Thanks for the support!

Interested to see how this plays out.

I hadn't heard that wind farms could make it without being subsidized. That would be news to me.

How could a country so sensitive about terrorist attacks on our electrical grid even think about letting a foreign national company be involved in it! Where in the hell have we gone as a country. Please sign the petition! MAGA or TAGA( Take America Back Again)

devilriverag72 said:

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How could a country so sensitive about terrorist attacks on our electrical grid even think about letting a foreign national company be involved in it! Where in the hell have we gone as a country. Please sign the petition! MAGA or TAGA( Take America Back Again)

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This is a troll, right?

The majority of the companies (which are the ones that are actually good at wind energy) are countries we don't have any issues with. We're too busy making dinosaurs into gasoline to care, and they probably buy a lot of petrol from us.

Small correction to the wind subsidy conversation. The subsidies did expire in 2014, which I knew. What I didn't know is that they were renewed in late 2015, and applied retroactively. They were supposed to start going down in 2016, and be phased out (again) in 2020.

The subsidy is $0.023/kWh.

For solar there is an investment tax credit of 30-percent 2019, "after which it will fall to 26 percent in 2020, 22 percent in 2021 and 10 percent in 2022." I think that's just on major projects, not on home solar, but hey, it might be, Essentially gives you 30% of of solar, if applicable.

Sorry, missed that one.

https://www.greenbiz.com/article/congress-extends-renewable-investment-tax-credit-what-now

They are expensive, intrusive but also not efficient since most of the wind energy is not during peak times to help with peak load.

My nephew works for a company in Iowa that maintains these windmills. He admits these companies would not survive without subsidies, and that once the windmills cost too much to repair, the companies walk off and leave the windmills there for landowners to deal with. As mentioned earlier, that's part of why the folks in rural Iowa are starting to really fight windfarm development.

Lots of misinformation in this thread. I have to get up early but when I have time I will try to provide constructive feedback to the numerous posts that display ignorance. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, I meant that as the definition of ignorance, "lack of knowledge or information."

It is one thing to simply say you dislike the way wind turbines look and take away from the natural view of the land. I actually ageee with that whole heartedly. But most of what has been mentioned as facts in this thread is a complete misinterpretation of the truth and it actually makes me sad that so many well educated folks can be so out of touch with reality when it comes to this form of energy production.

Wind does use subsidies as of now, but the industry will go nowhere once they are finished.

No wind farms abandon the machines and leave the land owners to deal with them. That is a flat out lie.

Oil also utilizes subsidies to produce, they just fall under different names such as rapid depreciation. There are far more tax savings at the disposal of oil companies than wind companies. There is no debate about that.

Do wind turbines kill birds? Yes. Do wind turbines even come close to killing as many birds as most estimate? Not even close.

There is a huge lack of understanding of this new technology, which is understandable. What should not be tolerated is the absolute ignorance and flat out lies about something just because you heard it from a friend or read an article funded by political activists.

Fairview said:

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I was confused too so I went to the site and this is the summary of why they are saying its bad. It sounds like a lot of NIMBY stuff which I get but its also on private property which makes it challenging. Feels like this is going to be tough battle for them win and prevent this from happening.

From the website:

Wind farm development in Val Verde County:

• Compounds border security challenges
• Creates airspace hazards for Air Force pilots in training
• Degrades the frontier legacy character of the region
• Sacrifices future generation opportunities for limited short-term benefits to external interests
• Does not respect others' private property rights
• Devalues real estate
• Causes light pollution
• Produces energy to be utilized elsewhere
• Deteriorates shared natural scenic views
• Negatively impacts bats, birds, butterflies, and other wildlife
• Permanently scars viewscapes and night skies
• Is bad for hunting, fishing and other nature-dependent tourism
• Diminishes the natural beauty of public treasures;
  
  • Lake Amistad National Recreation Area
  • Devils River State Natural Areas
  • Seminole Canyon State Park and Historical Site
• Only benefits the foreign operator partnered with foreign investors to take advantage of U.S. subsidies

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That reads exactly lik a list of reasons to be against the border wall.

Quote:

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Ags all I asked for was help on a petition to stop a Chinese Company spoiling one of the most magical places in our State. I'm really sorry I started the thread. There may be nothing we can do but we are going to try.

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I wish you luck, but am not sure your aims square with my philosophy on land rights. If your neighbors want to sell, they must be offering a fair price. Far from driving values down (pig farm) a voracious buyer in an area usually drives prices up.

I don't like the Chinese government, but it's legal for their companies to buy land here. Don't think I'd go along with an effort to change that.

If you fear the environment impact of the project, show up at and public hearings and make the cognizant regulatory agencies aware of your concerns.

Your best option, in my opinion, is to convince your neighbors to come around to your line if thinking so they won't sell/lease their land. A bunch of Ags on the internet aren't much of a cavalry in this case.

