Deats said:

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IDAGG said:

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Deats said:

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IDAGG said:

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I own a .308 and am a big fan of that cartridge. Having said that, the 6.5 should be plenty for shooting big game. Both my kids took their first mule deer with a 6mm Remington with 100 gn bullets Both deer dropped without taking a step. So a 6.5 would be plenty for deer. Elk sized game with a 6.5? IDK, I'll leave it to the experts, but I will say plenty of elk have been dropped with .270 Win.

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.308 not even on the list

https://www.fieldandstream.com/12-best-rifle-cartridges-for-elk-hunting#page-14

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That's fine. It's not new, trendy, or obscure like about half of the cartridges they name. What? Gun magazines pimping new cartridges to sell more rifles? Say it ain't so!
.338 RCM?
.30 Nosler?
.28 Nosler?
And of course the 6.5mm Creedmore


The .308 has killed lots of elk. I am glad to see they like the 6.5 for elk. That answers my question. I am sure it is a very fine round.

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Sorry, I should have posted a shocked face. That article is a gun writers wet dream covered in new, low production cartridges.

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no kidding, what a bunch of garbage. Starts with the CM and goes straight to 7mms and bigger, long action and magnums, it's like a game of "which of these things doesn't belong?"

Where's the 26 nosler, which will push the 6.5cm down and kick sand in it's face? No 6.5 saum?

I'd venture to say far more elk have gone down with 30-30 and 243 than will ever be shot by the 6.5CM, but they aren't on that list nor should they be.

The comparison of the creedmore to yeti is a good one. Great marketing combined with a few technological developments. The CM wouldn't have been an option back when Partition was the only appropriate choice for elk, but with a bonded/controlled expansion bullet you can get enough damage with lower energy to do the job.

AgEng06 said:

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Semi-related (also semi-hijack)... Outside of the magnum calibers, is there a better hunting caliber for NA game than .270 Win? I have been looking at rifles, and can't find any reason to not go with a .270.

I guess the 6.5 should be more accurate and less affected by wind and other factors at long distances, but at 500 yds and in, does that really matter?

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If you own 1 rifle it should be a .30-06 or .270(necked down .30-06).

I'll say that until the 6.5 CM shows it sticks for 20 years

Yeah, I tend to agree. I just shot my bull elk with a .270 and he dropped with a shot through the shoulder.

I guess I should point out that I already own a 7mm-08, which is not quite as hot as the .270, but pretty comparable.

AgEng06 said:

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Semi-related (also semi-hijack)... Outside of the magnum calibers, is there a better hunting caliber for NA game than .270 Win? I have been looking at rifles, and can't find any reason to not go with a .270.

I guess the 6.5 should be more accurate and less affected by wind and other factors at long distances, but at 500 yds and in, does that really matter?

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280. It's 10 better

depends what you mean by "better" but depending who you talk to 270 is marginal for elk. 130gr federal power-shock drops under 1200 ft-lbs of energy between 400 and 500 yds, but Jack O'Connor killed piles of elephants with one (Karamojo Bell market hunted elephants with a 6.5 swede though!). If your rifle shoots 140 or 150 grain bullets well that would make it a better choice but why not run a 280 that was designed for 140s, or a 30-06 that you can run anything from 150-210 grain out of. If moose or grizzly is on your bucket list I'd go a little bigger than 270.
"The 30-06 is never a mistake" Col. Townsend Whelen

AgEng06 said:

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Yeah, I tend to agree. I just shot my bull elk with a .270 and he dropped with a shot through the shoulder.

I guess I should point out that I already own a 7mm-08, which is not quite as hot as the .270, but pretty comparable.

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I love my .270. Longest shot on a great deer was just short of 300 yards. And it shoots cloverleaf when I do my part.

Quote:

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Per the testing:

• doubles hit probability at 1000 meters.
• 33% increase in effective range.
• 30% increase in energy on target.
• 40% increase in wind effect.
• Decreased recoil.

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meh, who would want any of those advantages ...

Good points. I was shooting 150gr Win Super-X Power-Points when I killed my elk with the .270, but I definitely see the advantage in the heavier bullets available in the .30-06.

270 shooting 150s is a force to be reckoned with! BC on those must be pretty good!

BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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Mas89 said:

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The 308 with 180 grain bullets has much more stopping power and will be a more lethal hunting caliber than a 6.5 CM. I like to see kids graduate to a 308 when they are big enough. Especially at 250 yards or closer.

For punching paper or ringing steel, the 6.5 CM is really awesome.

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The first part of the bolded statement is potentially true within 200 yards (depending on the specific round being used) but outside of 200 yards, the stopping power game quickly falls in favor of 6.5 CM. 6.5 just retains energy so much better than a .308. Even a faster, better BC 308 only keeps up out to 400 yards.


As for the lethality, stopping power and lethality are very different and the second part of your statement in bold is just not verifiable. and one could argue quite easily that a round which is effected far less by environmental factors will be more lethal because it lets the shooter be more accurate. and shot placement will be by far the biggest factor in lethality.

edit:
i'm not meaning this as a knock on 308, its a great round, lets just not pretend that it is something that it is not

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Don't forget that the 6.5mm bullets will typically have a higher sectional density as well.

