Building a home on 8+ acres. Nearest fire station is 20-25 min. New one being built closer. However, I also have 2 water sources on site:

Ground water w/1800g cistern
Rain water w/30,000g cistern (when full)

Would it be useful to have a fire hose connection at either water source? Would a fire truck hook into one, give it's an unknown source (for them).?

TLDR: Water, rural living, fire fighting. Thoughts?

Are you wanting fire suppression for wildland or internal home?

You can install a residential fire sprinkler system within your home. For outside, you would need a pump and hose connection to produce a viable supply. Ask your local VFD how much PSI they need for their brush trucks.

ETA::Try to match the flow of a brush truck and you'll atleast be able to attack your perimeter. Just ensure you use it monthly or so with your hoses to ensure readiness and clean operation.

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Passive fire resistance - materials you choose (insulation, wall, roof, windows, doors, fences, decks, etc.), design, proper fire-blocking in walls, etc.

Active fire resistance - sprinklers, etc. can be installed, just like you have in commercial buildings

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This is what I was thinking as well. Building materials are key.

There are lots of online resources for "firewise landscapes". Such as:
file:///C:/Users/Chad/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/IE/XY0FXKGR/Firewise-Landscaping-in-Texas.pdf

When I do rural houses with irrigation systems, I'll generally recommend a few stations around the perimeter of the yard to keep things green & maintained as a fire buffer.

Thanks for responses. The fire suppression of the indoor house building portion is complete. Just needed to know if fitting any of my water sources with specific connections would be useful for external or wildfire. I'll contact local FD to ask as well.

LiveOak said:

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Thanks for responses. The fire suppression of the indoor house building portion is complete. Just needed to know if fitting any of my water sources with specific connections would be useful for external or wildfire. I'll contact local FD to ask as well.

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Do you have a stock tank nearby? The FD can always pump/refill from that, if need be.

Stock tank isn't close.

Rain cistern 50 yards from house

Ground water 100

From my buddy who is an EO for a FD.

The fire department is 20-25 minutes away and rural department response times are slow. A fire can double in size every 30 seconds. If the fire is big enough to call in, then the house would be gone before the fire department arrived. I would suggest that he maintains his fire insurance and forget about the firefighting issue. He would be much better off spending his money on an AED since he is so remote.

Thanks for the offer.

20-25 min. Hilly and no straight shot to me. As the crow flies, only 12 miles.

Development in the area is resulting in another one being built much closer. New one, when ready, will only be 3 miles away and a straight shot to my house.

This. Having an in ground swimming pool will reduce my home owners insurance.

A few years ago our cabin near Creede was threatened by a large forest fire. The forest service fire fighters set portable bladder tanks next to vulnerable houses complete with centrifugal pumps, hoses and sprinkler nozzles. They laid the hoses out and aimed the sprinklers appropriately. Here is a link to the tanks.

https://www.sei-ind.com/products/fireflex-pumpkin-tank/

Did you Volunteer at Cypress Creek Station 23 back in the day?

If so, we fought fire together.

Volunteer FF here... 7 Years in Beeville, currently with Spring FD.

The rural departments will start suppression with the water in the tank carried by the Engine. A tanker will be immediately following. That tanker will either hook up to the engine or will deploy a foldable ground tank near the Engine and dump their water into that tank. The Engine will draft from the ground tank while the tanker runs back to town. Generally you'll have at least two tankers shuttling water to the scene. The FD's tankers will carry upwards of 3,000 -- 3,500 gallons of water. They can also use brush trucks to haul water, carrying upwards of 1,000 gallons, but those aren't typically equipped for quick discharge. If the tanker hooks up to the engine, other tankers and brush trucks will keep that truck full. I've done it both ways, with success (from a sustainable water supply standpoint).



In this photo you can see a tanker using his dump valve to fill the portable tank. The guys behind the tank are deploying the rigid hose for drafting. That device on the end prevents the hose from sticking to the bottom of the tank and prevents whirlpools from entraining air into the hard suction. The white hose is attached to a discharge and can be used to prime the draft.

Swimming pools and cisterns are great sources of water, IF the FD can get a truck close to them to draft from them. You can't draft with soft sided hose, it has to be rigid. Otherwise the hose will just collapse under the suction.

