I feel ya there. I have put hunting gear on every Christmas and birthday wish list for the past few years.
My wife has come to the conclusion I will buy it any ways. She might as well get it for Christmas instead.

Just get you one of these and forego the cost of a new bag.

They work well. I keep one with me when I camp. It's basically a silk sock for your body.

I will eventually cut out the mummy bag entirely and get a backpacking quilt. The bottoms of a sleeping bag doesn't fluff or keep you warm any ways, the sleeping pad does. Cutting out the bottom weight saves a pound or 2 for something else in your pack.

https://enlightenedequipment.com/enigma/

aggie1819 said:

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They work well. I keep one with me when I camp. It's basically a silk sock for your body.

I will eventually cut out the mummy bag entirely and get a backpacking quilt. The bottoms of a sleeping bag doesn't fluff or keep you warm any ways, the sleeping pad does. Cutting out the bottom weight saves a pound or 2 for something else in your pack.

https://enlightenedequipment.com/enigma/

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Enlightened makes good stuff. I got my son one of their children's quilt a few years ago.

The only thing I will add about clothing is the name brand stuff works all the time, in every situation, and will last years and years. I splurged on Sitka 7-8 years ago and have never been unhappy due to clothing failure. It all looks like new still and it has been abused. No rips, tears, zipper failures. Yeah it's crazy expensive but you only have to buy it once. If you think you might be mountain hunting a lot it's the way to go. I replace my boots every 2-3 years but not my clothes.

I'll offer the dissenting opinion on rain gear. I have lots of expensive mountain clothing, but my raingear is heavy LL Bean quiet camo raingear and a golite poncho. Golite poncho is always in my daypack (I consider it part of my basic survival gear), but the real raingear stays in the truck for the most part. Unless you are hunting archery it doesn't rain much during places with elk during elk season (and even then I bet snow is more common). Also I don't hunt in the rain if I can help it, and I justify this by telling myself that elk stay bedded down when it's raining.

So say you have a big hunt planned in the intermountain west, $600 is a lot of money to spend on something you may not use, and even worse, that's weight you're gonna be carrying that you may not need. Get a good light poncho, watch the weather, and if it looks like you're gonna have a week of rain, spend the money and get some good stuff. If there's just a small chance of rain one or two days, forget about it, save the credit card for the processor. It's not like Houston where 20% chance means it's gonna drizzle all day. In CO 20% means it's probably not gonna rain, and if it does it'll get it over with and turn sunny again in an hour.

If you get close to your hunt date and there's a chance of rain one or two days, or you just can't fathom the idea of going backpacking without rain gear, get the camo frog toggs and toss it in the pack. It's cheap, light, more or less waterproof, more or less breathable, fits like a snuggie and is about as durable as 2-ply, but it'll let you hunt if you have a rain day. If the forecast is cold (20s) and snow, softshells and a puffy jacket will shed that just fine. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Interesting note on the quilt...looks like it could save me about 1.5 lbs. I'll need to check it out.

I love the bag liner because I primarily archery hunt, so I only carry an ultralight 30* bag. If it gets a little chilly, I use the Reactor as a liner. If it's a little warm, I use the reactor as a light blanket and sleep on top of my bag.

This has turned back into an awesome thread.

I have a -10 Convert from EE with 850 duck down. Weighs 2 lbs. It is awesome.

Curious as to how you guys as first timers (or even non first timers) choose what unit you want to hunt?

lazuras_dc said:

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Curious as to how you guys as first timers (or even non first timers) choose what unit you want to hunt?

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I called Hunting fool and studied wilderness areas. Their magazine and draw services are a wealth of information. Another good resource is gohunt.com

Since choosing my unit I have been glued to google earth and maps trying to find the best places to scout.

