Anyone try to build a pole barn using drill pipe for the basic frame? I'm talking a very simple 24x24 or 24x36 barn that is basically covered storage with a 1:4 slope roof, 12 foot spans between posts, and in the area of 12 or 13 foot clearance (for trailer storage).

I have designed some plans for wood construction, but used drill pipe is fairly abundant and cheap, and though I hear it can be tough to weld, it is steel, and there's ALWAYS a way to weld steel with the right welder and technique. Was wondering if 2 7/8 would be overkill or maybe undersized?

I haven't built a barn, but I have built 2 sets of cattle working pens, some horse stalls, fences and gates. Mostly used 2 7/8" oil field tubing. Never any drill pipe.

The tubing is typically carbon steel. The only draw backs are sometimes part of the pipe is thin from rod wear and you'll blow through it while welding. Look to see if there is a thin wall on the pipe and plan accordingly before you cut saddles on it.

I believe drill pipe is also carbon steel, but different metallurgy than tubing. I think it's a much harder compound, so it may not weld as easy. It's also bound to be magnetized as it's job is to turn to the right. I've heard you can wrap your ground lead around it in a spiral to help offset the magnetism.

Set it true north and south for 3 weeks, wrap your ground lead around it and weld away.

nonameag99 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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I have no idea how magnetism would effect welding. Am open to explanations, but I'm skeptical.

On a side note, we had some farm equipment that was made from old oilfield pipe. When we tried to scrap it, it was rejected because it was radioactive. Apparently, a radioactive source was used in some well logging operation, and the pipe still had traces, some 50 years after it left the oil field.

I also learned that scrap yards have Geiger counters. I had no idea.

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Look up NORM

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In my experience, NORM is associated more w production tubing - have not seen NORM in dp. Canyon's explanation could be possible but RA sources are run in a designed and fixed location....so I am trying to figure this one (RA in dp) out. ....production tubing, yes.

To the OP's original Q, slenderness ratio (l / r) would influence your height and span.

"Drill pipe" implies a larger pipe than the 2 3/8" or 2 7/8" production tubing being discussed. "Drill stem", as it's referred to, is much larger and heavier (at 5 1/2" and schedule 80 I think). That is ideal for the "pole", or uprights of a barn, while the tubing is adequate for the rafters/trusses. Tubing should be less affected by magnetism than is drill stem, but it can be. The uprights have less welding than do the trusses.

I believe you'd be fine building a shed type barn exclusively with 2 7/8" tubing, so long as your heights and spans are not "excessive".

Canyon probably had something made from line pipe that handled produced water. The scale that develops from produced water can contain NORM.

I've never heard of a logging tool making tubulars radioactive. Neutron porosity tools are used in non-destructive testing of many materials and they don't turn the materials radioactive.

BoerneGator said:

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"Drill pipe" implies a larger pipe than the 2 3/8" or 2 7/8" production tubing being discussed. "Drill stem", as it's referred to, is much larger and heavier (at 5 1/2" and schedule 80 I think). That is ideal for the "pole", or uprights of a barn, while the tubing is adequate for the rafters/trusses. Tubing should be less affected by magnetism than is drill stem, but it can be. The uprights have less welding than do the trusses.

I believe you'd be fine building a shed type barn exclusively with 2 7/8" tubing, so long as your heights and spans are not "excessive".

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4 1/2" is the most common drill pipe size, although 2 3/8" and 2 7/8" drill pipe are not uncommon for deepening and sidetracking.

Definitely get it NORM checked because you have no clue where the pipe has been used before.

I would imagine most of the welding issues people at home have are because they don't have the right rods or welding procedure to weld the high strength alloys used for drill pipe.

Drill pipe is often 75ksi - 105ksi yield strength. "Typical" steel plate is usually 36 ksi and standard tubing is 50 ksi.

Not sure where you are located but about two months ago I sold a couple hundred tons of scrap drill pipe to Premier Metal Buyers in Brenham. These were manufacturing defects not used pipe. Things like EMI flaws that prevented a piece from being used as drill string. So you won't have any thin wall problems and it was all degaussed.