For defense from a wild fire, your best friend is a defensible perimeter. Keep the yard mowed, even during teh dry times when its not green. Just keep it mowed and keep brush away from the house. Several years ago a moron burning trash didn't monitor his fire and it got out of his burn barrel. It quickly spread to the field behind was off to the races. 200 yards north (strong south wind) was a cross street with homes. These rural tracts were all a couple acres. The tract to the east had 3ft tall dead grass all the way to the trailer. The adjacent tract to the west, the grass was equally dead but still mowed with a cut height of 2-3 inches. The fire NEVER spread into the mowed grass. We lost the trailer in the deep grass. Had the grass been mowed, the fire wouldn't have spread to the trailer. Had there been a proper perimeter around the burn barrel, that morons fire would have never gotten out. Stupid started the fire. Lazy cost one family their home.

When you build your driveway and gate!!! We can't effectively fight your house fire if we cant get through your gate! It's a sinking feeling knowing the house just up the driveway is burning and we're doing an 8 point turn trying to line up with your driveway. We need width and height. Chief doesn't like it when I rip antennas or light bars off the truck.

Like others have said, if you dont have a sprinkler system installed the FD is not going to be able to save your house that far out, unless you decide to retrofit.

For anyone who is planning on building a house in the future, a residential sprinkler cost averages about $1.60 a sqft and is the single most effective way to save lives and your property in the event of a fire. Couple that with hard wired smoke alarms and you're about as safe as you can be without sleeping on bricks with no electricty.

https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/Campaigns/Fire-Sprinkler-Initiative/Benefits-of-home-fire-sprinklers

Most important to you know is to maintain and test your smoke alarms. A good schedule for testing that is easy to remember is each time we change the clocks. And, if they start beeping instead of taking it off the wall until you can get to it stop what you're doing and go replace the battery. Too many times we find smoke alarms off the wall and on a shelf where somebody pulled it off the wall thinking they'd get to it in a bit. If you don't hear that constant annoying beep chances are you're going to forget about it.

I will add that insisting that your home is wired to commercial standards, will help - and for a very small cost increase. (Order the cable online, and its about the same price that the electrician is paying for the Romex at his local supplier.)

We had a floating gasoline powered pump to drop in the pool, growing up.

Never used it for a fire, but it made a heck of a mess and knocked a couple boys into the pool, when they decided to use it to wash the pool deck...

Question for firefighters - rural pier and beam ship lap home,1913 hole, remodeled 1994.

I would say wiring quality is 'iffy' but it's still here.

Had to get rid of the pool due to floods. I did use to keep a 5 horse pump and 3" hose around but it's deploy time and reach were marginal. Lost 3 of those to floods too.

Not in a likely brushfire area, in Houston region.

What's the best way to assess fire risk?

How big a fire can you put out with 2-3 decent fire extinguishers and whatever you can get from a bathroom or kitchen?

We don't keep space heaters or extension cords plugged in.

Our sockets have only once shown any signs of heat or charring, that was from Xmas lights.

Thanks for any responses.

Cement home

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How big a fire can you put out with 2-3 decent fire extinguishers and whatever you can get from a bathroom or kitchen?

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A LOT!

The little 2.5lb Kiddie extinguishers you buy at WalMart will easily handle your average kitchen fire even as it's starting to spread.

Personally, I'd step up a few bucks and the get the 5lb Amerex Class ABC extinguishers you see in your offices and commercial spaces. They're refillable for a nominal fee.

I'd say to put a 5lb ABC unit in the kitchen, utility room, & wherever your water heater is. Wouldn't hurt to have some 2.5lb ABC's in bathrooms (under the vanity or in a linen closet). I'd also vote for a 10lb unit in the garage.

Outdoors I'd buy a 2.5 gallon water can. A squirt of dawn, 2.5 gallons of water, and you pressurize it with your air compressor. No lie, fun for the whole family and costs you nothing to train with. These are worth their weight in gold. SInce you can refill them at home there should NEVER be hesitation to train with it or use it. Also, unlike ABC dry chemical extinguishers, the water is far superior for light weight fuels such as grass. I've seen dry chems spread a small grass fire (ended up being just over 200 acres) caused by someone welding on a gate. They move so much air propelling the extinguishing agent they can blow light fuels around and spread embers.

