Any ideas on last minute trip on devils? Was supposed to go next wed/thur with a guide that just backed out on me and a buddy on a trip we booked last fall...

Probably a hail mary but worth a shot. If anyone knows a guide that could take 2 on the devils for a fly trip next week or sometime soon would be great.

Thanks

Try River Run Guide Service. Can find them on Facebook.

The lady game warden there should have a recommendation. She takes people and guides kid groups occasionally as well. Ally iirc. Good people.

Same thing happened to us a few years ago & we couldn't find anyone else to shuttle us up the Devils. So we called an audible & kayaked the S. Llano instead. Call the Paddler's Porch in Junction & they will take care of you for a fraction of the cost if you still want to get on the water. Sorry the guide cancelled on you, the Devil's is an AMAZING trip!

Thanks...might have to change waters. Was really looking forward to the devils...was going to be our first time down there. Guide stuffed us on half the trip deposit we paid too. Need to talk to some people who've gone a fly trips and recommend fly guides with real experience with them on a devils trip

If the guide really stiffed you on the deposit, let us know who it is. That's ridiculous, and I want to know who not to use if I ever do the Devil's.

F that noise!

The deposit is to protect him from you cancelling.

I personally think it's a shltty move for him to cancel but I know it's a shltty move to keep any of the deposit.

Wow. Canceling the trip and keeping the deposit. That's pretty much theft.

We had the same exact thing happen a few years ago when Charlie Angel and his band of idiots canceled on us 24 hours before our trip. Luckily we were able to work a last minute deal out with Amistad Expeditions to provide us a shuttle.

We have been going down to the devils every year for the last 10 years and have gone through just about every guide/shuttle service available. Amistad Expeditions is by far the most professional. However, if it was AE that canceled on you I would say your SOL. The Llano is a beautiful river and a good backup option. Just be aware the fishing might be a little slow since the river hasn't fully recovered from the flood a few years ago.

We have kayaked & camped just about every river in the hill country. PM me if you need additional information. Good luck

It was Kevin Stubbs- expedition outfitters.

He says we should have taken trip insurance through a 3rd party and fought with them to get our deposit back(less whatever it costs for trip insurance) never had that experience with a guide. If the weathers bad or something comes up they cancel and try and reschedule or just give us our money back.

For whatever reason he got pretty upset that I asked him if we were still going to go and berated me for having my head in the sand for thinking a trip could proceed during the pandemic days after he posts on his Facebook how safe fly fishing with a guide is??

After the experience communicating before the trip where I had to reach out to him every time for updates I wouldn't get in a boat with him if he gave me a free trip on any river and certainly wouldn't recommend to anyone.

Why I chose him was because he offered trips where we weren't camping on the river. If someone has done a trip with a guide on the devils that they enjoyed and would recommend that offers stay in hotel in del rio and go out each day or stay on site at ranch would be ideal.

I floated with a group last year and Amistad Expeditions provided a shuttle to drop us off and pick us up. The AE website shows most of their options are closed (I assume because they use state parks). But it may be worth a call to them and see if they have anything. AE also has kayaks if you need to rent them.

Camping on the islands in the river isn't the most comfortable, but it certainly wasn't that bad either. It was an amazing trip and hope we can go back.

Live_Flyway_Action said:

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It was Kevin Stubbs- expedition outfitters.

He says we should have taken trip insurance through a 3rd party and fought with them to get our deposit back(less whatever it costs for trip insurance) never had that experience with a guide. If the weathers bad or something comes up they cancel and try and reschedule or just give us our money back.

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Did you sign any paperwork or contracts that discussed the treatment of the deposit?

Live_Flyway_Action said:

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It was Kevin Stubbs- expedition outfitters.

He says we should have taken trip insurance through a 3rd party and fought with them to get our deposit back(less whatever it costs for trip insurance) never had that experience with a guide. If the weathers bad or something comes up they cancel and try and reschedule or just give us our money back.

For whatever reason he got pretty upset that I asked him if we were still going to go and berated me for having my head in the sand for thinking a trip could proceed during the pandemic days after he posts on his Facebook how safe fly fishing with a guide is??

After the experience communicating before the trip where I had to reach out to him every time for updates I wouldn't get in a boat with him if he gave me a free trip on any river and certainly wouldn't recommend to anyone.

