My 2 acre yard is coastal Bermuda. I don't water it. Ever. Not native, but it's low maintenance. I mow it, that's it. What is so hard about that?

Does anyone have recommendations for grasses that do well in the Hill Country - especially grasses useful for wildlife? I'm located near Fredericksburg. TIA.

We may be in the same boat with two fields (60 and 80 acres) historically cultivated in the Graford area (hour west of Fort Worth). Any thoughts on a mix for this area. Any other thoughts/tips would also be appreciated.

Here is what one NRCS guy has suggested. Just FYI, the deer are so thick on this place the oats we planted and fertilized this year has produced hardly any cattle grazing due to 60+ deer being counted on it on any given day. Anything that could attract doves would also be a good suggestion. Thanks!

Grass Species; % of Mix - percentages total 115%, but that is what NRCS sent me; followed by PLS lbs/ac

Eastern Gamagrass (San Marcos) 5% .50
Switchgrass (Alamo) 20% .40
Little Bluestem (Cimarron) 20% .68
Indiangrass (Lometa) 15% .68
Green Sprangletop (VanHorn) 10% .17
Big Bluestem (Earl) 5% .30
Sideoats Grama (Haskell) 20% .90
Tall Dropseed - 10%.15
Vine Mesquite - 10% .60

Anyone have any contacts for someone with a grass drill in Central Texas?

milkman00 said:

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Anyone have any contacts for someone with a grass drill in Central Texas?

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Up here, the NRCS has an 8' Great Plains pull type drill (suitable for smaller tractors) w a grass box for rent. Might check w them - or the local implement dealer. They will sometimes rent a used machine on their lot.

milkman00 said:

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Here is what one NRCS guy has suggested. Just FYI, the deer are so thick on this place the oats we planted and fertilized this year has produced hardly any cattle grazing due to 60+ deer being counted on it on any given day. Anything that could attract doves would also be a good suggestion. Thanks!

Grass Species; % of Mix - percentages total 115%, but that is what NRCS sent me; followed by PLS lbs/ac

Eastern Gamagrass (San Marcos) 5% .50
Switchgrass (Alamo) 20% .40
Little Bluestem (Cimarron) 20% .68
Indiangrass (Lometa) 15% .68
Green Sprangletop (VanHorn) 10% .17
Big Bluestem (Earl) 5% .30
Sideoats Grama (Haskell) 20% .90
Tall Dropseed - 10%.15
Vine Mesquite - 10% .60

Anyone have any contacts for someone with a grass drill in Central Texas?

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The NRCS office should have a contractor's list.

Yeah, I got their list, but they can't tell you who actually does a good job, and no one close around me is on the list. For the rootplowing, only after I told him who we were using would they tell me that that operator is often called in to fix other operator's mess ups. Have to rely on friends for good leads, and none of my local friends are native grass guys.

I'm also curious what the drill guys are going to say when they see the flintrocks.

milkman00 said:

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Here is what one NRCS guy has suggested. Just FYI, the deer are so thick on this place the oats we planted and fertilized this year has produced hardly any cattle grazing due to 60+ deer being counted on it on any given day. Anything that could attract doves would also be a good suggestion. Thanks!

Grass Species; % of Mix - percentages total 115%, but that is what NRCS sent me; followed by PLS lbs/ac

Eastern Gamagrass (San Marcos) 5% .50
Switchgrass (Alamo) 20% .40
Little Bluestem (Cimarron) 20% .68
Indiangrass (Lometa) 15% .68
Green Sprangletop (VanHorn) 10% .17
Big Bluestem (Earl) 5% .30
Sideoats Grama (Haskell) 20% .90
Tall Dropseed - 10%.15
Vine Mesquite - 10% .60

Anyone have any contacts for someone with a grass drill in Central Texas?

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Have you looked into the programs through Texas Parks and Wildlife? My dad is currently restoring our place in Rockdale to native prairie through their program https://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/land/habitats/post_oak/upland_game/pub/ . You can get a no-till seeder drill through the program or if not check with your county extension service.

Thanks for the lead. I was hoping to find a drill closer to Hays county than Rockdale.

We thought about the pollinator program, but went with the native grass program instead.

milkman00 said:

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I'm also curious what the drill guys are going to say when they see the flintrocks.

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Milkman

OK, I am one of the "drill guys" and admit, I do not know exactly what a 'flintrock' is. I can connect some dots, but I do not know the specific term. What I can say is, there are rocks in fields in Wyoming as well, so my comments are based on my Wyo experience.

A no-till drill normally used a double disk to create the seed furrow (like the Great Plains drill that I mentioned in an earlier post). If you are not being stupid with the machine, it can handle rocks as the double disk shank is mounted to the drill frame with a shock absorber type spring hook up. It just retracts over the rock and then returns to its setting depth after the rock passes.

