Any thoughts on German wire haired pointer vs Wire haired Pointing Griffon?

Hunting ability?

Family friendliness?

Demeanor otherwise?

Intelligence?

Shedding?

Health problems?

might have just answered my own question but any personal experience is appreciated

"The griffon is an adaptable bird dog, designed to work efficiently with the on-foot hunter. They are not known to range as far or as fast as many other popular pointing breeds. Although historically the griffons did not have as intense water drive as the German wirehairs, excellent breeding programs in recent years have improved their water performance significantly. The griffon's nose and pointing ability are comparable to that of a German wirehair, but their temperament is a bit softer and tends more towards dependency. They are extremely sociable and people-oriented.

Physically, the griffon body shape is less defined than the German wirehair the chest is not as deep or the waist arch as high. Griffons have bigger heads and more "furniture," the shaggy long hair on their ears, muzzle and most notably the eyebrows. All griffons have thick full coats which can take up to three years to completely come in. The German wirehairs' coats vary in length and fluff, but are tighter and lie flatter than a griff's.

Griffons' coloring varies from brown and brown/white/gray to tri-color and orange-and-white. Black or curly coats are not standard for the breed. German wirehairs are most commonly brown roan, some with large brown patches and/or white chest patches. Black roan and all brown are acceptable by German wirehair breed standards, but all black coats are not.

As with all breeds, a description of temperament and hunting characteristics can only be a generalization. Individual dogs like individual hunters can fit the mold or break it. Generalizations do have merit, however, and it's safe to say that both of these breeds make wonderful hunting partners in the pursuit of upland game and waterfowl."

"excellent breeding programs"

Hunting wise, there is your answer if you go with a griffon. The breedings have certainly improved over the last 15-20 years or so, but it still seems to me that the ones I see are either really nice or they are absolute garbage. There isn't much in between. So do your homework and don't just jump on the first list with a breeder because they have picks available.

I've got a griff. Far and away the best bird dog I've ever seen. I've owned GSPs and Britts in the past. Breeder is definitely important with griffs. There are quite a few that only focus on show dogs. If you are interested in a griff, reach out to Larry Woodward of Aux Lake Kennels. He knows everyone in the griff world.

I have a griffon. The most chill dog I've ever seen at 1 year old. My previous dog was a GSP. Psycho for about 3 years then mellowed.

I think my griffon sheds less than my GSP ever did. He's great dog. My WPG at 12 weeks and 1 year

vz92 said:

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Any thoughts on German wire haired pointer vs Wire haired Pointing Griffon?

Hunting ability?

Family friendliness?

Demeanor otherwise?

Intelligence?

Shedding?

Health problems?

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Based on my experience, I'd start with a Breeder that breeds thru the German clubs (Verein) here in the US.

Comes down to the Breeder for most of your questions. I've had two DD's (GWP) and I've looked at Griffon. Ended up with a Pudelpointer for my new dog - primarily b/c my trainer had a good started dog (lost both my DD's last year and don't have time for training these days)

Hunting - if you stick with the German system, you shouldn't have a problem with either breed. If outside of a verein, just do your homework

Friendliness / demeanor - both are crazy loyal family dogs

Intelligence - highly intelligent but any working dog needs work - keep them exercised and engaged

Shedding - I had a large and a medium framed DD; both shed but not as bad as a lab etc. but the larger of the two shed more - his coat was a little different than the smaller, who was more like a GSP coat

Health - shouldn't be an issue but, again, Breeder/kennel has a lot to do with it. My big DD died of cancer, but I think that was due to externalities I think. I've never seen any genetic issues that would worry me between the breeds. The Germans do a good job of isolating health issues from the bloodline. (My larger DD was not allowed to breed due to an overbite)

HTH - both are great breeds

Yeah stay away from dogs with ribbons and AKC would be my suggestion

Those German versatile dogs are hell on varmints. To the point where it's a nuisance. They have strong prey drive.

Your neighbors are gonna want to hide their cats.

And in a hunting scenario be sure you understand what to do in a porcupine/skunk/whatever else is out there scenario. Those dogs just seem to find more varmints.

What I think of as a wire hair is a smaller, more athletic dog. More likely than a Griff to hold a point at a distance. And a Griffon is a bigger and slower dog.

I ran a combo - large DD worked close small DD ranged. My trainer was a pointing lab guy, who had experience with versatiles and GSPs. My big DD (90lbs) would work up and down the line, east-west inside of 25yds or so. The smaller (55lbs) worked a traditional circle pattern - he'd get out 300yds sometimes.

Worked great for me. Miss those dang dogs.

As to varmints / cats - yes they do have the drive to hunt then but I never had any issues in the field. My smaller DD had the big drive for them the big DD not so much. But your point is correct. In Germany they use DD's on feral cats.

I do think dogs several lines removed from Germany have had some of that drive bred out. German dogs and some of the early American litters were more harsh / sharp as well from what I'm told.

I was always amazed at how they seemed to know what we were hunting. If we were tracking deer, they never got off scent to go after anything but the deer we were tracking. Same for quail/upland and dove. Didn't get to hunt ducks much but they were both great in water. Handy for upland birds or dove that go down in a tank etc

Anyone who is a bird and deer hunter should seriously consider a versatile - your dog gets to work everytime you hunt, and a natural blood tracker is damn handy. With my DD's I didn't even have to train for blood tracking - just came with the package.

We had a Griffin...my wife was alergic to feathers so we had it get rid of it.

Have a 6 year old Griff, haven't had a GSP but here are my thoughts (also agree with most of the comments shared thus far). Griffs seem to be friendlier and more laid back (much more couch potato) than GSPs. Ours is also a fierce hunter (although a NAVHDA NA failure) and I'd suggest looking for breeders that also hunt or even require a NAVHDA NA test if you want to do that. They are more sensitive than GSPs and some of the typical training may not work as well (ie force fetch). I believe they hunt a little closer to you. We recently moved from 2400 sq ft house on 2.5 acres to a 400 sq ft apartment in a city (temporarily) and she has taken it all in stride. They want to be with their people, even more than hanging with other dogs. We LOVE ours and will definitely get another one. There is a good Facebook group (Hunting Wirehaired Pointing Griffons) that folks post on a lot and you can get to know their hunting styles and personalities.

Thanks for the responses.

I think I struggle with figuring out breeders. Those words of advice are hard to follow when one gets sent puppy pictures and videos, which is what has happened to me the past few days.

If you want a DD (GWP) I can put you in touch with the Aggie that sold me my first pup. Not sure if he's still breeding dogs or not but he will know every breeder worth a look.

As for your PP, I'm sure those that have posted above will serve you well.

Good luck!