I've been shooting a 260 for about a decade now and love it. I hand load and like the fact that I can shoot from 85 to 160gr in a single gun.

Deats said:

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AgEng06 said:

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Semi-related (also semi-hijack)... Outside of the magnum calibers, is there a better hunting caliber for NA game than .270 Win? I have been looking at rifles, and can't find any reason to not go with a .270.

I guess the 6.5 should be more accurate and less affected by wind and other factors at long distances, but at 500 yds and in, does that really matter?

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If you own 1 rifle it should be a .30-06 or .270(necked down .30-06).

I'll say that until the 6.5 CM shows it sticks for 20 years

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I have a 30-06. I go to the range and shoot it 5 or 6 times, the bullets never hit in the same place, and then I go find an orthopedic surgeon to fix my shoulder.


When I can lift my arm again I go back to the range with my creedmoor and enjoy shooting as much as I want to, and the bullets always hit exactly where I want them to hit.

6.5 CDMR is invisible to radar and x-ray.

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SunrayAG said

I have a 30-06. I go to the range and shoot it 5 or 6 times, the bullets never hit in the same place, and then I go find an orthopedic surgeon to fix my shoulder.

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If you're having difficulty with shooting I suggest this this video on proper placement - G's HD Gun Show: how to properly place a stock / shoot a rifle.

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FIDO 96 said:

6.5 CDMR is invisible to radar and x-ray.

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I'll try to explain it to you in the simpiliest terms... such as if you were a t-sip. The lead in the bullet blocks x-rays. Also, here is a video explaining how stealth technology works.

How do you explain the ability of the 6.5CDMR to stay flat out to. 2000yds and still leave an 8" exit woulnd while causing an above average sized male to flip over violently in a pink mist? I've read that's what Seal Team 6 guys are using in Syria to take out ISIS.

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How do you explain the ability of the 6.5CDMR to stay flat out to. 2000yds and still leave an 8" exit woulnd while causing an above average sized male to flip over violently in a pink mist? I've read that's what Seal Team 6 guys are using in Syria to take out ISIS

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It's simple, part of the USSOCOM testing requires an new propellant produced in the Lake City plant to be used in it's sniper system. This propellant uses Semtex, iron powder and naval jelly along with teflon coated copper/lead bullets over an iron core to produce a magnetic rail gun effect.

This is a good video of a simulated impact, but the 6.5 CDMR is travelling twice as fast!!! over 9600 fps!!! Zero'd at 2400 meters it doesn't rise over 0.5 cm and only drops 3 cm at 3300 meters.

Jeez. I have owned several 6.5 caliber rifles. I still have an old Mauser 6.5-257 my dad and his gunsmith buddy built in the 60s.

My suggestion is that caliber popularity waxes and wanes. Right now, the Creedmor is super popular and with good reason.

At one point, everyone had to have a 308 or 06 because they'd used those calibers in the military. When I was young it was the 06 offshoots like 25/06 and 270. Slower burning powders changed a lot of stuff for us. H4831 was an amazing thing.

When I was a kid, people shot just about the same bullets out of a 30-30 or 308 as a 300 Win Mag and bullets were very hard so they wouldn't explode at high velocities. I saw a couple of South Texas bucks shot with 308 or 30-06 that ran off of senderos and far into thick brush that we found only by watching for buzzards because they only had a 30 caliber hole punched through them. There just wasn't much energy exchange or organ destruction. I disliked 308 and 06 for that and until advanced and different bullets were developed for the calibers to properly expand in their velocity range, I preferred 264, 270, and 25/06.

My point is that in a few years technological advances in powders and bullets will probably bring extreme popularity to other calibers like the Creedmor has now.

The Creedmor is not going anywhere and neither is the 308. I don't own or really like 308, but I do think it serves a lot of purposes very, very well.

I was telling the OP that for his application, the 308 was fine and that the surge in popularity of the Creedmor for long range shooting, which it's great for, isn't enough of a reason to trade away a 308 or add another caliber if he doesn't really want to do that. For all the benefits of the Creedmor, for what he asked about, the 308 is fine.

The 6.5CDMR is more expensive than the .308 so it has to be better

Very well stated and I totally agree. You have a wealth of knowledge and presented it in a clear concise manner.

6.5 is a flavor of the month cooked up to sell rifles and ammo. Just like the short magnums were, just like the "ultra-magnums" were.....

In a couple of years it will be another latest/greatest caliber that you absolutely must own or you can not kill anything ever......

SAWgunner said:

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6.5 is a flavor of the month cooked up to sell rifles and ammo. Just like the short magnums were, just like the "ultra-magnums" were.....

In a couple of years it will be another latest/greatest caliber that you absolutely must own or you can not kill anything ever......

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it feels like you read absolutely none of the posts. good job.

Furlock Bones said:

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SAWgunner said:

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6.5 is a flavor of the month cooked up to sell rifles and ammo. Just like the short magnums were, just like the "ultra-magnums" were.....