I'll be an elk rookie this year. I figure any unit you hunt OTC or can draw with zero points will be high pressure. I love been scouring google earth and guhunt for almost a year and looked for a combination of wilderness areas and topography that would get me away from road/day hunting traffic and a drop camp service that would take me where I want to go which helped me zone in on my unit. That and two guys on this forum that I sent PM's to who hunted it a couple years ago

Water Turkey07 said:

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I'll be an elk rookie this year. I figure any unit you hunt OTC or can draw with zero points will be high pressure. I love been scouring google earth and guhunt for almost a year and looked for a combination of wilderness areas and topography that would get me away from road/day hunting traffic and a drop camp service that would take me where I want to go which helped me zone in on my unit. That and two guys on this forum that I sent PM's to who hunted it a couple years ago

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Are you going solo? I'm in talks w/ NRD09 trying to plan a trip. e-mail me if interested in getting a texags group together to bag some elk this fall! lazurasdc at yahoo dot com

PM sent

OTC, zero point unit elk hunting sucks.

I've got too many points to quit now - in no-mans land between the meh units and the great ones, so I'll keep chasing point creep.

That said, if I were starting over, here's what I'd do in CO:

1) Apply for pref points for 1-2 years.
2) Burn those pref points to draw a muzzleloader season tag
3) Repeat

So much hunting pressure in OTC, zero point draw rifle season units. And I'll be the first to tell you that we did EVERYTHING you're all talking about...

- walk in further
- avoid roads
- no ATV area
- keep walking
- go blind staring at Google Earth
- talk to other hunters/bios in the area

When it comes down to it, you're hunting the same area as guides with horses. You cannot out walk a horse.

On top of that, you're hunting migratory animals during the time when they may or may not migrate (3rd season in CO). So you're about 98% tied to the weather, hoping and praying for the right conditions to get the elk down. The other 2%? Yeah thats a little luck mixed in with hard work. It absolutely can be done. But it also sucks to get your tag in the mail, show up in CO with a plan, only to find other hunters (lots), ill timed weather (often), and behind the horse hunters.

Solution to all the above? Wait a year or 2. Get a few points. Hunt a diff season with a primitive weapon. You'll see less hunters, be less tied to the weather/migration, and have a more enjoyable hunt. You're odds of success are higher.

Ha. I just re-read my own post. I sound very much like old-man-yells-at-cloud. But when you eat enough tag soup, you either wise up and figure out how to do it differently, or you keep pounding your head on the concrete. Take it from me - don't pound your head on the concrete.

I have had plenty of shots on cows on OTC. Only a few bulls worth shooting. I don't mind if I don't kill. A hunt for me is about the experience, not the kill. 2 weeks in the woods is amazing kill or no kill. It gets in your blood and changes you.

A couple of thoughts on narrowing down a unit.

- Do you want to hunt every year (OTC, easy draws, etc)?
- How far do you want to drive? (do you want to drive to Pagosa springs or steamboat?)
- Look thru the data. Hunter success rates, number of hunters, and elk population numbers. This should narrow your search down to like 5-10 units.
- Look at each unit on google maps or onX (worth every penny) to get a feel for the roads, trails, etc. How do you want to hunt? Backpack/bivy hunt, or big base camp every night, or some combo. Glassing intensive or more still hunting timber? Be honest with yourself about what kind of shape you're in and what gear you have. You can probably start to narrow out some places this way (too many roads, not enough roads/trails, etc).

At the end of that you'll probably find you're down to 2 or 3 units. At that point, just pick one and go scout. It's tough to get over the feeling that one unit will offer a significantly better hunt than another. But the truth is, there's elk in every unit and it's gonna be difficult to find and kill them no matter the unit for OTC/easy draws.

I've found this website to be really useful to sift thru the data. It's not the most intuitive, but I think he has a video on it. No affiliation with this guy, just met him in the A-basin parking lot skiing one day and got to talking elk.
Hunt the Rockies

aggie1819 said:

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I have had plenty of shots on cows on OTC. Only a few bulls worth shooting. I don't mind if I don't kill. A hunt for me is about the experience, not the kill. 2 weeks in the woods is amazing kill or no kill. It gets in your blood and changes you.

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Completely agree. The other alternative for the newbies is to start archery hunting. Your success rate on a public land DIY OTC hunt is only about 10%, but there is generally less pressure and you get to experience the rut. This is all I really ever do, so keep my comments within that frame of reference.

