How does the Sig Sauer Rattler/Copperhead not require a Form 1 SBR stamp?

I was under the impression that any "shoulderable" stock/brace that folded/collapsed/telescoped could no longer be classified as a pistol, and as such would require a SBR Form 1?

Last decision/directive was that it depends on the intent of the manufacturer. If they manufacture it as a brace and not a stock, then it's still just a brace. If put on a pistol, it's still a pistol. So the end user shouldering a brace doesn't change what the object is, or it's manufactured intended purpose.

Once you put a stock on it, it becomes an NFA device.

So if I have an AR Pistol, I can put a "brace" on it and dont need my Form 1?

Seems like a gray area and apparently i missed the conversation over the last few years on legalities, etc.

moore42 said:

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So if I have an AR Pistol, I can put a "brace" on it and dont need my Form 1?

Seems like a gray area and apparently i missed the conversation over the last few years on legalities, etc.

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If it started life as a pistol, basically yes iirc. But once a rifle always a rifle, and putting anything shorter barrel length than 16" (total barrel length) would still have to comply with NFA laws. So if you want to out an actual stock on it, it would have to go through the SBR paperwork.

For example, if you build an AR pistol you can put any brace on it you basically want and it's still a pistol. And how you the end user uses it, whether as an arm brace or brace that you shoulder, it's still a brace. Welcome to the nuances and stupidity of the NFA laws.

Also note that all AR pistols must be concealed. Can't just throw them in the seat like a rifle or SBR.

Thanks for the replies. Now the question is do I file my Form 1 for my pistol to make it SBR while I am waiting on my Form 4.

moore42 said:

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Thanks for the replies. Now the question is do I file my Form 1 for my pistol to make it SBR while I am waiting on my Form 4.

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My opinion on SBRs is after the last ruling, it's not really necessary unless you want to carry it around in the open. The downside of it is that only yourself and others on your trust can be in possession of it. With the braces out now, I can't justify having a SBR.

BCStalk said:

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moore42 said:

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Thanks for the replies. Now the question is do I file my Form 1 for my pistol to make it SBR while I am waiting on my Form 4.

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My opinion on SBRs is after the last ruling, it's not really necessary unless you want to carry it around in the open. The downside of it is that only yourself and others on your trust can be in possession of it. With the braces out now, I can't justify having a SBR.

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+1

Sure you can. I did.

With that form that is signed by the atf. I am guaranteed not to be questioned about the legality of my rifle from any level of law enforcement. Well not questioned. They still could. But my form 1 is the end of the discussion.

Can I shoulder can't I shoulder? Don't have to worry about that.
Is that a Vertical fore grip? Don't have to worry about that either.

Pistol braces are good., I have two pistol lowers (they're so cute) But nothing beats a true b5 systems or bcm or Magpul stock. Sorry but no

True story.

Friend of a friend dropped off his pistol lower at the gunsmith. He took off the upper and put in the back seat of the car. He also had his 16 inch rifle in the back seat. Got pulled over. Gives his chl to the officer. Yes rifles in back seat. Yada yada.

Officer questions him on why there is a sbr upper in the back and questions if he has intentions of swapping the lower to the sbr upper. Most officers I know have multiple firearms, this policeman was no different. His question was legitimate and he could have been a jerk and called in an atf agent if the guys story didn't jive. I believe the friend of a friend had the claim ticket and is a law abiding cat. Simple misunderstanding but what if the policeman wasn't an enthusiast?

Of course he tells the officer that he just dropped the pistol lower off at gunsmith. Officer calls the gun store to confirm the story.

Point is. You still have certain instances that can pop up that can be a waste of time.

With that doc signed by the atf. All questions are over.

So yes. I'd sbr it while I wait. The two other pistol lowers are being form 1d as well

The best part. To finalize your form 1. You have to e engrave/etch your name and the city state where the lower was form1d. It's up to you where. On the magwell, next to the safety. On the trigger guard. Front of the magwell. Up to you. Can be discreet or can have it right on the magwell for all to see. It's completely up to you.

SteveMedina said:

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Sure you can. I did.

With that form that is signed by the atf. I am guaranteed not to be questioned about the legality of my rifle from any level of law enforcement. Well not questioned. They still could. But my form 1 is the end of the discussion.

Can I shoulder can't I shoulder? Don't have to worry about that.
Is that a Vertical fore grip? Don't have to worry about that either.

Pistol braces are good., I have two pistol lowers (they're so cute) But nothing beats a true b5 systems or bcm or Magpul stock. Sorry but no

True story.

Friend of a friend dropped off his pistol lower at the gunsmith. He took off the upper and put in the back seat of the car. He also had his 16 inch rifle in the back seat. Got pulled over. Gives his chl to the officer. Yes rifles in back seat. Yada yada.

Officer questions him on why there is a sbr upper in the back and questions if he has intentions of swapping the lower to the sbr upper. Most officers I know have multiple firearms, this policeman was no different. His question was legitimate and he could have been a jerk and called in an atf agent if the guys story didn't jive. I believe the friend of a friend had the claim ticket and is a law abiding cat. Simple misunderstanding but what if the policeman wasn't an enthusiast?

Of course he tells the officer that he just dropped the pistol lower off at gunsmith. Officer calls the gun store to confirm the story.

Point is. You still have certain instances that can pop up that can be a waste of time.

With that doc signed by the atf. All questions are over.

So yes. I'd sbr it while I wait. The two other pistol lowers are being form 1d as well

The best part. To finalize your form 1. You have to e engrave/etch your name and the city state where the lower was form1d. It's up to you where. On the magwell, next to the safety. On the trigger guard. Front of the magwell. Up to you. Can be discreet or can have it right on the magwell for all to see. It's completely up to you.

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Or, has been said numerous times on this site when AR pistols and rifles come up, don't store an upper greater than 16 inches with a lower in a pistol configuration - regardless if the rifle upper is on a rifle lower. If you're going to dabble in the "pistol arts", you need to know the rules.