I am looking at planting an oak tree in the back yard. The back of the house faces south-southwest with no shade behind us. There is a walking trail back there but nothing else. I am looking at Shumard Oaks and Bur Oaks. There is a live oak in the front yard. What is the boards opinion of these varieties? Bonuses/drawbacks etc. North Ft Worth with mixed clay soil (yellow/black).

Burr oaks are my favorite, but have huge acorns and aren't fast growing. Live oaks are slow growers too and do good with a lot of space. Shumard oak might be your best bet. A little faster growing than the other two in my experience, leafy and good for shade and normal sized acorns. I just planted some Burr oaks and Shumards this year in my yard and so far they are holding up well (my yard is about 2 acres though).

Another oak I like a lot is the Scarlet red oak. Consider them too.

Burr oaks are my favorite as well.

*****apin or red oak would be faster growers you could consider. *****apin tends to have more leaf coverage.

Do you have something against Asians?

Burs will drop sap late summer to mid fall but where you are planting should not be an issue. Just do not plant close to where you park in the drive like a certain poster has done.

Mexican White Oak - Quercus polymorpha is what I'd go with. It's a medium sized Oak that's one of the fastest growing white oaks. Canopy gets around 20 to 40 feet, drought tolerant, hardy, oak wilt resistant but resistant to other pests & diseases, semi evergreen leaves, and very low maintenance.

http://texastreeid.tamu.edu/content/TreeDetails/?id=105

i have the same question but for Austin. my builder owes me a rather large tree after cutting down one that was supposed to stay on the lot.

i'd like something that is fast growing. will be in backyard with South sun.

SteveBott said:

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Burs will drop sap late summer to mid fall but where you are planting should not be an issue. Just do not plant close to where you park in the drive like a certain poster has done.

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No. I'm a fan of their apin oaks. I have one in the front yard.

Chinquapin oak- fast growing, good drought tolerance, disease resistant, do fine in shallow rocky soil, relatively easy to find in nurseries, acorns & leaves highly palatable by deer (requires fencing/protection early years if deer are around)

Bur oak- Fast growing,vnot as drought tolerant, prefer deeper soil; disease resistant, leaves & acorns are beautiful but can become a problem/messy in fall

Mexican white/ Monterrey oak- moderate growth rate, highly drought tolerant, more deer tolerant than above species (will taste leaves but generally don't seem to browse heavily)

All three are beautiful white oaks which makes the resistant to oak wilt which is a bad problem in central Texas. I have used all three to replace live oaks that have died from oak wilt. Planted all three literally next to stumps of dead live oaks without any problems.

Chinquapin & bur are amazingly easy to grow on your own with FRESHLY collected acorns if collected just at or before drop time (turning brown from green). Don't let them dry out (they desiccate quickly & easily) or lay on the ground for long (they quickly get infested with seed weevils). Literally just stick them in the ground IMMEDIATELY (24/48 hours) & back up. Give them a drink & they'll sprout & be above the ground within two weeks & 8 inches tall within 3 months.

Live oak trees have a reputation of being a slow growing tree and certainly it doesn't grow as fast as a pine tree or a cypress but I think most would be surprised just how fast they do grow if given proper space (sunlight) water, fertilization and trimming. I have planted a lot of live oak trees over the years. I now live overseas and when I come home every year I am shocked at how much they have grown.

Appreciate all the input. Please keep it coming.

I've always like the Monterrey Oaks.

I think you should narrow it down to whether you want deciduous or evergreen. Personally I like the sun shining through in the winter, but it's a personal preference.

Oak trees in my yard:

Burr: 5
Live 4
Monterey 2
Chinquapin 1
Lacey 1................. this one is beautiful but "medium" in size
Red 2
Canbys 1.......... this one became a giant in my yard, not sure of recommended soil and temp

Non-oak: 1 Cypress, 2 Cedar Elm, 1 Dead Afghan Pine, several fruit and crepe myrtle

I was originally looking at pecan trees. I decided against those though because of the propensity of falling limbs. Would love to gather the pecans but the limbs were too much concern for my preferences.

I am wanting to do a single shade tree because the back yard would quickly be eaten up by multiple medium to large size trees. I am thinking of a single large tree situated just to the western side of the back yard for shade from the summer sun. Also wanting to have the leaves drop in fall to allow sun in the winter.

My thinking is with a Burr Oak or a Shumard oak the spread will be good for shading most if not all of the back yard but planted far enough away that trimming will keep branches from directly over the house. From what I read these also don't have much issue with the upper canopy killing the lower branches.

Does anyone have experience with St Augustine under wither of these varieties?

St. Augustine can do ok in shade. Our front and back yard is St. Augustine and haven't had any problems. The up keep in the summer months when it's hot is the issue. Needs a lot of watering. We are on a Well that coming off the San Gabriel River so don't have to worry about a water bill.

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We are on a Well that coming off the San Gabriel River so don't have to worry about a water bill.

