Old RV Ag said:

---

MaxPower said:

---

Dunno why it sounds nefarious. Why would anyone even own body armor to begin with if they didn't believe getting shot was a possible future event?

---

As someone who has been shot at a lot there are very specific conditions where one would be in that situation. Other than military or law enforcement, what situation do you see yourself in requiring this?

---

Oh, I don't know....how about a homeowner standing in his front yard with hundreds of trespassing protesters (some armed)? Is this enough of a valid application? Does it meet your personal approval? Damn sure meets mine.

DOG XO 84 said:

---

Old RV Ag said:

---

MaxPower said:

---

Dunno why it sounds nefarious. Why would anyone even own body armor to begin with if they didn't believe getting shot was a possible future event?

---

As someone who has been shot at a lot there are very specific conditions where one would be in that situation. Other than military or law enforcement, what situation do you see yourself in requiring this?

---

Oh, I don't know....how about a homeowner standing in his front yard with hundreds of trespassing protesters (some armed)? Is this enough of a valid application? Does it meet your personal approval? Damn sure meets mine.

---

Well, from a tactical perspective, standing out in the open in your front yard with hundreds of protestors sounds like a pretty poor approach.

Old RV Ag said:

---

DOG XO 84 said:

---

Old RV Ag said:

---

MaxPower said:

---

Dunno why it sounds nefarious. Why would anyone even own body armor to begin with if they didn't believe getting shot was a possible future event?

---

As someone who has been shot at a lot there are very specific conditions where one would be in that situation. Other than military or law enforcement, what situation do you see yourself in requiring this?

---

Oh, I don't know....how about a homeowner standing in his front yard with hundreds of trespassing protesters (some armed)? Is this enough of a valid application? Does it meet your personal approval? Damn sure meets mine.

---

Well, from a tactical perspective, standing out in the open in your front yard with hundreds of protestors sounds like a pretty poor approach.

---

Ok. So they break into your home. Do you now feel it appropriate to wear body armor.? Does OP now have your seal of approval or does the guy have to retreat to the closet first?

DOG XO 84 said:

---

Old RV Ag said:

---

DOG XO 84 said:

---

Old RV Ag said:

---

MaxPower said:

---

Dunno why it sounds nefarious. Why would anyone even own body armor to begin with if they didn't believe getting shot was a possible future event?

---

As someone who has been shot at a lot there are very specific conditions where one would be in that situation. Other than military or law enforcement, what situation do you see yourself in requiring this?

---

Oh, I don't know....how about a homeowner standing in his front yard with hundreds of trespassing protesters (some armed)? Is this enough of a valid application? Does it meet your personal approval? Damn sure meets mine.

---

Well, from a tactical perspective, standing out in the open in your front yard with hundreds of protestors sounds like a pretty poor approach.

---

Ok. So they break into your home. Do you now feel it appropriate to wear body armor.? Does OP now have your seal of approval or does the guy have to retreat to the closet first?

---

I don't think anyone needs a seal of approval to wear body armor. If you want to wear it than go right ahead. I have never once in my life thought that I needed body armor. I don't think it's remotely practical beyond military and law enforcement. But if that's your thing then go for it.

Slackers!

hello friends,

Last year I made the decision to trust my life on the street to Second Chance body armor. I got the level IIa because it stops the most rounds. plus I got the Trauma Plate for the front.
What scares me is that, although I can fit an extra trauma plate in the front, I cannot fit a second one in back. As of late I have taken to duct-taping a second trauma plate to the area of my back where the heart and vital organs are located. Then I put my vest on.

Here is the questions. The ducttape solution, although tactically sound, is hot and painful to remove. I would like to go to the single-plate solution in back. What I am worried about is repeated hits to that area with .308 ammunition. I have a high-risk security job and I fear that I would be the target for repeated long-distance shots to my back.

Are any of you aware of a thicker plate that could stop, say, .338 Lapua or something like that? Is there a better way to do the second plate?
BTW, I am, of course, usually carrying a pair of ceramic plates in my briefcase so that I can shield my head. My SO (we work as a team when necessary) has a similar accessory containing a breakdown NEF single-shot 300 WinMag with an 18 bbl. The plan is that I shield us with my body and "catch the rounds" while she assembles the NEF. I lay down covering fire with my 23 (Bar-Sto .357 Sig barrel) and she makes the long shots. I will then throw smoke grenades to obscure the area while continuing to lay covering fire. The problem, of course, is when I have to turn my back to run, and then the problem crops up.

Thanks!

When SHTF, you never know what form that might take. Could be financial, could be riots, could be war or aliens or whatever. Preparing for the unknown is all about preparing for various things that COULD occur. It doesn't take much imagination to reach the conclusion that having some body armor hanging around might not be a bad idea.

