CWD is now reported to infect 16 % of male deer, moose and elk in Colorado.

Colorado P&W concerned and taking new/additional measures.

Advisory in the article regarding human consumption.

This stuff is getting serious, guys.

Colo CWD

How did this start?

But there are no high fences in CO? Right?

I posted on high fences not pens. I recognize their risks and agree pens do not help. You could argue high fences would actually protect your herd.

SteveBott said:

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I posted on high fences not pens. I recognize their risks and agree pens do not help. You could argue high fences would actually protect your herd.

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Please define "high fence" and "pen". Not trying to be rude, but what is the cutoff? I think it's important to distinguish between the two for the CWD conversation. All the high fence proponents would probably be best served by making clear distinctions between high fence and "pens" and join the fight against "pens". If not they may all get lumped in together.

For most people I think the perception is that there is not much difference between high fence and pens.

The CWD work references "captive" and "wild" populations. I think most would lump high fence raches into "captive". I agree not all high fence places are bad, but I think everyone would be best served to head off the high fence perception issue as CWD spreads to TX.

IMO... The difference between a high fence and a pen is largely in the number of head per acre. If you are close to the natural number per acre and want to high fence to improve genetics/better manage your herd go for it. I think the problem is when people start stocking deer like livestock. I think I read somewhere that Axis can be stocked at ~7x that of cattle, definitely more than would be naturally occurring.

Going forward....and there really does NOT seem to be a reversal in this growing spreading trend.....

Will baiting/feeding practices become banned?

Will it become MANDATORY that ALL deer be inspected/sampled/tested?

Will fence issues become regulated by the state?

What about human consumption and possible "species jump" risks of CWD (Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease)?

CWD (note the caution about consumption in this link )

How will it effect the $economics$ involved in hunting ?

Questions that are being/will be discussed much more here on forward I suspect.

Technically he is correct. Deer are a property of the state. Practically? Another matter

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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AnScAggie said:

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I definitely would be against banning high fences. I have one with a 100% native herd that was captured in it 16 years ago. I actually view it as a safety measure against CWD, now if I could just get my neighbors to not to bring in any animals I'd feel more comfortable.

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This has to be a troll. Not your deer.

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Definitely not a troll. All I'm saying is I feel some protection from a random deer showing up with CWD on my property. However, a bird, pig, coyote, etc bringing it in or deer contact on the fence line is entirely another matter.

TwoMarksHand said:

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WaltonLoads08 said:

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How did this start?

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No one really know, but high fenced and farm operations definetly boosted it.

I'm sure this will piss half of the OB off, but we should ban high fences operations.

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So a low-fence place would be okay? What do you do with the large herd of deer due to the artificial carrying capacity from the high fence ranch? Would just releasing them into the native population be a smart idea? What about farms/ranches that have never imported any outside animals?

Travel up to Montana and see the concentration of whitetail along the cottonwoods and alfalfa fields. Is that any less than a high fence? Probably not on most occasions.

What about dry areas with limited water resources? I think you could make an argument that watering holes or troughs can pose just as big of a threat.

I have a hard time processing the "ban high fences and it will solve the problem" crowd. I'm not really for or against high fences. I hunt a low fence place but respect property owners rights to fence their property as he/she sees fit. Bottom line, this is scary problem that isn't going away any time soon. I like to think we have the knowledge and resources to fight this disease/prion and win but am not sure. Hopefully it doesn't alter hunting as we know it or lead to a divided and fragmented group of hunters arguing over what is the best way to preserve something we all love.

The folks that care are those that manage their property as they see fit. They know. I really believe Texas wil prosper with private ownership

In most cases ( certainly not all) high fenced hunting leases and Day hunting places have imported genetics from deer breeders and that's where things dicey...bc those traits bolth good and bad are mixed in to "native" deer with unknown consequences.

people would normally be ok with this as long as it doesn't effect the native wild deer, it would fall under their money and and land to do with what they want right?

The problem is this...
Wheb you look at proper fencing and fences being maintained and kept up.

most cattle ranchers don't drive their fence lines every day, even those are the ones who live near or on their farm. If cattle get across the fence bc of it being down, your nby is out of grass but not much else.... and most would tell you that it seems like cattle have a nose for a fence being down and enjoy the green grass across it...

Second is what is amfence that is high enough... most places range 8-10 ft.... bucks have been documented jumping those... especally when it is motovated by the rut...

Burdizzo said:

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I don't know that the "ban high fences" crowd are saying it is a cure for the disease. I think the point is that banning high fences would let the disease run its natural course through the population faster than segregating certain populations who will probably get it anyway and just drag put the inevitable. Let nature work out the solution, and in the end the deer population survives.

