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An unusual Swiss pistol

3,882 Views | 2 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by BenderRodriguez
BenderRodriguez
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AG


At first glance, you're probably completely underwhelmed. I get it.

This gun is often confused for the AT 84S. The more well known 84S is a common Swiss CZ 75 clone, built on parts from Tanfoglio. Even most CZ nuts are only familiar with the later version of the gun. But there were two earlier versions of CZ clones made by ITM, both of which had limited importation to the US, including this one.

In the early 80s, the Czechs knew there was an American demand for the CZ 75 pistol. There were a few ways to get one in the US through clones or through Canadian import, but communist Czechoslovakia was prohibited from importing to the US directly.

To get around that, the Czechs established a relationship with the Swiss firm ITM to produce licensed CZ 75s. The first guns ITM made were exact copies of the pre B 75, rollmarked as CZ 75s, using CZ marked grips, etc. The only difference was the frame rollmark: "Solothurn Switzerland" instead of "made in Czechoslovakia".



Since both the communist Czech government and ITM are now defunct, we may never know exactly what happened. But at some point after ITM began producing 75s, the relationship soured. My theory is that ITM continued production of Pre B spec 75s with their remaining parts on hand, labeling them "AT 84" instead of CZ 75. When their supply of Czech parts ran out, they turned to Tanfoglio in Italy to provide parts, resulting in the well known and common AT 84S, produced on Tanfo parts.

This gun is one of the "second generation" guns: a Pre B 75, made in Switzerland and stamped AT 84. This particular gun was early production, made in '84 and went from Switzerland to Israel, where it served as a police duty gun. It was eventually surplused out and imported by Century Arms. I'm not sure if any AT 84 models were imported directly from ITM to the United States. I don't even know how many 84 models were made before they ran out of parts and switched to Tanfo derived 84S models. In my research, I've so far managed to find only 3-4 second gen guns that I know are in the US, including this one. Same goes for the first generation guns, making this a pretty rare bird in the US.

I thought it was a neat piece of Cold War arms importation history, and an unusual enough gun to be worth adding to my CZ collection. Interestingly, it's not the first oddball CZ that has made it to the US via Israel I own. I also have a unique 75 Compact that was imported from Israel: A compact built on an aluminum PCR frame, with a safety. For those who don't know, most lightweight frame CZ compacts imported to the US only come with a decocker. I'm assuming Israel ordered a bunch of compacts with safeties and CZ slapped together as many as they could build with parts on hand, including PCR frames.





My other oddball, PCR framed compact with a safety



For reference, a AT 84S for comparison. Notice the straight dust cover on the frame...a Tanfoglio feature, that the AT 84 Pre B clone is missing.



Anyway, thought it was a cool and obscure enough gun to be interesting and worth sharing.
BenderRodriguez
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AG
If you prefer videos to my rambling posts, this is the gun I'm talking about. Not me in the video.

munch96
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I like it. Now to find one in the wild for sale at a reasonable price...
BenderRodriguez
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munch96 said:

I like it. Now to find one in the wild for sale at a reasonable price...


Good luck...so far I've confirmed 3 in the US including this one. There's a possible 4th but I'm not 100% sure it's not one of the other two guns that was in someone else's hands at some point.

Granted, that's only the ones posted about online. There could be 200 or 2000 of them out there. But I think the numbers are pretty low.

I've reached out to Century to see if they know how many they imported like mine from Israel. Unfortunately ITM is out of business so there's no way to know how many were made or wound up in the US. I've found a few still around and for sale in switzerland.

It's an odd one, that's for sure.
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