I think wind turbines are beautiful...

Quote:

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the companies walk off and leave the windmills there for landowners to deal with.

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There is supposed to be a trust fund established when the windmills are built. It is to be used to dismantle the turbines, dig the concrete below grade, and back fill.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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the companies walk off and leave the windmills there for landowners to deal with.

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There is supposed to be a trust fund established when the windmills are built. It is to be used to dismantle the turbines, dig the concrete below grade, and back fill.

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"Supposed to"? Is that Iowa or Texas state law?

Just telling you want wind companies have said in their presentations. Were I you, I'd check out the Iowa story as opposed to repeating rumors.

In Illinois they have to guarantee x amount of dollars per wind turbine for its eventual removal, it is state law. Now I don't know if that's a trust fund or a surety bond or some other method but the requirement is there and you cannot get your permits from the state without proof of the money being available.

Turbines are somewhat of an eyesore, the biggest issue we hear is the flashing lights at night that the FAA requires, but there are some companies out there going to a system where the lights only come on when a plane is with an x amount of miles of the Wind Farm.

As the previous poster mentioned there is a lot of ignorance about green energy in general.

I've been surprised that the lights flash in unison, an entire miles-square area of windmills at once. But then, I thought about what it would be like if each tower blinked independently.....it would be seizure-inducing.

CanyonAg77 said:

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I've been surprised that the lights flash in unison, an entire miles-square area of windmills at once. But then, I thought about what it would be like if each tower blinked independently.....it would be seizure-inducing.

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Same reason fire alarm strobes have to be in unison to pass inspection.

"Turbines are somewhat of an eyesore, the biggest issue we hear is the flashing lights at night that the FAA requires, but there are some companies out there going to a system where the lights only come on when a plane is with an x amount of miles of the Wind Farm."

That would be great and I hope all wind farm companies install these.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Just telling you want wind companies have said in their presentations. Were I you, I'd check out the Iowa story as opposed to repeating rumors.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.desmoinesregister.com/amp/99789758

Appreciate the advice. It's not rumors. Lots of articles out there discussing the situation in Iowa.

We are.in the early stages of widespread green energy production. Eventually, lawyers will make millions suing each other so that industry standards are put in place.

The reluctantance has been due to the fear of being at fault when the system doesn't work and a small plane gets swatted out of the sky. Why a pilot would be less than 500' AGL at night is beyond me though.

Elephant Tears said:

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Lots of misinformation in this thread. I have to get up early but when I have time I will try to provide constructive feedback to the numerous posts that display ignorance. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, I meant that as the definition of ignorance, "lack of knowledge or information."

It is one thing to simply say you dislike the way wind turbines look and take away from the natural view of the land. I actually ageee with that whole heartedly. But most of what has been mentioned as facts in this thread is a complete misinterpretation of the truth and it actually makes me sad that so many well educated folks can be so out of touch with reality when it comes to this form of energy production.

Wind does use subsidies as of now, but the industry will go nowhere once they are finished.

No wind farms abandon the machines and leave the land owners to deal with them. That is a flat out lie.

Oil also utilizes subsidies to produce, they just fall under different names such as rapid depreciation. There are far more tax savings at the disposal of oil companies than wind companies. There is no debate about that.

Do wind turbines kill birds? Yes. Do wind turbines even come close to killing as many birds as most estimate? Not even close.

There is a huge lack of understanding of this new technology, which is understandable. What should not be tolerated is the absolute ignorance and flat out lies about something just because you heard it from a friend or read an article funded by political activists.

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There's a huge difference between a subsidy and being able to write off tangible drilling costs the first year. The government is not giving the company that is taking all the risk with their drilling capital anything. Also, unlike most tangible items that are depreciated out, almost all of that casing is gone, never to be used again. Windmills and any other business that needs the government to survive suck.

PalomaPachanga said:

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Um. Okay?