Why I chose him was because he offered trips where we weren't camping on the river. If someone has done a trip with a guide on the devils that they enjoyed and would recommend that offers stay in hotel in del rio and go out each day or stay on site at ranch would be ideal.

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Nuke his ass on every relevant website and reviews section you can find. Tell your entire story. Write it in MS Word so you can save it and copy paste to make yourself more efficient across all sites. Set reminders in your phone calendar to remind you to repost every few weeks/months, etc., just change the wording slightly from your copy paste to keep it time relevant. Make sure your info is documented, so if .IF he has the balls to come at you can shut that down too and have new info to nuke him harder with.

He screwed you. That's how he rolls. Roll back, harder.

Old Sarge said:

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Live_Flyway_Action said:

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It was Kevin Stubbs- expedition outfitters.

He says we should have taken trip insurance through a 3rd party and fought with them to get our deposit back(less whatever it costs for trip insurance) never had that experience with a guide. If the weathers bad or something comes up they cancel and try and reschedule or just give us our money back.

For whatever reason he got pretty upset that I asked him if we were still going to go and berated me for having my head in the sand for thinking a trip could proceed during the pandemic days after he posts on his Facebook how safe fly fishing with a guide is??

After the experience communicating before the trip where I had to reach out to him every time for updates I wouldn't get in a boat with him if he gave me a free trip on any river and certainly wouldn't recommend to anyone.

Why I chose him was because he offered trips where we weren't camping on the river. If someone has done a trip with a guide on the devils that they enjoyed and would recommend that offers stay in hotel in del rio and go out each day or stay on site at ranch would be ideal.

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Nuke his ass on every relevant website and reviews section you can find. Tell your entire story. Write it in MS Word so you can save it and copy paste to make yourself more efficient across all sites. Set reminders in your phone calendar to remind you to repost every few weeks/months, etc., just change the wording slightly from your copy paste to keep it time relevant. Make sure your info is documented, so if .IF he has the balls to come at you can shut that down too and have new info to nuke him harder with.

He screwed you. That's how he rolls. Roll back, harder.

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This. If he cancelled your trip and told you the deposit was nonrefundable, you should blast him on his FB page. The least he could do is offer a rain check to make things right, or just give you your damn hard earned money back.

File a police report for theft. You cant cancel on someone who paid you a deposit and keep their money. See if you can file a lein on his property or business assets for the theft too.

FatZilla said:

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File a police report for theft. You cant cancel on someone who paid you a deposit and keep their money. See if you can file a lein on his property or business assets for the theft too.

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1. It's a civil matter.
2. you can't just go around filing liens. that's how you get a suit filed against you for slander of title or violation of CPRC 12.002

I had to look at the outfitter after this thread. Has anyone been on the Devils river in a boat this big?



I've heard the portage on the Devils was hell in a small kayak. That thing must be a royal pain in the rear. The guides are earning their money if they are lugging that thing around. (When they don't cancel and keep your money at least)

Edit to add the pic of that thing going over Dolan falls.

I am disputing the charge with the credit card company and will probably be done with it with that either way that turns out which probably won't go my way since we paid for half the trip 7 months ago.

What I really hate is my buddy is out money for a trip I set up.

Still want to go to the devils though so please let me know if you have personal experience with a good guide for fly trip that doesn't require multiple days on water and camping on river bed. May have to be this fall or next spring I'm guessing.

Honestly, if you have any sort of writings related to the deposit, I'll look at them. This isn't my normal wheel house, but I could at least give you a heads up on whether you're entitled to a refund or if you may or may not prevail in a suit to recover the deposit.

I'd post this story on every single TX related outdoors/fishing related forum available. It helps other from being screwed over by this *******.

Looks inflatable. Probably weighs nothing.

Here is an old review of this dude from Texas Fishing forum. I'd post youR story there.

https://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/8078882/Kevin_Stubbs_guide_service_rev

CharlieBrown17 said:

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Looks inflatable. Probably weighs nothing.

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I have a drift boat very similar to this and it's easily manageable with a couple of adults (Probably at least 150lbs empty) but if I were to spend hours portaging I would leave it at home for sure. Now if I was paying a guide to hump it all over the shallow water that would be a different story because it makes an awesome and comfortable fishing platform. I was just curious if anyone on here had attempted this.