More than you want to know about extinguisher ratings...
Class A -- Wood paper (think anything that produces ash)
Class B -- Liquid fuels
Class C -- Electricity and energized equipment
Class D -- Metals (magnesium, lithium, etc) these are usually dry powders and are applied with a scoop. They can also be metal specific.
Class K -- Kitchen oils, bunch of really cool chemistry with these as they chemically react with the oil/grease via saponification.
You'll see some ratings such as 3A40BC. This gives you an idea of it's capability in the hands of an unskilled operator. Each "A" is the equivalency to 1.5 gallons of water. Each "B" is the number of square feet the unit can be expected to cover in a liquids fire. C does not get a numerical value as it's just an indication that the agent used is non-conductive.

Amerex Fire Extinguishers -- Amazon (most prime eligible)

Begin your Nerd Out on Portable Fire extinguishers here

Don't waste your money on any Walmart level fire extinguishers. Pay the extra for a real one with a metal needle and seat, as said above. Any with a plastic needle valve will leak and be empty when you need them. Especially if they have been in a vehicle that is cycling hot/cold.

Oh yes...
To CanyonAg77's point about extinguishers in vehicles... take them out from time to time and shake them vigorously. The vibration can cause the agent to settle and pack in so that it won't get picked up and discharged when you squeeze the lever.

Good valid point but many rural homes like ours have our own well and in lots of areas the wells are not capable of high GPM so you are limited to your pressure tank unless you have an alternate water storage source and a pump to supply the GPM needed for the sprinkler system.
It's not living in a city where you have a municipal water system with the working pressures and GPM availability.
When we built our home we contacted three fire/safety companies to have them recommend how to put in a sprinkler system. They all said we would need to have a dedicated water tank with a pump that would operate just the sprinklers as the house well and pressure pump would not last long enough to make a difference.
They each said we would have to have a dedicated plumbing system with separate pipes, valves, tank. pump etc. to install the system which was very costly compared to having a system installed in a urban home utilizing the existing planned plumbing. Also they also brought a good point up in the fact that many rural structure fires are the result of brush/grass fires that get out of control or from adjacent barns/ shops and that the sprinkler system in the house would not help much if the fire originated from the outside.
They were the ones who suggested the large tanks and the pump instead so that is what we ended up doing.
If I would have had the water system to be able and have sprinklers I would have done it no question. as you say.

cbr said:

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Question for firefighters - rural pier and beam ship lap home,1913 hole, remodeled 1994.

I would say wiring quality is 'iffy' but it's still here.
What do you mean by iffy? Are you experiencing issues that make you think that?

What's the best way to assess fire risk?
Primarily if you are having any issues with outlets or appliances you should replace the outlet or appliance, if the appliance is something large like a refridgerator, hvac, etc. you should have it fixed by a qualified repairman. Do not let the repairman make a temporary fix until they get the right components!!!

Common outlet issues I see: plugs dont stay in or are loose, signs of thermal degredation (color change, black soot, etc.) outlet doesnt work anymore, breakers trip when you plug something in.

How big a fire can you put out with 2-3 decent fire extinguishers and whatever you can get from a bathroom or kitchen? Good size as long as you use it correctly, P.A.S.S. point, aim, squeeze, sweep. Aim at the base of the fire, stay calm, and make an honest assesment of how large the fire is your life is more important than a house get out as soon as you think it's not being hanldled by the extinguisher, pay attention to how much smoke is being produced as well. If you're resorting to running to a faucet for water, get out of the house. I've done numerous fatalities where this exact thing happend.

We don't keep space heaters or extension cords plugged in. - Good, Id recommend that for any appliance that can be easily unplugged toasters, coffee makers, etc. Also, appliances that draw a large amount of current shouldnt be on exension cords either. If you use a space heater plug it in directly to the wall, and especially dont plug it into an extension cord thats on a cord reel.

Our sockets have only once shown any signs of heat or charring, that was from Xmas lights. -
Have you replaced this outlet, if not replace it and examine the romex that provides power to the outlet. If you see any discoloration on the wire cut it back to clean copper and replace the outlet.