It is like when some of us older folks got chicken pox as kids. If one kid got it, our parents would make us all play together so we all got it at once. That way this thing wouldn't linger in the community for a long time.

I am not a wildlife biologist. This is just what I took away from the argument.

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This isn't like chicken pox, though, where you get sick and then recover most of the time and then you're immune for life. Also, maybe 1 kid in 1000 dies. Not a big deal.

There is no cure for CWD, no vaccine, no way to avoid death. That's a pretty big deal.

There are probably deer with resistant genomes but it would take decades at best for CWD to "run its course".

If I had the authority and all the money in the world I'd honestly be working on finding resistant deer, elk, and other cervids and breeding them post haste while eradicating as many wild deer as possible.

Once non-resistant wild deer are gone, resistant deer are reintroduced to the wild.

Sorta like what has been done with sheep and goats and scrapie.

Tough to tell if the natural process can adapt to the human intervention that likely started this and keeps spreading it. i.e. Capturing deer.

I do think right now the best chance for the deer survival is going to be resistant deer genetics, but who knows how ugly it gets before they "survive" and make a comeback.

The problem is if you read that time line this thing is spreading at a much more rapid pace than it would naturally due to humans.

Also keep in mind once the prions are introduced into an area, they can hang around a really long time.

Back to watching.

Good points. The deer herd in most of the US (for sure in TX) is at the highest it's ever been. At some point you wonder if nature just tries to correct itself (through more frequent interaction) even if the carrying capacity allows for the higher number of animals.

I understand why we are trying to actively manage the situation. People have invested millions of dollars into the hunting and wildlife industry. The hard part is that it is also a political problem. No one wants their ox gored to save the industry. I get that. Again, not a biologist, but I am getting the sinking feeling that we are making decisions in the dark because nothing we do seems to have a significant effect.

Good example, antler restrictions are good for population dynamics purposes. However, from a CWD standpoint it may come back to bite us....older herd is more likely to more readily spread the prions.

Additional article and info....

More on CWD

Lawyers would be lining up if they banned high fences in Texas, ain't happening

Have fun talking about it

^ I'd bet they're the #1 target client.

This is a pretty good read.


https://www.fieldandstream.com/is-high-fence-hunting-good-thing-for-sportsmen

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Of 17 shooter-bull operations in Idaho, only six are bigger than 450 acres. We have one as small as 10 acres, one at 25 acres, one at 60 acres. The hunting public here doesn't want this place to become like Texas."

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"There is an evil seed buried here," Posewitz said in a discussion of high-fence hunting. "By selling these facsimiles of real wild animals, these people degrade the whole reality of hunting. They strip away the concept that man the hunter is engaged in an important activity. Suddenly, what was wild is domestic, what was difficult to obtain is easy, what was once valuable is trivial. It is a tremendous threat on many levels."

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There is not enough public land and natural resources, especially in Texas, to enable 100% fair chase hunting... this mentality, shared commonly with those up north, is wrong in my opinion. Our strength is in numbers and the more people involved in hunting, the better. Even if it means easy access high-fence hunting, you're getting someone into the industry and another voice against PETA.

I do agree that at the core, the values of a hunt are diminished on these places but not evil...

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According to Shepard, a recent poll taken by SCI revealed an interesting contradiction. "Basically, 83 percent of the people polled thought that you should have the right to hunt behind high fences. But that same group said that they would not participate in the activity themselves."

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This is spot on:

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"We have to tolerate each other, because as we fragment into smaller and smaller groups, we make an easier target for the antihunters out there."

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I couldn't agree more with the above statement.

It's a good article and I appreciate you sharing.

http://www.trcp.org/2018/05/21/experts-respond-top-seven-gripes-see-chronic-wasting-disease-skeptics/

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THOMAS: One study found that prions are still viable after being incinerated at 1,562 degrees Fahrenheit. "Well done" won't even scare 'em

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CWD incubates in whitetails for an estimated minimum of 16 months and an average of two years before the deer become "clinical." This is when they begin to show symptoms and would be more susceptible to predators in their weakened state. Higher predator numbers would not control CWD, because adult deer are infectious to other deer throughout the entire incubation period.

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Even without the captive cervid industry, CWD will likely continue to grow and spreadit is now well-established among some wild cervid populations. Reducing or eliminating human-assisted movement of CWD, on the other hand, has been identified as a key preventative measure.

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The alarming part is what will happen to these deer populations over the next 10 years, 20 years, and beyond. There is no vaccine or cure for CWD, it is 100 percent fatal, and we still don't know how to eradicate it from areas where it has been established. These are the factsnot exaggerationand this is a recipe for a slow-moving disaster

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Have fun eating that venison.