Thanks hbc

Here is a link to the terms & conditions on his site:

http://www.expedition-outfitters.net/id67.html

Here is what was in the invoice he sent when we paid the deposit:

Terms and Conditions: Expedition Outfitters requires a 50% prepayment to confirm reservations at the time of booking. In the event of weather related cancellation, prepayments may be eligible for reimbursement from third party "trip cancellation insurance companies." Expedition Outfitters strongly recommends purchase of "trip cancellation/interruption insurance." Please see links below for third party firms offering this type of coverage (it's usually about 5% of total trip price). Trip payments are not refundable but they may be transferable to mutually agreeable dates. If the clients need to reschedule for personal reasons, we require sufficient time to resell the dates and stand down if the trip is eligible for reschedule. The final trip balance payment is due and payable 10 days prior to trip start date. If a trip reservation states a specific guest head count, the total trip cost remains the same even if head count is reduced.

Please go to the link below for trip cancellation/interruption insurance.

www.travelguard.com

Wait, so his Ts&Cs basically allow him to cancel every trip he ever books and push clients off to Trip Cancellation Insurance?

STX Ag said:

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Wait, so his Ts&Cs basically allow him to cancel every trip he ever books and push clients off to Trip Cancellation Insurance?

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To be fair he clearly states that the trip fees are non-refundable which is basically standard for any guide service I have ever used. The key here is that he is suggesting that they are transferable to a mutually agreed upon date which it sounds like he is not honoring. The other issue is that by all accounts he is not dealing in good faith which is the lifeblood in his business because behavior like this can cause him serious reputational damage that is far more significant than the cost of a single trip. By the time this thread alone goes below the fold, it will have been viewed by hundreds just checked should have said thousands of potential customers. And that is without even going to yelp or other fishing forums.

He says they "may be" transferable, meaning he doesn't have to if he doesn't give a f%&k. And I've never heard of a guide, with the exception of maybe one or two rogue scumbag POS, who wouldn't refund in full if THEY were the ones that had to cancel, not the client.

They way I'm reading it is this guy has given himself Carte Blanche to keep cancel trips and keep deposits.

STX Ag said:

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He says they "may be" transferable, meaning he doesn't have to if he doesn't give a f%&k. And I've never heard of a guide, with the exception of maybe one or two rogue scumbag POS, who wouldn't refund in full if THEY were the ones that had to cancel, not the client.

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Don't get me wrong. I am by no means defending this guy. I agree that he is destroying his reputation and that kind of damage can't be easily fixed.

I would just add that I write contracts as part of my job and you always use language that favors you not the other party. It's not the contract that is unusual here but how he is dealing with the issue. The only correct thing for him to do if he is the one who canceled is to provide a full refund or reschedule at the guests discretion.

I agree with all of that, although I'd say his contract is overly favorable to him in this case. Also, I'd be curious if the TCs and invoice were provided before payment, or after. OP says it was an invoice, but that it was provided after the deposit was paid.

Not sure trip insurance covers for the company cancelling for no given reason. Plus he really only addresses weather for insured cancellations.

But, as my attorney spouse tells me, ' the principle of the matter can be a very expensive hill to die on.'

Yeah, the T&C's aren't great. I wouldn't say it's a sure thing one way or the other. Ultimately, I'd argue it's not weather related and you aren't cancelling the trip, so it's up to him to either provide the service or refund the money. Could have a possibly deceptive trade practices act claim otherwise.

Live_Flyway_Action. PM me

I won't be pursuing legal action. Yes I believe we were wronged but the $450 we each put up would be the lesser of legal fees rather quickly.

He cancelled saying he doesn't have access to tpwd land and can't abide by cdc guidelines on travel and on the raft we were going to fish out of.

Hope that is a throwaway addy. Otherwise, edit that email to have spaces and 'at' instead @ or all kinds of scraper programs are going to harvest that and start spamming you.

Your cc company will get your money back. You didn't sign anything acknowledging his refund/no refund policy?

You have to sign it acknowledging you understood it.

My friend had a lady purchase tires. Moved to NM supposedly. Disputed the charge saying she didn't like the tires. He had a signed sales slip and copy of her license. CC company ruled in her favor because his policy wasn't signed. It was on his website. He gave full refunds on all tire purchases if the customer wasn't happy.

She kept the money and the tires. True story. If you read those long receipts you get there's some crazy stuff in there.

You really do need to review that guy. What he's doing is wrong.