In a couple of years it will be another latest/greatest caliber that you absolutely must own or you can not kill anything ever......

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it feels like you read absolutely none of the posts. good job.

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Oh, I read them. Just echoing them. I had posed something similar in another thread a week or so ago. Its funny to see the younger generation treat the 6.5 as if its the Second Coming. A few years from now, you'll be able to buy them pretty cheap.

https://texags.com/forums/34/topics/2988130/replies/52841545

SAWgunner said:

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6.5 is a flavor of the month cooked up to sell rifles and ammo. Just like the short magnums were, just like the "ultra-magnums" were.....

the Swede has been around since 1891

In a couple of years it will be another latest/greatest caliber that you absolutely must own or you can not kill anything ever......

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The 6.5 bullet is excellent and ballistically better than the 308 in most chamberings. Not sure where the hesitation to recognize that is coming from.

308 can kill just about anything in North America, but doesn't have the capability of a 6.5 CM or 6.5 wby mag etc.

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IMHO, there is considerable difference in felt recoil between the 6.5 CM and .308

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Actual recoil but don't see a difference in felt between calibers only.....

ToHntortoFsh said:

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SAWgunner said:

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6.5 is a flavor of the month cooked up to sell rifles and ammo. Just like the short magnums were, just like the "ultra-magnums" were.....

the Swede has been around since 1891

In a couple of years it will be another latest/greatest caliber that you absolutely must own or you can not kill anything ever......

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The 6.5 bullet is excellent and ballistically better than the 308 in most chamberings. Not sure where the hesitation to recognize that is coming from.

308 can kill just about anything in North America, but doesn't have the capability of a 6.5 CM or 6.5 wby mag etc.

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Pride.

Or physics
140 gr 6.5 Elite Hunter g1 bc 0.606 g7 bc 0.310
210 gr VLD Hunting g1 bc 0.625 g7 bc 0.320
These are the heaviest/highest bc bullets Berger offers in each caliber

Nothing magical about 6.5mm or 7.62mm or any other diameter you might choose to make a bullet in, heavy for caliber bullets always have great ballistics. The fact that the 6.5 creedmore cartridge is primarily loaded with heavy for caliber bullets, and the 308 Winchester cartridge is primarily loaded with light to medium weight for caliber bullets doesnt change that

NRD09 said:

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Or physics
140 gr 6.5 Elite Hunter g1 bc 0.606 g7 bc 0.310
210 gr VLD Hunting g1 bc 0.625 g7 bc 0.320
These are the heaviest/highest bc bullets Berger offers in each caliber

Nothing magical about 6.5mm or 7.62mm or any other diameter you might choose to make a bullet in, heavy for caliber bullets always have great ballistics. The fact that the 6.5 creedmore cartridge is primarily loaded with heavy for caliber bullets, and the 308 Winchester cartridge is primarily loaded with light to medium weight for caliber bullets doesnt change that

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As far as bullet mass...

if you want to compare apples to apples toss a 30-06 shooting a 210 vld at 2534fps (HSM factory load) on that chart. Heavy for caliber and not a hot rod cartridge, just like the 6.5 creedmore shooting 140s

NRD09 said:

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All the creedmoor hype led me to buy a 260

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and me to buy a 25-06

a more specific comparison.
Berger .308 Win 210 gr VLD-H; g1 bc 0.625 g7 bc 0.320
Hornady 6.5 CM 143gr ELD-X; g1 bc 0.625 g7 bc 0.315

which basically shows what anyone could guess, two bullets with nearly identical ballistic coefficients will have very similar trajectories and energy will then be dependent on mass. the only difference then here is how much powder is needed to push that 210 gr bullet at those speeds vs the lighter bullet. great example to show there is no magic bullet/caliber, it all comes down to trade offs and what your desired application is.


edit:
went and starter looking into the powder charge data and just quick look, using RL-17
with max charge of 47.5 gr under the 210 gr VLD-H you get roughly 2500 fps
with 43 gr under the 143 gr ELD-X you get roughly 2850 fps
here are your energy curves for that. this would be roughly max load for each:

here the difference becomes you can push the lighter bullet a bit faster so you will have longer supersonic range, pushing your effective range a little longer without putting that 210 gr into magnum range. (looks like its about 100 yards difference)

I understand this as you do.

Nice comparison and charts. Though I think you are using 30-06 data as I don't believe you can get 47 gr in a .308

But lets use your data and apply it to a practical hunting use. The Berger VLD hunting bullets have a minimum terminal speed of 1800 fps. That means your 210/30-06 range is limited to 550 yds, 185 gr/.308 is 500 yds and 140/6.5 CM is over 750 yds. That's 200 yds farther, with 50% less recoil of 17.5 vs 11.9. Well below max of 15 lbs.

Thanks gentleman for the conversation and enlightenment. I'm leaving for my lease tomorrow with my family to put our highly effective, light and accurate shooting Grendels, Swede, and Creedmoor to use. I'm leaving the punishing 7 & 300 Mags home.

Good luck and be careful if you venture into the woods this weekend.

Gig'em