Hoss said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Sprinklers don't stop people from stealing stuff or create more space for valuables.


Which was the entire point.

---

To be fair, the OP did specifically say he wanted something fire resistant. And sprinkler systems have proven to be very effective at keeping fire damage mostly limited to the point of origin. Probably wouldn't want sprinklers IN a gun vault though.

---

And ruin everything they saved from the fire in the process. They save lives. They also cost a ton, burst, leak, and malfunction. The insurance cost savings are eaten up by servicing them regularly to ensure they work.

There's a reason every builder and home owner building does everything they can to stay away from the codes that makes them a requirement.

AgLA06 said:

---

And ruin everything they saved from the fire in the process. They save lives. They also cost a ton, burst, leak, and malfunction. The insurance cost savings are eaten up by servicing them regularly to ensure they work.

There's a reason every builder and home owner building does everything they can to stay away from the codes that makes them a requirement.

---

You do realize that the sprinklers only go off where the fire is, correct? It's not like on TV where every sprinkler head in the building pops and floods the building. If the sprinkler pops it's because there's a fire nearby that got hot enough to pop the head, so anything being ruined by water was gonna be ruined by fire anyway. As you said, they save lives, and that should always be the highest priority.

The main reason any owner would ever try to avoid them is due to installation cost. Maintenance is low and they very rarely burst or leak if they're installed correctly. I've been in commercial construction for almost 18 years and have never had a warranty issue due to the sprinkler system.

I still don't think you'd want them inside a gun vault. You'd be better off fire-proofing the walls and ceiling. Elsewhere though, I'd highly recommend them.

Our backgrounds are almost identical, except I'm now on the facilities management side of things. To say sprinklers are the largest problem we have (even with a robust and expensive preventative maintenance program) would be an understatement. That was the same in every building we had our offices over the years.

I get it, you like them. My opinion is that in a residential setting (where they're minimally designed and never maintained properly) it's a bad idea.

You could use CMU with full fill cells and rebar reinforcement in lieu of concrete. If you're the least bit handy, you could do the labor yourself and save a significant amount of money.

AgLA06 said:

---

Our backgrounds are almost identical, except I'm now on the facilities management side of things. To say sprinklers are the largest problem we have (even with a robust and expensive preventative maintenance program) would be an understatement. That was the same in every building we had our offices over the years.

I get it, you like them. My opinion is that in a residential setting (where they're minimally designed and never maintained properly) it's a bad idea.

---

I tend to agree. The cost just isn't worth it in single-family until you start getting north of about 7,500 sf. Sprinkler systems are not designed to put out fires. They're designed to provide egress time. If a sprinkler goes off, the result is going to be about the same as a fire...a total loss. You're better off using fire walls to achieve the same thing.

AgLA06 said:

---

Our backgrounds are almost identical, except I'm now on the facilities management side of things. To say sprinklers are the largest problem we have (even with a robust and expensive preventative maintenance program) would be an understatement. That was the same in every building we had our offices over the years.

I get it, you like them. My opinion is that in a residential setting (where they're minimally designed and never maintained properly) it's a bad idea.

---

It's not that I like them. And I respect your position from the facilities side. I just appreciate what they do. From the contractor side though, if I have a choice I'd rather NOT install them just because it's one less thing I to have to coordinate. My initial point on their use in this application was simply to point out that the OP did ask for something fire resistant. I wouldn't personally put sprinklers in a gun/safe room, but it would be certainly be effective.

So has anyone had real world experience or done research with the aspect of providing AC to the unit? If you build it too tight, perhaps there would be an oxygen concern in the event of a prolonged shelter use situation (tornado), but wouldn't there also be a concern with smoke or water coming into the room via air ducts in the event of a fire? Or what happens when you lose power to run your AC providing fresh air?

How about the aspect of using the room as a storm shelter only to have a bunch of debris block you from getting out once the storm has passed?

Or say that the house catches fire due to lightening when you're in a tornado warning?

If I'm building a storm shelter/gun vault these outlier circumstances are things I want answers to before going too far.

Thoughts?

milkman00 said:

---

So has anyone had real world experience or done research with the aspect of providing AC to the unit? If you build it too tight, perhaps there would be an oxygen concern in the event of a prolonged shelter use situation (tornado), but wouldn't there also be a concern with smoke or water coming into the room via air ducts in the event of a fire? Or what happens when you lose power to run your AC providing fresh air?

How about the aspect of using the room as a storm shelter only to have a bunch of debris block you from getting out once the storm has passed?

Or say that the house catches fire due to lightening when you're in a tornado warning?

If I'm building a storm shelter/gun vault these outlier circumstances are things I want answers to before going too far.

Thoughts?

---

1) They make dampers that will close if smoke is detected or power is lost. That could solve the smoke problem. If you intend to use it as a safe room you'd definitely want some sort of ventilation, be it by powered units or just a fresh air opening somewhere.

2) Make the door swing in for the storm shelter scenario. There may still be debris in front of the door, but at least you can open it and yell for help.

3) If the house catches fire you're gonna want to get out regardless of what kind of storm may be happening outside. If your safe room is completely fire and smoke proof and has separate ventilation from somewhere outside the house (think underground air shaft to nearby location or something) then it may be a different story, but in general you wanna get out if there's a fire.

Ahhh. Symons forms. I hate those stupid things. I dealt with this and the stupid wedge bolts for over a decade. Don't miss them one bit.

My "safe room" is cmu block and a 4" concrete ceiling.
It has a solid steed door with 4 deadbolts and is hidden behind some cabinets. I like it well enough, but when we build, we are going to make a much larger room with a similar set up to yours. I really like the look of the safe door, and the ability to keep it "hidden" is a bonus.

I did 8" thick poured in place concrete with the Liberty vault door. They will pour beams under the walls when they do the slab and stub out rebar. Then will pour walls(also with stubs) while blocking out for door. Pour the top last. Unsure of our top thickness, I think 8".

A few thoughts I remember from my build (late 2015). I read it is generally hotter in the center of the house than along the perimeter in a fire so if an outside wall location works do that. Have the safe company who you buy the door from responsible for installation. The concrete sub needed to grind and true the gap as the tolerances are a little tighter than most residential concrete guys are used to. The safe guys did not allow for the final bedroom flooring thickness and had to come back out and raise the frame. Even though it hurt the fire rating I was worried about moisture and breathing air in case of a shelter situation so I put in small (2"x8") supply and return air vents.

Use ours as a storm shelter(main purpose), safe room, and gun safe. Put in basic lights and a land line, although the wifi and cell coverage is fine inside. Put it in/next to our bedroom and framed the interior wall along the outside edge of safe, and used an interior door to cover the vault door from view.

Thus far no rust and moisture. Also make sure the vault door can be locked and opened while inside in case the wife has to use it.

In my case the the concrete sub kinda wanted to do it so the vault door cost more than the concrete work. The vault doors are as much or more than full safes. If you made me guess I would say maybe $16-18k for the whole thing including carpet, lights, and cabinets/racks for a 12'x10.5' inside dimension room. Obviously only works for new construction. If retro-fitting I would go CMU backed with steel or something.