Just bought a 18in Faxon match barrel to put on my AR. Reading online all the different barrel break in procedures. They seem random, hard to understand, not based on any science, and a pain in the butt. Is it worth the trouble?

Just shoot it.

Some say yes. Other say no. It's a rabbit hole that I've fallen into on a couple different occasions. I would do whatever the manufacturer suggests and leave it at that.

Any worthwhile barrel made by a quality smith shouldn't need to be broken in.

NM

I hand lap every rifle I buy and go through a 200 round break in that pretty much just means I clean and scrub every 10 rounds. I worked in a barrel shop off and on for a few years and picked up habits from the owner.

Depends on quality of barrel. I've run 50 patches through factory barrels and never got the copper out. Run 3 patches through a bartlein and clean. The copper fouling will be worse the first several shots due to tooling marks etc, that's why they recommend cleaning. The better the barrel the less tool marks and less fouling. Get a possum hollow bore guide on midway.

Is it appropriate to disassemble and clean your barrel at a gun range bench?

JonSnow said:

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Is it appropriate to disassemble and clean your barrel at a gun range bench?

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I've never had an issue with it but I prefer to run a bore snake at the range because it's quicker.

I'm curious to know what effect this break in is supposed to have on the rifle. I have a few guns I bought brand new, mounted the scope, bore sighted, and then sighted at the range w/ 20-30 rounds & that's it. I haven't ever had any issues with these rifles whilst hunting and I have made kill shots from 30 yards all the way out to 350 yards.

Just wondering what I'm missing, if anything.

JonSnow said:

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Is it appropriate to disassemble and clean your barrel at a gun range bench?

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As long as you keep your barrel down range and don't handle the rifle when the range is cold/no fire you're good to go. I routinely take a cleaning stand and set it up next to my bench and will keep the barrel down range and clean w my cleaning rod, patches, and favorite solvent right at the bench.

do what the mfg of your barrel says to do

http://faxonfirearms.com/faqs/#4

Arctic Ag said:

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I'm curious to know what effect this break in is supposed to have on the rifle. I have a few guns I bought brand new, mounted the scope, bore sighted, and then sighted at the range w/ 20-30 rounds & that's it. I haven't ever had any issues with these rifles whilst hunting and I have made kill shots from 30 yards all the way out to 350 yards.

Just wondering what I'm missing, if anything.

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Repeatability. I expect 3/8" or less grouping out of my precision rifles and that's only going to be achieved out of well prepped barrel. You would be surprised at how many tool marks and chatter are down the bore of a rifle. Break in helps to polish these out.

Even some of the premium factory rifles have significant issues in bore. I have a weatherby mark v that looks like the edge of a quarter when I look through hawkeye borescope. All of these rough edges grab copper and is hard to get out if you don't stay ahead of it.

Arctic Ag said:

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I'm curious to know what effect this break in is supposed to have on the rifle. I have a few guns I bought brand new, mounted the scope, bore sighted, and then sighted at the range w/ 20-30 rounds & that's it. I haven't ever had any issues with these rifles whilst hunting and I have made kill shots from 30 yards all the way out to 350 yards.

Just wondering what I'm missing, if anything.

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Depends on who you talk to.

Some folks swear you need to break in a barrel before it becomes a good shooter. Others don't buy into the need to do so and go out and shoot.

You can ask 10 people what they think of breaking in a barrel and you'll likely get 25 answers. Same with cleaning a barrel.

Do what works for you and gives you the results you are happy with, leave it at that and don't worry.

Let the groupings decide. Sometimes the barrels with the tool marks shoot better with some copper fouling. Sometimes they need to be lapped.

CactusThomas said:

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Let the groupings decide. Sometimes the barrels with the tool marks shoot better with some copper fouling. Sometimes they need to be lapped.

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I've never seen a barrel that doesn't shoot better with some degree of fouling. There is a reason why the term "fouling round" exists.