A few pieces of random advice:

Calling

• Don't over-call. In fact, if you can put eyes on the animal, avoid the temptation to call altogether. If you need to call, only use it as an initial locator. If you can actually see the animal (or you're confident where it is), your chances of success from a spot and stalk are much better than your chances of calling it into close range. There are always exceptions, but I've found this to be generally true.
• If you're an inexperienced caller or inexperienced with elk communication in general, you'll find yourself calling back and forth with other hunters more than other animals. Trust me, it's a maddening.

Glassing/Stalking

• You can't spend too much time glassing and patterning elk. Get yourself a good tripod and good optics, and be prepared to make long sits. This will provide a better opportunity of seeing elk than randomly imprinting yourself all over their habitat. Let other hunters do that, then capitalize on their mistakes when they push animals.
• A good strategy after spotting elk is to put them to bed. Pattern their movement into/out of bedding areas, letting them settle down for their mid-day rest. Then put the stalk on them. Move slower than you think humanly possible, then slow down some more.
• Wind is your biggest ally and your worst enemy. Use a wind checker (something like Smoke in a Bottle). You're generally safer to drop down on an animal from above than stalk uphill from below. In the mountains, warm thermals will almost always blow uphill.
• When you glass an animal and decide to go after it, make sure you get really good reference points before you strike off. Things just tend to look much different than you'd expect from different points of reference.

Don't be afraid to talk to other hunters. There's a good chance they may be chasing other species, and you may be able to exchange useful information with them.

Once you choose your area, call the local game warden when you're a few months out. Let them know who you are, your dates/plans, what vehicle you drive, etc. Take the time to ask them what normally gets OOS hunters in trouble and give them the confidence you're a good guy trying to do things the right way. They will remember you, and you never know what nuggets they may provide.

Safety

• Always have a contingency plan for medical emergencies.
• Carry bear spray (it should be your first line of defense over sidearms)
• Have a safety whistle - six short bursts in succession at one minute intervals is the universal signal for distress
• Carry an emergency tourniquet and know how to use it, along with basic first aid supplies
• Pack a reflective safety blanket
• Have a way to purify water

Know the rules and regs inside/out. Game laws often fail the common sense test.

Quote:

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I don't mind if I don't kill. A hunt for me is about the experience, not the kill. 2 weeks in the woods is amazing kill or no kill. It gets in your blood and changes you

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I get this sentiment. Even more when you have full time job and full time family man. Very little time for yourself.

But there's another side to this: Time and Money

Money: We all know its not cheap to go hunt out west. OTC is by far the cheapest. Gas, tags, food - it adds up. Then there's gear. Even on a budget, it requires some money to get the basics required to be proficient and prepared.

Time: Most don't get to go ever fall. I don't know the average number of years between trips for the OB, but I'd guess many once every 4-6 years? I could be way off on that. Anyway - you have to make the most of it when you go. Vacation from work, time away from family, etc.

If you're going to go, spend the money, use the time away - give yourself every chance you can. Collect a few points. Use a primitive weapon. Get away from OTC.

JMO

Question for you guys....

I have a 10 yo (will be 11 by next fall) who is in his 3rd year of hunting with me (whitetail in stand). I would love to take him on an elk hunt but I am just learning. Is he too young to take on a spot and stalk elk hunt?

Yes.

blockhead said:

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Question for you guys....

I have a 10 yo (will be 11 by next fall) who is in his 3rd year of hunting with me (whitetail in stand). I would love to take him on an elk hunt but I am just learning. Is he too young to take on a spot and stalk elk hunt?

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Got to be at least 12 in Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming to take big game.

I've taken my boys hunting from time to time. They do better as they get older. Mine do better on day hunts. Short hikes 4-6 miles. The times we've camped on the mountain they seem to lose their interest by the 2nd or 3rd day. That's just my experience. I've had buddies whose kids are all in for days at a time but I think you have to work up to that. When my oldest turned 12 I took him out and we hiked 16 miles on the first day. It didn't help that we didn't see much. It was 2 years before he asked to hunt with me again.

PFG said:

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Quote:

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I don't mind if I don't kill. A hunt for me is about the experience, not the kill. 2 weeks in the woods is amazing kill or no kill. It gets in your blood and changes you

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I get this sentiment. Even more when you have full time job and full time family man. Very little time for yourself.