Not sure if someone already answered, but perhaps yes, because depending on the plates you can get spalling (fragments blown off the backside of the plates from the physics of the impact)

JB!98 said:

---

Slackers!

hello friends,

Last year I made the decision to trust my life on the street to Second Chance body armor. I got the level IIa because it stops the most rounds. plus I got the Trauma Plate for the front.
What scares me is that, although I can fit an extra trauma plate in the front, I cannot fit a second one in back. As of late I have taken to duct-taping a second trauma plate to the area of my back where the heart and vital organs are located. Then I put my vest on.

Here is the questions. The ducttape solution, although tactically sound, is hot and painful to remove. I would like to go to the single-plate solution in back. What I am worried about is repeated hits to that area with .308 ammunition. I have a high-risk security job and I fear that I would be the target for repeated long-distance shots to my back.

Are any of you aware of a thicker plate that could stop, say, .338 Lapua or something like that? Is there a better way to do the second plate?
BTW, I am, of course, usually carrying a pair of ceramic plates in my briefcase so that I can shield my head. My SO (we work as a team when necessary) has a similar accessory containing a breakdown NEF single-shot 300 WinMag with an 18 bbl. The plan is that I shield us with my body and "catch the rounds" while she assembles the NEF. I lay down covering fire with my 23 (Bar-Sto .357 Sig barrel) and she makes the long shots. I will then throw smoke grenades to obscure the area while continuing to lay covering fire. The problem, of course, is when I have to turn my back to run, and then the problem crops up.

Thanks!

---

LOL I remember seeing that mall ninja post somewhere... that dude got ROASTED

Gilligan said:

---

BenderRodriguez said:

---

---

This is how you show up to a knife fight!

---

I first read this as how to show up for a knight fight.

This thread seems like one worth dropping this thought into:

A couple observations on human nature:

• We seek out others with similar values, to help us validate our preexisting beliefs.
• No one enjoys being wrong, and everyone is the hero of their own story.
• Therefore, we are more bothered by differing opinions from our selected value group than we ever would be by a different opinion held by "outsiders", because it makes us question previously held internal beliefs, and no one is really comfortable with doing that.

Demonstration of the first point is that we are all on an Aggie forum, and more specifically on an outdoors geared subforum for Aggies. This place is "home" for a lot of us, because it's shared with other people we prefer to self identify with.

Point two and three manifest themselves in really interesting ways when it comes to self defense topics that I have seen play out the same way year after year on multiple forums, not just this one and not just on this topic. My personal theory is that because for most of us "self defense" really means defending our wives and children from harm, any deviation from internal (and what we assume is the group) orthodoxy makes us uncomfortable if we perceive ourselves on the potential wrong side of the Self Defense Gnostic Spectrum (tm).

The Self Defense Gnostic Spectrum can be summed up pretty easily:

Everyone who does less than me is an unprepared idiot (the wrong side)
What I do
Everyone who does more than me is a nutjob

A San Francisco liberal would see anyone who owns a gun as a nut. A guy who only owns a bolt action deer rifle sees the San Fran guy as an idiot who can't provide his own food, but the guy who carries a pistol every day or owns an AR as a nut, and so on and so forth up the line.

This is why threads on body armor or other similar topics always generate the furball they do and lead to name calling etc: Because no one wants to think they might not be doing everything they can for their loved ones, and it's way easier to name call someone doing "more" then it would be to confront our worry that we could be doing more ourselves to protect our families. It's the same reason folks that only carry a J frame or LCP in the pocket will ask "where do you live, Iraq" if someone says they carry a 15+1 round pistol and a reload: because mocking others choices if they do "more" than us is comforting and validates our own premade decisions.

I don't really expect this to change anyone else's behavior or posting, but it has helped me try to reframe my attitude towards how people do things. You're not an idiot if you do less than me, you're not a nut if you do more...you're just a dude doing what you think is best.

Wherever other people fall on that spectrum, I'll keep owning body armor. Chances are slim I will need it, but it's a "nice to have" item for me that I can afford and like to own. Just like my fire extinguisher in the pantry and garage, or my spare tires for every car, etc, etc. Haven't used either of those ever, but...I like having them, just in case. If you don't think it's an important item, I'm not saying you're wrong and won't try to argue that you need it or are unprepared without it. You do you....just as long as you don't support passing laws keeping me from doing any of those things. And if you feel the need to name call and be petty to make yourself feel better about your own choices... I get that too. Whatever helps you sleep at night..as long as you don't make up dumb lies to justify your preexisting beliefs (for example, saying that a plate carrier takes too long to get on to be useful in a home invasion situation. If you want to tell someone you have zero actual experience with body armor there are easier ways to get that message across that require less BS being spread to the general public )

Beyond that: it's a free country, do what you want. You're not a sheep without armor, you're not uber prepared with it. It's just stuff that you can own or not as you wish, because we're an awesome country that doesn't criminalize it. Make your choice and rock on. Just try not to crap on other folks choices to make you feel better about your own decisions. That's weak sauce.

The same can be said for the crossbow compound bow debate

I'm sure there's others but I just woke up

Fishin Texas Aggie 05 said:

---

The same can be said for the crossbow compound bow debate

I'm sure there's others but I just woke up

---

Yep, its universal.

