use sandbags, kettle bells, and/or dumbbells to do full body workouts.

If you are at 175 now getting up 10 pounds will not be difficult, make sure you focus your diet on protein and healthy fats. Doing some fasting may help you get used to the lack of food you will have available during the hunt.

CS78 said:

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I know where there's a soft sand bar on the Brazos. Dump a gallon of water inside some neoprene waders. Hump it back and forth for an hour and you'll find muscles you didn't know you had.

Kinda joking but hiking in neoprenes is a heck of a workout on our flat ground.

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Ha! you just want to be there to watch me suffer through that!

If you are living in Texas, go hike down in some creek/river bottoms. That is your best bet to get a little elevation gain (short bursts of 10ish feet up and down, but better than flat ground). Also plenty of log jams, uneven ground, mud, water current etc to navigate. Much better way to simulate the type of hiking you will be doing as opposed to hiking up a steep road in your neighborhood or whatever. Blow downs are probably one of the more taxing types of terrain you will have to navigate on the mountain (aside from the obvious steep climbs) so try to train in ways that include climbing over/around things

One foot in front of the other , no matter how good of shape you get in, carrying an elk out is WORK,
Mental toughness .

Going to be difficult to add muscle with that much cardio and that low calorie intake.

I was in your shoes last year preparing for a backpacking trip (49, 6'2" 185#), here's what worked for me. Cut back on the running, keep up the walking, add the backpack with some weight. Start with one of the progressive overload beginner routines at maybe 65% of your max one rep weight. Stronglifts, Starting Strength, there's a bunch out there. Pick one. They're all basically the same. Run them until you'll stop progressing across several of the lifts then switch to an "intermediate" routine like 5/3/1.


You're really after strength - which will manifest in muscle eventually. But if you add a bunch of weight to your squat between now and the trip, you'll be in much better shape, even if the mirror doesn't look like it kept up. You'll have to eat more - as others have said, bulk and cut is the easiest. I can maintain within a 1-2# window by fluctuating carbs, but to set PR's in the weight room consistently, have to be gaining ~2#'s a month. A periodic cut keeps the spare tire under control.

I was in the same situation a 6 years ago. Weight is not your friend. I started at 6'2, 260# and extremely soft aka fat. I ate better and worked out 4 days a week and dropped to about 220# ~20%bf between January and when we left in Oct. I lost another 11# on the trip. Mostly water weight. The next year I kept working starting in Feb. I was very strict on eating and working out. (At least 4 days of weights and 1 of cardio.) I don't remember my starting weight but I was 189# ~15%bf when returning from the trip. That year we packed out an elk 4 miles.

I also gained a lot of strength. I was the strongest I had been since high school. The loss of weight was the biggest factor when getting up and down the mountain.

Couple tips:
Carb load and hydrate the 1-2 weeks before the trip.
Get there a day or 2 early and go on a hike if you are not setting up base camp.

Once you find your bull, fitness is less of a factor. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug. I put on the covid-19+ this year and I flat out ran 2 miles chasing a herd. I got lucky this year and my bull dropped ~300 yards from the road.