GFCI have a shelf life and if you've not replaced them since '94 I would consider replacing them.

***Most importantly as I stated previously, Smoke alarms save lives when you test and inspect them.***

***Also, sleep with your bedroom doors shut. https://closeyourdoor.org

Feel free to ask any other questions.

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Gunny456 said:

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Good valid point but many rural homes like ours have our own well and in lots of areas the wells are not capable of high GPM so you are limited to your pressure tank unless you have an alternate water storage source and a pump to supply the GPM needed for the sprinkler system.
It's not living in a city where you have a municipal water system with the working pressures and GPM availability.
When we built our home we contacted three fire/safety companies to have them recommend how to put in a sprinkler system. They all said we would need to have a dedicated water tank with a pump that would operate just the sprinklers as the house well and pressure pump would not last long enough to make a difference.
They each said we would have to have a dedicated plumbing system with separate pipes, valves, tank. pump etc. to install the system which was very costly compared to having a system installed in a urban home utilizing the existing planned plumbing. Also they also brought a good point up in the fact that many rural structure fires are the result of brush/grass fires that get out of control or from adjacent barns/ shops and that the sprinkler system in the house would not help much if the fire originated from the outside.
They were the ones who suggested the large tanks and the pump instead so that is what we ended up doing.
If I would have had the water system to be able and have sprinklers I would have done it no question. as you say.

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Yeah, I understand what you're saying and I didn't intend to sound critical at all I am impressed you even examined the idea of getting them in the first place. I wish there was a simpler solution to rural homes but a dedicated water supply is pretty much the only way to do that which definitely increases the sqft cost quite a bit.

I intended that my comment be for others to at least examine the potential of a residential sprinkler system when starting new construction.

One thing you may want to consider is getting smoke alarms that are hooked up to a monitoring site, like a burglar alarm but for fire. The time difference to alerting the FD may be enough that some of the valuables/heirlooms/irreplaceables can be saved or salvaged if there is a fire.

It's very true that a wildland fire will not be controlled by a sprinkler system. The best way to mitigate that danger is to keep your yard cut, watered, and keep wood piles etc away from the house. Also keep the roof swept clear of combustibles (leaves, pine needles, etc.)

Wish I could have talked to you when building our house.......I am deathly scared of two things.....tornadoes and fire. When I was child our house caught fire from a faulty heating system. We lived in the country and had it not been for my grandad and dad having a pump and water tank we would have lost everything.
So a large priority of mine when building the house was the best fire prevention plan I could afford.
You are a smart man in this as just last year we had the system put in with all the smoke/fire alarms and a central system. I did not know of such a thing when building and the fire/safety companies I worked with told me nothing about how to do it.
In retrospect....after seeing what happened to my neighbor last week I wish I would have sacrificed something else in the house and put in the dedicated system for the sprinklers in both house and barns/workshop.
As you say it is the best and safest way to go and the best chance to have at saving your house.

The tank/pump system I have is fine.........if I am home in case of a fire............my issue that bothers me is what if I am not home.....all that water in those tanks and that pump is not going to spray itself on the fire!

Seems like you got plenty of answers. To directly answer your question the rainwater collection basin could be used as well as the pump the water shuttle and tank method would be used but most of the time with VFD they all pitch in and you get a lot of different equipment. Go to the closest one and ask what they have to say they wont mind ya stopping by. A house fire doesn't take much water to put out. saving a slab uses a lot of water. As mentioned fire builds rapidly if it goes unchecked.

The water can is a great idea too fun and doesnt cost much past the initial purchase price. ABC work well too.

Most fire we go on are caused by bad/old wiring; space heaters and smokers. If you can avoid those you limit having a fire in your house. Keep a low and well maintained landscape for the outside. Also keep large tree from overhanging.

+1 for the reusable water can.

I picked one up for $20 on Craigslist. Super easy to fill, recharge with an air compressor, and easy to use.

Also great for putting out campfires when you're done camping.

If you go with a water can, check if your department uses foam. Put 2-3 oz of concentrate in the can as a wetting agent. It greatly increases the effectiveness. The modern non protein based foams are stable enough for storage.