But there's another side to this: Time and Money

Money: We all know its not cheap to go hunt out west. OTC is by far the cheapest. Gas, tags, food - it adds up. Then there's gear. Even on a budget, it requires some money to get the basics required to be proficient and prepared.

Time: Most don't get to go ever fall. I don't know the average number of years between trips for the OB, but I'd guess many once every 4-6 years? I could be way off on that. Anyway - you have to make the most of it when you go. Vacation from work, time away from family, etc.

If you're going to go, spend the money, use the time away - give yourself every chance you can. Collect a few points. Use a primitive weapon. Get away from OTC.

JMO

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The answer is it depends.

I'll be perfectly honest, it's hunting. I've done things perfectly right and came up frustrated. I've done the wrong things and had success. And I've definitely had a mixed bag when combining all the above. I'm not trying to come of ass an arrogant jerk, but I've been really fortunate the last two years and seen a lot of elk. Not a single 300+ bull, but close to a dozen shooter bulls on public land and I'm 1 for 2 on filling the freezer. Last year I didn't bring something home because I missed. Turns out that stumble where I lost my footing and fell that seemed minor had my rifle shooting 3+ feet high. Such is life. I enjoyed every minute of it and have added another bullet point to my lessons learned.

I've done unguided drop camps the last two years to gain good experience and speed up the learning curve (read get the courage) to go complete DIY in a wilderness area. One drop camp was close enough that I actually walked in and out from the trail head myself and one drop camp required a 2.5 hour horse ride way back in to the end of the earth. I actually think the closer one as better and I'll probably go back there whenever I get to go again next. The added fishing, better scenery,and more species of cool animals also didn't hurt.

In the end it comes down to understanding hunting (not all hunting the same), animal movement and needs, and being dumb enough to get to those places. I have approached each spot with the assumption that only 1 out of my first 5 plans (read locations or strategies) would lead to elk. Thankfully, it's been closer to 1 out of 2 both years which has allowed me to focus on the right plan fairly early in each hunt and have time to stay on elk. Each year I learn a lot more about elk and what parts of my plan worked or didn't and why. Each year my goal is still just to 1A) see elk and 1B) kill the first legal animal I see.

Everyone has different levels of experience, understanding, and goals. Public hunting is hard, but it's a lot more rewarding for me to beat the odds and kill a scrub bull, respectable 5x5, or nice cow than to go private and spend money I can't afford. Each year so far my love for the mountains and hunting western game continues to grow.

Personally, I'm just not in the place in life yet where I have the budget to spend what it would take to get the value in chasing huge elk on private property every 5 to 10 years. I'd rather get to spend a week every year on what could be just an awesome camping trip with the possibility of filling the freezer for the same cost. Again, everyone is different and that's what makes the OB great (so I tell myself).

Hard to say without knowing your boy. I'd say my just turned 9-yr old needs at least a few more years. You know your boy better than anyone. It's hard, and it can be dangerous. That said, it's all about perspective. If you think he's ready, and your purpose is to just go enjoy time in the woods with your boy and maybe chase some animals, I'd say go for it.

You don't have to be 12 to tag along, just to legally harvest.

blockhead said:

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Question for you guys....

I have a 10 yo (will be 11 by next fall) who is in his 3rd year of hunting with me (whitetail in stand). I would love to take him on an elk hunt but I am just learning. Is he too young to take on a spot and stalk elk hunt?

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My opinion, is he isn't too young (assuming he's just tagging along and helping haul out).

Would I take him on this trip? No. If you don't have any experience in elk hunting, your chances in getting into elk aren't great (see odds referenced here all the time). It's hard as hell to still hunt into elk or ambush elk on a migration route. To spot and stalk (to me) is a hell of a lot harder and the more people there are, the harder it gets. A 12 year old with limited experience will make it virtually impossible. He'll get cold, get tired, get hungry, get bored and be loud as hell.

Now if you're purely not expecting to kill anything, I'd definitely take him and make it an awesome hunting / camping trip.

Awesome advice.

I'll add have a mode of communication / emergency notification system that is activated and you are familiar with using before going. I use a global transponder, but there are several options. Having personally made a mistake that probably would have killed me if not for a little luck, I'll always have one.