There are not as many "lies" on here as you think my friend. My family had to deal with fighting a transmission line company from a windfarm from coming across their land. It was filled with deceit and deception. The utility company did not have to adhere to any environmental surveys, they even had a way to go around the endangered specie act, They would tell you anything and everything, whereas any normal company would have to abide by procedures they did not. So tell me...why do they move the power 100's of miles instead of using it in the area it is produced? Why is it that the own windfarm engineers admit that moving it that far creates at minimum a 40% loss or more. Money, that's why. How about how the landowners are treated during the eminent domain process...basically told "well take it or leave it....it does not really matter because we are going to do what we want anyway." How about property values realistically dropping by 40% or more due to people not wanting to look at the structures. How about the fact that the utility companies are guaranteed a total reimbursement for the construction cost in the first year by every Texas resident who uses power paying for it on their bill each month. That is a fact. I can tell you even more things that you would probably not believe unless you had spent two years of your life fighting these entities to save the land you had devoted your entire life savings to have and work. It was so overwhelming to my family members that it was like a true living nightmare....I could go on and on and I can swear above that nothing I could tell you, even unbelievable things, would be a lie. You only think you really own your land in Texas.......we found that out. If some entity wants to get rich and make tons of money and it is hidden under the auspices of being for the greater good...your hard earned land is toast. Is that not a true travesty to our nation?
There are a lot of qualified people in the energy business that all will say that in less than 50 years all the windfarms will be obsolete because of the cost to maintain and the lack of efficiency. Who will tear down and remove all the windmills when all the companies are gone? Lots of folks found that out in the oil business years back.
And as far as the birds ....well just before he departed office Barack Obama passed a law by executive order waiving the responsibility of windfarms in the north from being able to be prosecuted for killing bald eagles. He gave them an incidental take permit for up to 500 a year. US Fish and Wildlife Service said they would need a lot more. Guess somebody knows something........

You would not be except for three things....1.) Gaining altitude from a departure. 2.) Loosing altitude in preparation for a landing. 3.) Unexpected circumstances like an engine failure or some other emergency procedure while in flight causing loss of altitude or the inability to gain it. That is why towers or obstructions are required to be lit, and give reasonable chance for avoidance.

Gunny 456, THANK YOU !! Maybe Texas will one day be the place we thought it was. We are running out of time but we feel a groundswell of optimism from a lot of entities joining the fight. Your continued help and insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the reply Gunny. I believe everything you posted since I have no reason not to. However, nothing that you said has made my statements untrue. I know eminent domain is a ***** we are dealing with it right now on our family's land. We are not in complete control of what happens on our privately owned land and that is a travesty.

Having said all of that, there are still lots of misconceptions and fear of the "stupid windmills" just because people don't understand. For every negative you hear from landowners, there are 5 times as many positives. Including the familes actually being able to keep ownership of the land instead of selling due to the increased income. I've heard every woe-is-me story in all my years of being in the energy sector and they are never fun to see or hear. It is just, for now anyway, one of the prices we pay for our love of electricty. If it weren't these sob stories, it would be some about what those evil nuclear plants, or steam turbines, or (enter whatever any form of energy production here) do. I'm glad you think you have it all figured out and I hope everything works out for the best for you.

If you live in Texas, most of this is a flat-out lie (I work in the electric transmission industry)

Well, we have come full circle to this being nothing more than those evil "city slickers" looking for a reason to put it to the rural rancher.

I"m not sure what is legitimate or not to be honest, but I do know when things like this get tossed around...hard to put a lot of faith into anything else said by that particular side.

I'm reminded of the story of the community that wanted to build a new sewage plant. The neighbors were outraged, protests and city council meetings were called, neighbor turned on neighbor, on and on.

At one heated meeting, someone decided they needed to ask the opinion of the oldest man in the community, a 90-year-old of unquestioned intellect and integrity. "Mr. Jones, what do YOU think should be done about this problem?"

"Well.......



I guess everyone could stop s****ing."

Oil wells, highways, pipelines, windmills, highlines, sewage plants, mines, quarries, etc. etc. have to be somewhere.

They are always going to be where the resource is, and the votes and lobbying money are not.

Unless people stop pooping, driving,using electricity.....

It's certainly been an eye opening experience discussing the issue with the other "particular side". It's been made clear if you're not on board with wind farm development, any and every where, you're a liar and a rumour monger, despite the fact that we are the ones dealing with this BS right now.

hdrydor said:

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It's certainly been an eye opening experience discussing the issue with the other "particular side". It's been made clear if you're not on board with wind farm development, any and every where, you're a liar and a rumour monger, despite the fact that we are the ones dealing with this BS right now.

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If that's what you got out of this thread, well we've found the problem. What was suggested was to become educated, express facts, and remove emotion.

Your response just now was the exact opposite of that. You're only hurting your cause because the average educated person looks at the situation like this.

"If the people looking for support can't speak to the issue without using rumors, myths, and inaccurate information, they aren't a viable source. If they can't present in facts why it's wrong, it probably isn't. And if it's just emotional rants it's probably NIMBY."

What you don't seem to understand is your asking someone who isn't impacted negatively by this, but will probably use the electricity it supplies to forget about their own problems and champion your problem. A problem they most likely will never see, but will benefit. I hope if this cause is as important as y'all seem to indicate you take a step back, learn a little more, and put together a much better plan to educate the masses and fight it. Otherwise, at this current trajectory your just wasting your and everyone else's time. Which ultimately will kill just as much support as it may find.

I hear you and appreciate your response. "You're a liar" is not a well educated, informed, factual reply to folks that have posted their personal experiences. That's all I was responding to with my last post.