WP69 said:

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do what the mfg of your barrel says to do

http://faxonfirearms.com/faqs/#4

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This is from the Faxon website. It seems to be saying that you don't really need to do a break in but if you really want to do it then try this:


A. Barrel break-in will depend on the type of steel and coatings in the barrel. Generally speaking, QPQ barrels do not need break-in, but those seeking maximum accuracy will want to follow an abbreviated session outlined below.
*Note- Shooters may use any solvent to dissolve and clean copper in the bore so long as it is appropriate to the application and will not mar the finish of the bore. Consult with the manufacturer of the solvent to ensure appropriate appliaction.
All shooting should be in a cold bore. No more than one shot every five seconds.
*Note- To ensure appropriate break-in, these procedures must be the first shots out fo the bore. Faxon does not recommend rapid fire immediately upon reciept until after break-in or an extended slow-fire session for accuracy testing.
4150 & 416-R QPQ Barrels
[ol]

Shoot once, clean copper out. Repeat this twice.

Shoot five rounds, clean copper out.

Shoot ten rounds, clean copper out.

[/ol]

Dont know much about Faxon, but I have owned Shilen, Krieger, and Bartlein barrels. I just shot them in, groups tighten up about 20-30 rounds in.

I never even clean the bore until groups start to open up again, which basically hasnt happened on my hunting guns, since I dont shoot high round counts through them. On my higher round count rifles (AR10, Ar15 and .260) they seem to need cleaning at around the 400 round count. Then, I just clean really well, and shoot them in with another 20-30 rounds.

Obviously, I keep the actions clean and lubricated, but it if you clean the bore all the time, you'll be chasing the zero all the time too.

So the issue to my understanding is copper? But the copper is not in the barrel to start but in the bullets when fired? And the copper could build up in the barrel over time and make deposits that affect accuracy? If this is so, why does the problem with copper go away after a break in period?

The more you shoot, the more the machine marks (called chatter)smooth out. The smoother the texture, the less it scrapes off the bullet, the more consistent it should shoot. People who are serious about breaking in a barrel will usually clean between each round so there is no residual fouling for the next round. This is supposed to maximize the smoothing effect of each round.

I am a gunsmith and I am not 100% bought in to the whole process. I understand the theories behind both the problem and the solution. However, most of my firearms are capable of shooting much better than I am so a strict barrel break in process gains little for me. In the hands of some of my clients who shoot long range, the results may be much different.

On my personal firearms, I clean them thoroughly and then scope them. If I don't find anything way outside what I expect then I do the following;

Shoot rounds, cleaning between each. The number of patches needed to clean will reduce with each shot. Once I only need a few patches to clean. Once I can clean the bore with just a few patches I move to the next step. This step is usually 5 - 10 rounds

Shoot 5 round groups, cleaning thoroughly between each group. Once I notice a change in how much copper is deposited by the group of rounds, I call it good enough.

I am surprised they don't they make copper free rounds that are only used when breaking in a barrel?

Wouldn't work as well. It's the abrasive action you need to smooth the chatter. Harder metals would be less abrasive and would just push down the high spots. I think the end result would be less repeatability.

Makes sense. Thanks.

Bottom line is if you are going to clean bore often you should follow procedure. It is hard to remove once you run 2 boxes through. I personally follow instructions for any gun I expect to shoot sub 1/2moa. Maybe placebo effect but I like a barrel that will
Clean up after a few patches rather than 50. Biggest gun cleaning argument you will find is using bronze or nylon brushes.

Seems like a very easy test for one of the youtube gun guys to do. Buy two identical high end barrels in the exact same gun set up shot from a lead sled, and break one in by manufacturers recommendation and the other with just normal cleaning routine. And then follow them for a 1000 rounds and see if there is any difference in accuracy or barrel life. Would be very interesting.

I think there are way too many variables to get anything conclusive out of such a test.

CactusThomas said:

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I think there are way too many variables to get anything conclusive out of such a test.

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If a test like that properly done cannot show a difference, then you have to conclude that it is of little use.