Glassing is something I've wanted to do every year, but have yet to be able to do. None of the areas have been conducive to it. Either to thick (couldn't see anywhere) or too open (couldn't have got to them anyway). So far binoculars and taking my prescription sun glasses have been much more important that a spotting scope.

Agree on the scope. They can be unnecessary weight depending on your goals and location. I want the first legal bull I can shoot, and chance are I'd be happy to take a cow. My 10x binos can identify antlers from a long way. I don't need a scope to tell me it's go time. That said, in the right type of country, a scope can be critical...It just depends.

I plan on hunting in eastern Wyoming this year. I was able to get out for a few hours last year on an antelope hunt, but only as an observer.

My plan this year is to draw for antelope tags in areas I am nearly sure I will get drawn. I'm still weighing the costs, but will probably go ahead and try to draw a deer tag in the same area. (I realize the area numbers don't overlap exactly, so I'll have to be careful.) I figure that way I can focus on antelope and maybe shoot a mule deer or whitetail along the way but not focus on that hunt. Or, if the deer tag doesn't come through, I've earned a preference point.

I don't know if this is a good plan, but it's my plan so I like it well enough.

stdeb11 said:

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But the truth is, there's elk in every unit

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PFG in general you're right, but my advice to you is to keep looking. You haven't found your spot yet.

When I lived in CO I spent lots and lots of weekends scouting, figuring out where I was going to camp, putting together game plans, etc only to show up for opener and find that the trailhead was outfitter central. Without insider info there's no way to know if that's going to happen. I wrote a whole description of what's great about my spot but I'm afraid it was too much info, so suffice to say that my spot is a lot more accessible by foot than it is by horseback, and by horseback there are several easier options nearby, so outfitters don't bother going to my spot.

I've hunted that spot two years, killed two nice bulls (a 300 inch 6x6 and a nice 5x6) and a buddy took a 5x5, all within a couple hundred yards of each other. Also seen several other nice bulls there. Unit is OTC but I hunt it 1st rifle, which takes 0 or 1 pt depending on the year

NRD09 said:

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stdeb11 said:

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But the truth is, there's elk in every unit

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PFG in general you're right, but my advice to you is to keep looking. You haven't found your spot yet.

When I lived in CO I spent lots and lots of weekends scouting, figuring out where I was going to camp, putting together game plans, etc only to show up for opener and find that the trailhead was outfitter central. Without insider info there's no way to know if that's going to happen. I wrote a whole description of what's great about my spot but I'm afraid it was too much info, so suffice to say that my spot is a lot more accessible by foot than it is by horseback, and by horseback there are several easier options nearby, so outfitters don't bother going to my spot.

I've hunted that spot two years, killed two nice bulls (a 300 inch 6x6 and a nice 5x6) and a buddy took a 5x5, all within a couple hundred yards of each other. Also seen several other nice bulls there. Unit is OTC but I hunt it 1st rifle, which takes 0 or 1 pt depending on the year

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That's awesome!

I'd kill to be able to do that kind of research and be close enough to find "my spot". I'm jealous.

NRD09 said:

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stdeb11 said:

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But the truth is, there's elk in every unit

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PFG in general you're right, but my advice to you is to keep looking. You haven't found your spot yet.

When I lived in CO I spent lots and lots of weekends scouting, figuring out where I was going to camp, putting together game plans, etc only to show up for opener and find that the trailhead was outfitter central. Without insider info there's no way to know if that's going to happen. I wrote a whole description of what's great about my spot but I'm afraid it was too much info, so suffice to say that my spot is a lot more accessible by foot than it is by horseback, and by horseback there are several easier options nearby, so outfitters don't bother going to my spot.

I've hunted that spot two years, killed two nice bulls (a 300 inch 6x6 and a nice 5x6) and a buddy took a 5x5, all within a couple hundred yards of each other. Also seen several other nice bulls there. Unit is OTC but I hunt it 1st rifle, which takes 0 or 1 pt depending on the year

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So can you draw me a map of where you are hunting?

I'll only shoot the little ones.

Actually I'm going for mule deer this year. We shall see if I start chasing elk later