This book is so deep. If you have seen the movie it is ok because it's pretty much in line with the book. The most interesting this to me is how much more I learn about this every time. I find the older I get them perspective this piece of amazing American literature brings to my life.

When I was a kid it was really just the fly fishing that brought me to the book. While I still love to fish I have a different perspective now after I have had children and had to overcome some difficulties. Plus I think that the loss of my father some years ago makes some of the message come through with more potency. I bring this up because I wonder how many have read it and how many others is resonated with.

I have two teen boys. One is wild and one goes along because of teen pressure. It makes me think of Norman and Paul taking the boat and going over the falls. Paul is paddling with all of his might towards what will be a defining drop and looks back to Norman who while willing to commit seems to be hesitant knowing that it is not a good idea. It makes me think of my boys.

Anyway. I just thought we might discuss the book and movie and see what your thoughts were.

One other thing. I love Reverend McClains sermon.

"Each one of us here today will at one time in our lives look upon a loved one who is in need and ask the same question: We are willing to help, Lord, but what, if anything, is needed? For it is true we can seldom help those closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. And so it is those we live with and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding."

Very relatable to my situation with my kids.

It is why I only use a hills brother coffee can for my worms.

Duncan Idaho said:

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It is why I only use a hills brother coffee can for my worms.

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That phrase about the words on the rocks is amazing.

The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs.

He makes a point to say that when they find Paul dead that both of his hands are broken.

Did he break them fighting to the death or did the gangsters break them as some sort of message about owing them money?

I take it as he went down fighting. Asked that same question before though.

Newoldarmy said:

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OHe makes a point to say that when they find Paul dead that both of his hands are broken.

Did he break them fighting to the death or did the gangsters break them as some sort of message about owing them money?

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Thought it was only one hand because the father asks which hand it was. Think that implied the father wanted to understand the message which was sent. It's been many years, but I think the brother responds it was his right hand. Now, was that a religious symbol, or was it due to his being a newspaper writer, ....? Again, been many years so I may not remember it fully.

Edit: found it. It was only his right hand.

BTHOB-98 said:

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One other thing. I love Reverend McClains sermon.

"Each one of us here today will at one time in our lives look upon a loved one who is in need and ask the same question: We are willing to help, Lord, but what, if anything, is needed? For it is true we can seldom help those closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. And so it is those we live with and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding."

Very relatable to my situation with my kids.

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This is one of my favorite quotes of all time. Used it in my fathers eulogy.

Definitely I.P. Freely's best work.

Happy Father's Day!

One of my favorite movies, have the book and read it once but i remember enjoying the "and other short stories" better than the book. Sounds like it's due for another read

My recollection of the broken hand was was that it was a mob loan shark kinda thing, but i never figured out whether they killed him because they were trying to punish him by smashing up his hand and he wouldn't let them, or if they were going to kill him anyway and the hand was a message

I still make the point that the first chapter of that book will teach a man how to fly cast

Definitely misremembered that. Thanks!

About to start on Turner Classic Movies at 4:45. Good timing.

One of my all-time favorites. One of the only books I actually remember reading in HS. Lol.

I can see that. I always thought it was due to him getting beat to death, but smashing his own hand up fighting back.

I think it was his writing hand. Killed him because of his debts and the writing hand was a final insult.

One of they few times I've enjoyed a movie more than the book. I'm a fly fisher but I found the author insufferably arrogant.

I always get this movie mixed up with Legends of the Fall. Both great movies.

Newoldarmy said:

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That phrase about the words on the rocks is amazing.

The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs.

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Never read the book but probably ought to. I love the movie.
I guess I'll be that guy though The last sentence of that quote however....I defy anyone to tell me WTF it means. I've had this discussion for years with friends. For the life of me I'm convinced it's just some flowery language the author threw in there that's meant to sound profound but is nothing more than gibberish in reality.

That movie might have had the single biggest impact to fly fishing industry. Before the movie, not many fly fished. After the movie, many middle aged men bought fedora hats and expensive fly fishing equipment pretending to be Brad Pitt.

About time when I went strictly to spin cast.

Book is always better

Newoldarmy said:

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He makes a point to say that when they find Paul dead that both of his hands are broken.

Did he break them fighting to the death or did the gangsters break them as some sort of message about owing them money?

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I always took that as if Paul was a fishing artist. The father was worried about the hand because it's like they destroyed the brush. Maybe it was about him being a writer but I do not think so. I think it was about his taking fishing to a place that not many had at the time. If you are a fly fisherman this makes more sense. The fly cast is about art not about fish. Anyone can put a worm on a hook and catch fish.

Even in the beginning it talks about the father thinking that no man who does not know how to properly catch a fish should be allowed to. I am paraphrasing.

The dad was prob asking because he wanted him to have put up a good fight at the end.

Combine writing and fly fishing, and you're surprised at arrogance!?

BTHOB-98 said:

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I always took that as if Paul was a fishing artist. The father was worried about the hand because it's like they distorted the brush.

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I like this idea...also in the intro to the movie where the old man is fishing they have a couple of really close in shots of his hands, like it's showing that they are the fly fisherman's tools. I don't know if mclane was consulted on the movie though

Yes I agree that the Dad was asking because he considered that his son had a gift. And hoped he went down fighting. If you liked that book, check out :

A River Runs Through it and Other Stories
by Norman Maclean

I have a son like that.

I always assumed the father was thinking "it's his casting hand" the way we might think it's his "throwing arm" for a pitcher or QB.

If you have a brother, it's likely your relationship mirrors that in the story in some way. I used to wonder how my brother and I could have come from the same parents (I am the Norman). This movie was the first step towards realizing how different siblings can be. Now, I embrace and enjoy the differences in my own kids.

"Their" in that context refers to the people in his life that had died: his parents, brother, and wife.

He's haunted by waters because they connect him to those people and some of that connection is painful.

I had always wanted to take up fly fishing because my grandpa did but this movie and my brother got me off my ass. I read the book too and recall enjoying it but don't remember much more.

Most of the movie was filmed in the Gallatin Canyon I believe. I wade fished there before - beautiful. We've fished around Missoula too and being Presbyterian, we had to visit the church.

I just downloaded the movie to watch on the plane when we start for home tomorrow. I'm looking forward to our time fishing in Montana in August.

Newoldarmy said:

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"Their" in that context refers to the people in his life that had died: his parents, brother, and wife.

He's haunted by waters because they connect him to those people and some of that connection is painful.

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"To him, all good things - trout as well as eternal salvation - came by grace; and grace comes by art; and art does not come easy"

A little Presbyterian humor,

Quote:

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The Burns family ran a general store in a one store town and still managed to do badly. They were Methodist, a denomination my father always referred to as Baptists who could read.

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I grew up in the Methodist Church by the way.