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In my experience, NORM is associated more w production tubing - have not seen NORM in dp. Canyon's explanation could be possible but RA sources are run in a designed and fixed location....so I am trying to figure this one (RA in dp) out. ....production tubing, yes.

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1. They are not running the types of radioactive sources that what would set off a Gieger counter in steel casing.
2. Even then, the sources are encased in a metal shielding/jacket with a thinner "front" and no actual radioactive material is exposed IRCC.
3. They aren't running any source in 2" or 2 1/2" pipe (2.375 & 2.875 OD)

100% sure this has nothing to do with logging, and everything to do with NORM.

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To the OP's original Q, slenderness ratio (l / r) would influence your height and span.

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Generally speaking, yes. But a crossbrace or gusset can reduce the effective length. You can build a 12' eave height barn with 2" pipe... just don't put anything you want to survive under or downwind of it in event of a major storm. You want something more substantial, I can tell you about the cheapest way to build a 50' x 50' metal barn but it won't have a stamp.

Buy used oilfield tubing, not used drill pipe. You should be able to find 2 7/8" SCH 80 tubing for about 40$ a stick (30-31 ft) but as always it is set by steel price, which is still going up a bit. Used DP will still run much more than this.

As was posted above, DP is generally a much higher strength, and a more exotic alloy (the material is generally gonna be a 41XX or 43XX series steel, and typical land drilling strings are gonna be 105-135 ksi, especially on the smaller sizes). With DP you are also going to have to factor in the larger diffferences in wall thickness, and in order to get consistent thickness you will need to cut off about a foot from the end of the tool joint.

You do have to watch out for thin areas on tubing though, as they are generally not as concentric as DP, and the previously mentioned rod wear.

It may be worth it to get a larger size, or a thicker walled DP, for the corner posts. 4", 4.5", 5", and 5.5" are all pretty common sizes in the Texas land market.

Mark Fairchild said:

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As an OLD drilling hand it is hard to imagine messing with 16.6 pdf 4 1/2 drill pipe to build anything without a very stout forklift. I mean, how on earth are you going to move that stuff? There is smaller DP, but still HEAVY, I would think tubing is much better suited for anything but an industrial crew with very heavy equipment, just sayin'.

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5" 19.50 lb/ft. Go big or go home.

A.G.S. if we need to go Hell For Stout got some 5 1/2" 26 ppf, N80 casing. Set in ground, fill with concrete and will still be there at Second Coming!

Land rig, wussies.

6-5/8" 34 lb R3

Haha. Heck, you could get some old collars too, the scrap value may be a bit higher though!

CanyonAg77 said:

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I have no idea how magnetism would effect welding. Am open to explanations, but I'm skeptical.

On a side note, we had some farm equipment that was made from old oilfield pipe. When we tried to scrap it, it was rejected because it was radioactive. Apparently, a radioactive source was used in some well logging operation, and the pipe still had traces, some 50 years after it left the oil field.

I also learned that scrap yards have Geiger counters. I had no idea.

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As has been said - any radioactivity is almost certainly from NORM and not any enhanced sources. The NORM is contained in the rust & scale residue in/on the pipe - the pipe itself is not radioactive. It can be present in any type of downhole pipe and even some line pipe. When sourcing the pipe just look for the cleanest, least used you can find.

NORM is not much of a health hazard, but as CanyonAg said can be a hassle to get rid of. Landfills and scrap yards generally have radiation meters and they have them set at basically natural background levels or even lower - doesn't take much to set them off. The only concern I would have in using NORM impacted pipe on my property for a barn or fencing, is it might cause problems when selling the property. If the buyer (or their bank) requires an Environmental Site Assessment it is possible they would find/note the NORM.

Depending on where you are located you can rent a NORM meter and check the pipe yourself. It is not expensive and very straightforward to use. I could walk you through it if needed.....

A long time ago (probably 20 years) my dad acquired a load of used drill stem. We used it to build fences and other stuff. PITA to work with because it had so much stuff built up on the inside of the pipe. Anyway, he took what was left to the salvage yard a few years ago and they turned him away because the crap set off their radioactivity sensors. So now, it's all in a pile at the bottom of our property. Call it an experiment of sorts. Waiting for it to glow...