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Diff topic for a diff time, but I think our grandkids and beyond will wish we had cared a little more about water resources, and a little less about green St. Aug in the summer time.

We don't over water and actually conserve. The river also provides water to the cattle and horses as well just not the house. All the cedar has been eradicated and ranch has native rangeland and trees.

BurnetAggie99 said:

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All the cedar has been eradicated and ranch has native rangeland and trees.

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Cedar is native.

Ash Juniper is a invader to native grass, other native trees and water hog. It is low in nutritive value, unpalatable to cattle, and altogether unpleasant. A 15 to 20 foot Ash Juniper will use 35 gallons of water a day. Clearing the Juniper allowed the ranch to flourish with native hardwoods, native grass, put more water back into the ground table, the dry draws have filled back up with water and even created new draws.

Devil's advocate...

While those facts are true to a cattle grazer, it doesn't negate the fact that Ashe juniper is native to Texas.

It has expanded beyond it's natural habitat due to clearing and improper maintenance for cattle grazing, which you alluded to, but clear cutting it is the number one reason the Golden-cheeked Warbler is now the (unnecessary) bane of so many hill country landowner's existence.

It's on of the few trees that have a root system that can penetrate the limestone bedrock to get to groundwater. "Your" water doesn't belong to just you.

Also, AJ should be measure off of trunk diameter to ascertain it's age. Anything over like 15" is an old tree that is where it should be.

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it doesn't negate the fact that Ashe juniper is native to Texas.

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Where did he say it wasn't native to Texas?

FWIW, the Golden Cheeked Warbler may be de-listed from the ESA. I have a hard time believing that the population has rebounded to 19x greater than when it was listed. I think its more likely they just got better at counting the things, but that's jmo.
https://communityimpact.com/austin/san-marcos-buda-kyle/city-county/2017/03/09/golden-cheeked-warbler-may-removed-endangered-species-list/

Apache said:

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it doesn't negate the fact that Ashe juniper is native to Texas.

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Where did he say it wasn't native to Texas?

FWIW, the Golden Cheeked Warbler may be de-listed from the ESA. I have a hard time believing that the population has rebounded to 19x greater than when it was listed. I think its more likely they just got better at counting the things, but that's jmo.
https://communityimpact.com/austin/san-marcos-buda-kyle/city-county/2017/03/09/golden-cheeked-warbler-may-removed-endangered-species-list/

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He didn't, but the prevailing opinion among cattle ranchers in Central Texas/Hill Country is "these things migrated up from Mexico."

I love the red oak. We have a lot of native red oaks around and have planted many Monterey Oaks. The red oak is such a pretty tree in the fall that I have to give it the nod for my taste.

As far as the side debate, I would argue that the Texas legislative branch has taken the side of the landowner in the most recent cases regarding groundwater useage, a topic that is completely different than surface water. Ashe Juniper is a native Central Texas tree. For multiple reasons it is now a major problem in many aspects of our lives, water useage being one of the biggest. Ranchers overgrazed, and fires are no longer allowed to burn widespread across the prairies. Those are two reasons we see so much regrowth juniper instead of the large native juniper structures of yesteryear. After spending considerable time learning and researching the juniper, I have come to the conclusion that the removal of the regrowth is am act of good stewardship. Once removed, the land should be maintained through controlled burns and practices promoting the growth of native grasses. That said, realize the topic is as elusive as fat side up or fat side down..everyone has an opinion

There is a ton of bickering behind the scenes right now regarding data analysis and interpretation.

Most of the data taken by researchers other than that taken by the city of Austin, Travis County (on the BCP) the BCNWR, etc, sucks.

The researchers largely have inadequate sampling techniques; those researchers that sample the same area every year (Travis County, City of Austin) are more detailed in their sampling methodologies.

Basically, any sampling done by outsiders largely severely over-inflates the number of birds estimated to be in any one area.

Thanks, I was going to let someone else say that.

Agreed with Bob.

that being said, there's a crap ton of GCWAs in Central Texas.

A&M researchers came in with different sample formula and came up with much higher numbers. The Land Office used those to challenge the wildlife dept and it is ongoing.

Yep, A&M sampling techniques sucked. They double and triple counted birds because they didn't know the territories. City and County staff know the individual territories of birds, and are much more detailed in their sampling methodologies.

I can blame cedar choppers for many a problem. A 22 in the radiator, scared off my turkey on a hunt because they were on wrong part of ranch, stolen whiskey etc. glad I can add the warbler to the bastages list.

Holy thread derail Batman!

FullDraw said:

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Holy thread derail Batman!

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I think we ruled out an Ashe juniper as a good Oak option for OP.

Based on my experience, don't let a tree's reputation as being a slow vs. fast grower sway your decision. If you water regularly, provide ample fertilizer, and trim to establish the desired canopy shape you should end up with a tree that is 30 foot tall with a canopy of 30-40 feet in about 12-15 years.