One reason that I have had better results w a drill than broadcast seeding is the press wheel of the drill. When I examine the broadcast and drug field vs the drilled field, I feel that the seed is better placed in the soil w the drill. On the broadcast method, there is a % of the seeds that do not have any cover and another % of the seeds that are too deep. Remember, Mother Nature does not 'drill' her native grass seeds and is quite successful - meaning that native grass seed does not need too much cover (a shallow plant depth). BUT, if you are trying to go for it yourself, do not want to wait 50 years for Mother Nature and are using expensive seed, I try and maximize my chances for success - and use a drill.

Just my $0.02.

...would like to hear what you decide...

Native switchgrass, maybe?

I cannot even fathom what Texas looked like before cattle and Bermuda

Quick point on the TPWD drills. They will deliver a seed drill to you, but it is up to the landowner to have a tractor that can run it. I know what District 5 has, but I don't know other areas of the state on that program.

ursusguy said:

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Quick point on the TPWD drills. They will deliver a seed drill to you, but it is up to the landowner to have a tractor that can run it. I know what District 5 has, but I don't know other areas of the state on that program.

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...and this is why the NRCS up here rents the 8' pull type. Lots of guys w a 50'ish hp tractor. My 20' 3 pt drill weighs ~5000 lb and I need weights in front.

So you guys got me doing more research.
Sorry I'm not a picture poster, but here are some links.

The sling and pack mentioned below is something that I was going to do. I was going to double sling the fields with a # pattern to try to get good coverage. I've read on the Turner page to go across the wind when slinging, but with my field shapes and dominant wind directions, I figured trying to do it this way on a non windy day would be best. I have both a rubber tire roller and a cultipacker similar to the Brillion drill rollers that I was going to drag behind the tractor after seeding (still determining which to drag).
[url=https://www.turnerseed.com/sling-and-pack-system.html][/url]
https://www.turnerseed.com/sling-and-pack-system.html

https://nebula.wsimg.com/2b41c30a0e1a6d94072a8c266d21ceb8?AccessKeyId=773CB13C4DB2FD5FCE93&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

I found a Brillion Seeder on Craigslist pretty similar to this from YouTube, but with dual seed boxes. But with our rough ground, I don't think that it would work very well (would always be bouncing) and it basically just distributes the seeds more than actually planting them like a Truax native grass drill would, which have the rubber depth limiters on the openers. I assume you guys pushing for drilling meant with something more like a Truax drill. Except for determining planting rates, I think I could take the boots off my JD drill and let it fall out in a similar manner and then roll it and get just as good of result as with a Brillion (but I assume planting rates would be too high that way).

As for the flintrocks, they are baseball to softball avg sized rocks in the field. Some get so large they get stuck between disks on plows, or between openers on planters. Depending on the location, parts of the fields just seem like nothing but rock piles.

It will be enough to figure out the weather and how much to plow, or moreso how much to roll the fields prior to planting, especially if I go the slinger route. The Turner page talks about wanting a freshly disturbed, but firm seedbed. Was thinking of using a drag harrow prior to planting to disturb the soil if it rains before I can get the seed out after plowing.

I spoke with my NRCS guy again today, and he said he had someone have good luck just slinging it and then rolling it. Where I'm at, trying to get anything done in a timely manner means doing it myself (no custom guys close). Especially when I'm planning on only doing half of the acreage this year and half the next year. No one wants to show up for 60 acres 75 miles away from their home base right before a light rain, which is my planting window.

Thanks for all the advice/comments. I've got some time to keep working on the best plan for this task.

I'll try to contract the TPWD to see if I could get a drill even though I'm not in their program. I may also see what plant species they recommend.

Access to a suitable tractor won't be my problem.

Newer no-till grass drills have a coulter in the front to cut through any standing stubble or trash, followed by a double disk opener with a drop tube directly behind them. This is followed by press wheels. Soil and stubble conditions dictate down pressure and settings. The best ones have 3 boxes - one for tiny slick seed (switchgrass, bristlegrass, many clovers, and many Forbes), one for fluffy seed w/an auger (side oats, bluestems, Indiangrass...), and 1 for field seed like wheat and oats (eastern gama fits this). Often times with single box machines the operator has to stop often to add the slick seed in order for it to all not to sift out quickly.

If you absolutely must broadcast , have the seed mixed with 25# of CRACKED milo per acre.

Yeah, that's the type I'm asking folks about off the contractor list. Perhaps I need the contractor lists from other areas, because no one that has called me back off the local list has such a drill.

If anyone hears of one on Auctiontime or elsewhere like the ones that sold cheap over the last couple years, let me know.