Car guys will argue endlessly over best brand. No one changes anyones mind, everyone is just defending the purchases they already made, and people who aren't car guys give zero craps about any of it.

I think it just hits us in the gut funny on the self defense stuff because no one wants to be doing less than they "should" for their family, so you get more vitriolic reactions to others doing things differently.

Like

Ahhhhhh


Using a shotgun for home defense with federal flite control #4

Not bothered by what people choose.

Still very bothered by completely false and dangerously wrong information used in defense of premade choices (like how impossible it is to teach a woman how to use a rifle compared to a shotgun, how you don't have to aim, that birdshot is safer because it won't penetrate walls, etc).

BenderRodriguez said:

---

This It's the same reason folks that only carry a J frame or LCP in the pocket will ask "where do you live, Iraq" if someone says they carry a 15+1 round pistol and a reload: because mocking others choices if they do "more" than us is comforting and validates our own premade decisions.

---

I just thought this needed to be quoted and repeated.


And maybe posted into a new thread and stickied.

This thread sucks now!

It was kinda like my son watching a Keith Warren video of Warren shooting a whitetail with a .50 BMG. I just kinda shook my head. In the end he said cause I can. And I thought yeah I guess you can. Go fir it.

Okay, now do short guys who buy huge trucks.

MaxPower said:

---

Maybe this is more of a physics question but is there any discernible advantage to two layers of body armor? For example, I have IIIA soft body armor and the carrier has an extra pocket for adding plates. I don't have plates but do have an extra soft armor vest that is also IIIA. Even if not making it more effective against more powerful ammo, would it be more likely to hold up against multiple hits?

---

Now back to your initial question
I have no personal experience, but have searched for info on body armor. I guess I am a Googlezing mall ninja.
I was never in military or law enforcement. So if you want you can ignore me at this point.

What did I read and hear (I am sure you some of this already)
Soft armor is used to stop pistol rounds up to 44 Mag and is lighter and can be concealed.
Hard armor for rifle or less is much heavier, bulky and not concealable.
Handguns and edged weapons are primary threat so law enforcement wears soft armor all the time.
If they go to a shooting scene of unknown threat or barricaded shooter insert rifle plates or put on a rifle plate carrier.
They also make special soft plates inserts for higher velocity personal protection rounds like 7.62x25 Tokarov or 5.7x28.
When watching videos of test shooting soft vests, which typically have 20-30 layers of ballistic material, the bullet only penetrates 5-10 outer sheets the rest are backstop and padding. Also they have more weight and makes things less flexible.
More layers from 2 sets of soft panels is more padding and backstop, but in case you are wondering will not stop rifle rounds.
When Putting a hard panel over a soft, the soft panel becomes padding for the hard outer panel.

You do what you want and wear what you want. It is your life.
If this is wrong then I heard or saw wrong.

BenderRodriguez said:

---

Not bothered by what people choose.

Still very bothered by completely false and dangerously wrong information used in defense of premade choices (like how impossible it is to teach a woman how to use a rifle compared to a shotgun, how you don't have to aim, that birdshot is safer because it won't penetrate walls, etc).

---

Didn't they do a study and found women with similar levels of training are typically better long range shooters? Something about having naturally steady hands (maybe related to a smaller, more efficient heart?).

Anyway, I did not rob a bank this weekend if anyone is concerned. I have enough money so I just have it as a SHTF type scenario. Some people desire to have 50+ guns. That seems sillier to me but I won't judge. I was really just curious more than anything else.

No idea on the long range thing, but I've always found women to be better students when learning how to shoot.

Men tend to have ego tied up in thinking they already know how to do it and tend to ignore good advice.especially when they have no real experience to contradict their ego driven assumptions.

Until their wife/daughter outshoots them, anyway. Then they get smart and start listening to me.

Gilligan said:

---

This thread sucks now!

---

I'm happy to start calling people names again if anyone wants to question why a fellow American should buy what they want on the gun front.

MaxPower said:

---

BenderRodriguez said:

---

Not bothered by what people choose.

Still very bothered by completely false and dangerously wrong information used in defense of premade choices (like how impossible it is to teach a woman how to use a rifle compared to a shotgun, how you don't have to aim, that birdshot is safer because it won't penetrate walls, etc).

---

Didn't they do a study and found women with similar levels of training are typically better long range shooters? Something about having naturally steady hands (maybe related to a smaller, more efficient heart?).

Anyway, I did not rob a bank this weekend if anyone is concerned. I have enough money so I just have it as a SHTF type scenario. Some people desire to have 50+ guns. That seems sillier to me but I won't judge. I was really just curious more than anything else.

---

My personal experience teaching females vs males to shoot is that girls are a lot calmer when it comes time to kill. Girls are more nervous at the range until they get comfortable with what they're doing. Boys are more relaxed at the range and heart rate and breathing are elevated while hunting. The girls I've taught so far (6) are cold blooded killers.

Cool as cucumbers taking headshots at 100 yards.

I find this guys videos informative and highly entertaining. My kinda dry dead pan humor.