I appreciate the education. This was a very old piece of equipment, a sand fighter for you West Texas cotton guys, and was probably built in the Lamesa area. I was pretty sure it was old oilfield pipe, and knowing how cavalier people used to be about radioactivity, I guessed some source was passed through it. I'm fine with being corrected.

A related story, I worked at a USDA research station, and we used water meters with a neutron source to check soil moisture. Used a core sampler to make a two inch by six foot hole, then drive a piece of tubing into the ground, leaving about four inches above ground. The meter sat on that, which released a catch, allowing the nuetron source to drop through the open bottom on a cable. The cable had stops at regular intervals, which allowed us to get readings at each foot of depth or whatever.

It was not a strong source, but we always carried it in the back of the pickup, and limited our exposure. We also wore film badges to check our doses, though I heard of one technician in Arkansas who stored his badge with the meter in the same case. Yeah, he got a call from the health guys.

One summer, I sent my college intern out to check a field. As he came back, I stopped him to relay further instructions. He had the neutron probe on the front seat right next to him, open end pointed at his hips. I said, "Intern name, don't you want to have kids?"

"It's okay, it's turned off."


He did have kids later, one of which was a very smart and pretty girl in Bender's grade all through school. So, no harm, I guess.

CanyonAg77 said:

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I have no idea how magnetism would effect welding. Am open to explanations, but I'm skeptical.

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I had no idea either....

"Magnetism and arc blow can cause welding problems when welding pipe particularly for pipelines. This has been extensively documented by a number of studies by people and organizations. The pipeline research committee of the American Gas Association had Proctor Inspection Consultants in Houston, Texas do investigations into this. A paper was published in March 1980 as a result of this work (Reference #1). The explanation of magnetic force, field generation associated with pipeline inspection pigs, geomagnetic fields and magnetic energy are covered in that document."

http://www.westerninstruments.com/Dec2016Revisions/Demag%20Paper.pdf

Man I love TexAgs OB.

Yeah, it really is where "TexAgs knows stuff". Well, here and history. A celebrated author and expert on WWII Japanese Navy posts on history and also Politics. Good guy, even if his degree is from Lubbock.

Edit: forgot to add, his username is "titan".

https://books.google.com/books/about/Battle_of_Surigao_Strait.html?id=NFyJMsf2Y_MC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button

CanyonAg77 said:

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Yeah, it really is where "TexAgs knows stuff". Well, here and history. A celebrated author and expert on WWII Japanese Navy posts on history and also Politics. Good guy, even if his degree is from Lubbock.

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Haven't ever made it over to the history board, but will have to check it out. 'Preciate the tip.

Magnetism can affect the pipe by altering the flow of current - more pronounced if you use a DC welder. Typically the cracking occurs outside the weld zone as the pipe structure moves while cooling.

Drill stem pipe comes in several grades. E grade is 80ksi tensile strength, X is 95ksi tensile strength, G is 105ksi, S is 115ksi.

80ksi usually doesn't present a problem with welding as it's a low alloy steel (close to mild steel, i think it's even called that in industry). The other grades tend to have a higher nickel and chromium content, which makes welding more difficult.

Best bet is to preheat the weld area - 400dF or higher. Helps burn off any residual hydrogen that is trapped. Especially helpful if the pipe was used in any type of sour service. Use a low hydrogen rod 7018LH or a low hydrogen process like a MIG XX15 or XX16 wire, and weld on AC current at high heat for good penetration.

If you can peen or control cooling with insulation wraps, you'll reduce any chance of cracking considerably.

CanyonAg77 said:

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I appreciate the education. This was a very old piece of equipment, a sand fighter for you West Texas cotton guys, and was probably built in the Lamesa area. I was pretty sure it was old oilfield pipe, and knowing how cavalier people used to be about radioactivity, I guessed some source was passed through it. I'm fine with being corrected.