I'm still going to check with TPWD too, but any other leads or contacts are appreciated.

B-1 83 said:

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If you absolutely must broadcast , have the seed mixed with 25# of CRACKED milo per acre.

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I know there's a good reason behind this, but I don't know what it is.... What is the rationale?

Sean98 said:

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B-1 83 said:

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If you absolutely must broadcast , have the seed mixed with 25# of CRACKED milo per acre.

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I know there's a good reason behind this, but I don't know what it is.... What is the rationale?

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. It provides volume, density, and the slightest hint of moisture/oil for the fluffy seed to flow and stay mixed with the tiny stuff.

Gracias.

Not specific to this topic (sorry for the derail), but any experience with sainfoin?

Perennial that works UNDER IRRIGATION in the northern 1/2 of the Panhandle. Too hot over the rest of the state. It's happy in Wyoming and Colorado.

Totally ignorant about this type of thing (as a kid, we didn't have soil, now we don't have rocks)

Would running a rock rake through your pasture make sense?

bkag9824 said:

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Not specific to this topic (sorry for the derail), but any experience with sainfoin?

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bk 9824

No specific experience although I know that for being a legume, the cow guys are not as worried about bloat. My irrigated legume is alfalfa that I sell to CO dairies and IL, OH, PA goat guys (goats must be good as these guys pay their own freight).

Back to native grass, I have it in the corners of my center pivots (non-irrigated) primarily for cover and general soil health. I do not use a legume in those areas as I periodically need to spray out the broadleaf weeds, so it would be a waste of $ for me. I can get one cutting of grass / year - early summer before it gets rank. This gives it time to come back a bit and catch snow in winter.

I am a fan of grass (not the CO species) and hope that milkman gets his project figured out. Everyone has their trigger, and one of mine is to look a healthy field of whatever. I remember during my student days, going out to the Brazos valley and looking with amazement at the cotton fields and the rich soil.

I figured I might as well weigh in on this as well on the machinery side. Just an FYI, I'm a Great Plains rep that sells the native grass drills down here in Texas, so I'm a little biased in that direction. There are a handful of Soil Conservation Districts that rent the machines out. Your only problem is only about half get their machines with Native Grass because of the expense of the native grass box. For the guy that was asking about central Texas, I believe the soil conservation district in Taylor has a rental drill or 2 but I can't remember if they ordered a native grass box this last time. Most of your government agencies that will rent these out with a native grass box are in Northern Texas. I know we just sold one this year to a conservation district a little west of Weatherford that was going to rent their Native Grass Drill.

As was said, if you are planing on planting native grass with a drill, make sure you have one with a native grass box. Regular seed boxes and native grasses don't tend to do well together . The seed bridges up and won't flow through a normal seed cup. One thing we have started recommending is putting some dry graphite on the seed when you put it on the box or spreader. It helps slick it up a bit and stop if from bridging so bad.

The Great Plains units do OK in rocks but if you are running in them long enough and the rocks are big enough something is going to break every now and then. Usually its just the lead coulter, but every now and then you can break a spring bar. If you are in a fairly rocky field, slow down some. Most of the time when I see units with rock damage, its because guys were going way too fast through bad conditions.

I'd be happy to answer any questions on our products if you have any specific questions.

Great Plains drills

Thanks for the input/leads guys. In reply to the guy talking about picking rocks....good luck. Way too many for this to be an option.

If Great Plains needs a place that will test your equipment in the roughest conditions, I am happy to provide you a 70 acre test plot for each of the next 2 years.

It comes complete with MLDP permits if you need some venison.

Haha. I'll let you know if they are looking for a place to test out durability. It would have to be pretty rough to compare to the bump track we run our stuff on. I feel for the guys that spend days at a time essentially running our prototypes over what are essentially 6 inch tall steel blocks stretched out over a hundred feet, spaced every 2 or 3 feet. Makes my rib cage hurt just thinking about riding in a tractor all day long over that track. Good luck with your native grass planting.

Thanks.

We all know real world testing beats lab results!

Native American seed co advertises "have drill, will travel"
Might be worth a call

You should call the TPWD Wildlife District 4 office in Kerrville. The district leader was the lead biologist handling a loaner Truax drill in District 3 before he moved to his current position.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/nonpwdpubs/media/cs_fl_w7000_1857.pdf. This is a publication on planting native grasses. From the TPWD website.

Quote:

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I do not know exactly what a 'flintrock' is.

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You are lucky.

I have a small hayfield that I have to keep the rocks picked up so the baler can cut without ruining blades. A couple of weeks ago, hogs came in and rooted about 200 yards on the edge of the field. I picked up 4 front end loaders full of "flintrocks" to get the field smooth again.

When did he change positions? Cool