In the field of medicine there were many rules taught to me in medical school by very smart senior doctors. There were sort of like "wive tales" that seemed to make sense and been practiced for decades or longer. For instance you can't get surgical wounds wet for two weeks, you can't use epinephrine when numbing the toes or fingers, hormones prevent heart attacks in females, ulcers are caused by "stress" are just a few. They seemed to make sense and were taught be people very good in the field. There were rules so ingrained that it took years and years for anyone to even question them. When they were tested they all proved to be totally wrong. Not saying this wrong, just surprising that a very simple test like that has not been done.

To properly do the test take 20 barrels. Put them all in identical set-ups. Same shooter in a lead sled. Randomly select the barrels to either be broken in or not, but don't tell the shooter. All the barrels are taken from the shooter and either copper cleaned or dummy cleaned so shooter has not idea which is which. Follow then all for 1000 shots with the shooter blinded the whole time and only reveal data at the end.

You changed your experiment up there from your earlier post

ShaggyAggie01 said:

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Dont know much about Faxon, but I have owned Shilen, Krieger, and Bartlein barrels. I just shot them in, groups tighten up about 20-30 rounds in.

I never even clean the bore until groups start to open up again, which basically hasnt happened on my hunting guns, since I dont shoot high round counts through them. On my higher round count rifles (AR10, Ar15 and .260) they seem to need cleaning at around the 400 round count. Then, I just clean really well, and shoot them in with another 20-30 rounds.

Obviously, I keep the actions clean and lubricated, but it if you clean the bore all the time, you'll be chasing the zero all the time too.

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This has been my observation. It is fun to shoot and watch the group tighten on a new barrel.

My dad rarely cleans any of his barrels but he also does not really shoot enough to matter but he finally cleaned his Savage 99E .308 and the accuracy went to crap. I mean so bad he bought another rifle. Now after ~50 rounds, groups have tightened back up.

When you are shooting your barrels to tighten up the groups, do you think fmj range ammo works just as well for this as premium hunting ammo? Some of my 6.8 TTSX is 30 bucks for a box of 20. Not going to throw that down range at 50 rounds a session.

Also, discuss the effect of heating up the barrel by shooting too quickly on your groups (accuracy takes a a nosedive at least on my SS barrels) when you are "shooting in" a barrel to get your groups to tighten up. Does speed at which you do the shoot in matter? Thanks!

Some barrels are fine when shot fast. The shorter and fatter it is the hotter you can get it without ill effects. Sporter profiles, in most hunting guns are not meant to shoot fast - best to let them cool.
My .260 is M24 profile ("bull barrel") and 22" so I can get great groups shooting 20 round strings with little time between shots. My 300 win mag that was built for packing in on a hunt with a pencil thin barrel needs ample cooling time to get good groups.

And yes, it doesnt hurt to shoot inexpensive ammo for the first 20 rounds or so.

I typically don't let my barrel temperature get above 175-200 degrees. Once I'm at that temperature my groups will pull about 3/4" to the right and up at 100 yards consistently. I also don't like getting above that temperature because a typical carbon barrel will grow a few thousandths changing the bore size resulting in lost accuracy.

dr_boogs said:

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When you are shooting your barrels to tighten up the groups, do you think fmj range ammo works just as well for this as premium hunting ammo? Some of my 6.8 TTSX is 30 bucks for a box of 20. Not going to throw that down range at 50 rounds a session.

Also, discuss the effect of heating up the barrel by shooting too quickly on your groups (accuracy takes a a nosedive at least on my SS barrels) when you are "shooting in" a barrel to get your groups to tighten up. Does speed at which you do the shoot in matter? Thanks!

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Shooting FMJ to break a barrel in is just fine, but shoot with the ammo you i tend to hunt with when shooting for accuracy. Range/plinking ammo shoots different than hunting ammo.

Stainless expands at more or less 2x the rate carbon does when heated. One reason I personally dislike stainless barrels, but that is just me. They do tend to,throw,off heat fater, but once metal,expands, it tends to keep expanding for a while.

Most barrels are going to shoot best with some degree of fouling and after a shot or two down the bore to heat the barrel up and let the natural stresses between steel,and,wood/plastic hit the state that they will spend the longest time in.

Things like free floating or bedding help manage the stresses better.

Thanks fellas