A related story, I worked at a USDA research station, and we used water meters with a neutron source to check soil moisture. Used a core sampler to make a two inch by six foot hole, then drive a piece of tubing into the ground, leaving about four inches above ground. The meter sat on that, which released a catch, allowing the nuetron source to drop through the open bottom on a cable. The cable had stops at regular intervals, which allowed us to get readings at each foot of depth or whatever.

It was not a strong source, but we always carried it in the back of the pickup, and limited our exposure. We also wore film badges to check our doses, though I heard of one technician in Arkansas who stored his badge with the meter in the same case. Yeah, he got a call from the health guys.

One summer, I sent my college intern out to check a field. As he came back, I stopped him to relay further instructions. He had the neutron probe on the front seat right next to him, open end pointed at his hips. I said, "Intern name, don't you want to have kids?"

"It's okay, it's turned off."


He did have kids later, one of which was a very smart and pretty girl in Bender's grade all through school. So, no harm, I guess.

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I am in the Env Cleanup business and we do alot of NORM work which requires our guys to have the dosimeter badges. The other bad thing to do with them is leave them on the dash of the truck in the sun. They pick up enough rad just from the sun's rays to register - HUGE PITA when a badge comes up hot....

If you want a little more worthless trivia - some of the most valuable steel is called "low background" steel. It is steel produced before the first atomic bomb testings in WW2. All of the steel produced since WW2 has low levels of rad contamination. The "low background" steel is needed in a variety of applications, but mainly for use in devices that require the highest sensitivity for detecting radionuclides. The sad part is that the biggest source of it is from sunken warships. This is why so many shipwrecks get pilfered by outlaw/pirate salvage crews..........

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If you want a little more worthless trivia - some of the most valuable steel is called "low background" steel. It is steel produced before the first atomic bomb testings in WW2. All of the steel produced since WW2 has low levels of rad contamination

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Actually, I was aware of that. My wife is in the Weapons of Mass Destruction business.

Apparently, all steel made after July 16, 1945, has radiation contamination from above ground nuclear testing. Some of their testing equipment is made with steel salvaged from WWII era tanks for just the reasons you mention.

I'll second all the advice to check any second hand oilfield equipment for NORM. A good read for when a company does the wrong thing is a Forest Oil v. El Rucio. There aren't a lot of cases that reference glowing rhinos.

See the link for a synopsis. https://www.energyandthelaw.com/2017/05/09/oil-field-contamination-award-upheld/

The magnetism is caused by inspection tools over the years, not NORM. At least, that's what causes in in the pipeline world. Very strong magnets on MFL and EMAT type tools that leave strong residual magnetism. You can hand a small sledge hammer on some of our pipe a year after the tool run.

Magnetism is hard on welders because it pulls the weld puddle over to one side....molten metal is still ferrous.

Someone mentioned wrapping welder leads, that's exactly how we do it in the pipeline integrity world on pipe replacements. Use a Gauss meter to test the strength of the magnetism....more wraps around the circumference for stronger magnetism.

Always fun watching a welder hang a sledgehammer on the side of the pipeline before a tie-in. We used to rent a welding machine and wrap the leads to de-mag it. Apparently it's hard on the machine.

The welders told me that the pipe pushes the bead out of the bevel if its magnetized.

dahouse said:

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Always fun watching a welder hang a sledgehammer on the side of the pipeline before a tie-in. We used to rent a welding machine and wrap the leads to de-mag it. Apparently it's hard on the machine.

The welders told me that the pipe pushes the bead out of the bevel if its magnetized.

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It IS hard one the machine. You wrap the leads around the pipe, then clip the ground and electrodes ends together. The machine is churning out current furiously the whole time!

We have to do the same on big pipe and my contractors rent machines too. Small pipe and non-API welds can be accomplished just wrapping the leads from the machine doing the welding. You just have to play with it some.

I am always amazed of the knowledge that is available on the OB and others. Makes me realize how "dumb" I am sometimes. It is a credit to our University that has help produce such true knowledgeable people in all fields.
We truly have some smart and good folks on here.
I wish I just knew what some of you guys have forgotten!