I make a lot of these, 8 ft vertical 2-7/8" tubing and 8 ft horizontal 2-3/8" tubing. If I am only making a couple, I usually do not cope the pipe, but instead just butt it together and use scrap to fill the voids.

H-brace on shop floor:

[url=https://imgur.com/oGpnFYW][/url]



The smaller tubing butted against the larger tubing makes a gap like this:

[url=https://imgur.com/fa5UZ31][/url]


I will put a scrap rod, this one about 1/2" diameter, in the gap:
[url=https://imgur.com/vF41Ybq][/url]


If the gap is smaller, just find a scrap that fits better... in this case 1/4" rebar:
[url=https://imgur.com/Q4ncPUP][/url]


After first pass on scrap rod:
[url=https://imgur.com/fe27LY3][/url]


In the oilfield we used to get shipments in wooden crates from International shipments which were secured with these 1/2" rods. The company just threw the rods away, so a lot of them made it to my shop. I wish I had more. They come in handy.

Oh yeah, edit to add, I also did not cope the pipe because I am currently out of Acetylene.

TwoMarksHand said:

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I've been welding since high school. Only at a neighbor's ranch and our ranch and a shop in College Station. But I never heard it called "cope" the pipe. I've always said "saddle". Is this an industry term, or just geographical slang? Interesting note to me.

Also, If anyone has a resource to saddle (or cope) different sizes of pipe to each other, I am all ears. Example, our poles in the ground are 3", but I have some 2" pipe that I need to saddle to fit correctly. Most saddles that I've found are 2" to 2" or 3" to 3"...always the same size to the same size.

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You might find what you are looking for here.
Releeco.com.

TwoMarksHand said:

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I've been welding since high school. Only at a neighbor's ranch and our ranch and a shop in College Station. But I never heard it called "cope" the pipe. I've always said "saddle". Is this an industry term, or just geographical slang? Interesting note to me.

Also, If anyone has a resource to saddle (or cope) different sizes of pipe to each other, I am all ears. Example, our poles in the ground are 3", but I have some 2" pipe that I need to saddle to fit correctly. Most saddles that I've found are 2" to 2" or 3" to 3"...always the same size to the same size.

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I worked for Alamo Iron Works.... steel fabrication division for 5 years, and that's what they called it.

Like you said, I have never seen any marking jig for fitting different pipe sizes. But the difference is very little. I have a marker for 2-7/8 and one for 2-3/8. The marking profile is very close, but of course they don't fit around the wrong size pipe. But if you are butting 2" into 3" for example, you can mark the end of the 2" for the cope as if you were welding into 2" pipe, and then cut just a bit shallower until it fits the 3". After you do one of them you will know exactly how much to fudge it for the next ones.

I saw THESE at my local metal supplier the other day. if I was coping a bunch of the same size pipe I would have bought one. You have to buy one for each diameter pipe ( but like Allen76 said, the diff between them is little).


There are also templates online that you can print, cut out, then trace to your work piece.

Next time you make a saddle cut for 2 3/8 tubing for 2 7/8 pipe, trim it up for a perfect fit then make a template out of template material(?). Use sheet cork material, wrap it around your saddle and tap the edge with a hammer. It will cut the cork to match your saddle. You will have a homemade template.

Allen76 said:

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TwoMarksHand said:

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I've been welding since high school. Only at a neighbor's ranch and our ranch and a shop in College Station. But I never heard it called "cope" the pipe. I've always said "saddle". Is this an industry term, or just geographical slang? Interesting note to me.

Also, If anyone has a resource to saddle (or cope) different sizes of pipe to each other, I am all ears. Example, our poles in the ground are 3", but I have some 2" pipe that I need to saddle to fit correctly. Most saddles that I've found are 2" to 2" or 3" to 3"...always the same size to the same size.

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I worked for Alamo Iron Works.... steel fabrication division for 5 years, and that's what they called it.

Like you said, I have never seen any marking jig for fitting different pipe sizes. But the difference is very little. I have a marker for 2-7/8 and one for 2-3/8. The marking profile is very close, but of course they don't fit around the wrong size pipe. But if you are butting 2" into 3" for example, you can mark the end of the 2" for the cope as if you were welding into 2" pipe, and then cut just a bit shallower until it fits the 3". After you do one of them you will know exactly how much to fudge it for the next ones.

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What I end up doing is cutting out a saddle as close to correct as I can, heat the lips of the saddle red hot, and then smash the pipe repeatedly against the other. That usually forms it enough to not have any gaps.

Also, I hate, hate welding gaps.

I've always used the term "notch" or "fish mouth" but I have heard of the other terms mentioned here.

I hope yall didn't fit and weld like that while you were at AIW!

I used to do a lot of work with those guys back in the day before the bankruptcy. Still do some work.

Also, if you're building multiple braces you'd be way better off building a jig. Pre cut all your pieces and then it's just welding after that. Much faster.

Ducks4brkfast said:

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I hope yall didn't fit and weld like that while you were at AIW!

I used to do a lot of work with those guys back in the day before the bankruptcy. Still do some work.

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Haha....nope, I would call this "ranch welding".... make the most out of what you have.

I worked there as an estimator from 1994 to 2000.

As far as square tubing, that would be great and much easier. But I already have the 2-7/8 and 2-3/8 tubing.

3" PVC end caps fit just right with a little persuasion over 2 7/8 drill stem and save time over cutting circles and welding caps as well.

You know you can butt up the pipes up to each other and simply scribe an offset saddle line, right? Regardless of pipe sizes.

Also, you can buy manual pipe notchers to cope the ends of the pipe for saddle joints. Or get after it with a grinder.

Bolts and rebar are not for welding unless they are grades designed for that purpose.

SWCBonfire said:

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You know you can butt up the pipes up to each other and simply scribe an offset saddle line, right? Regardless of pipe sizes.

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Excuse my ignorance but how? Got any videos I can watch? not sarcasm, actually interested.

I've got a hinged template or two I can use to draw the lines for this type of thing, but frankly I usually just eyeball it with a sharpie, or so what you did and fill the gap, either by multiple passes with lower amperage and a heavy deposit rod, or with scrap.

That pipe's not going to be integrity tested and holding 1500 psi of hydraulics or something. It's probably overengineered structural, and at a point, steel is steel. That scrap will melt into that gap just fine with some good welds on the seams and get the job done adequately for your needs.

Dang I feel the overkill coming out in me (that I've mocked my dad all these years) when I think 'how's that gonna fit in our 5 ft postholes'

SWCBonfire said:

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When you butted up the end of that pipe, the outside edge was a certain distance away from the surface of the pipe it was butted up against. Anywhere along the circumference of the pipe to be cut, it should be that distance from the surface of the other pipe. Lay a ruler flat on the surface of the other pipe, poke it out where it touches the other pipe, and mark that distance. Work your way around the pipe.

Most guys just do it by hand for farm work.

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+1
That fill area is the distance you need for your mark as mentioned. If it's 1" then use the vertical pipe as a guide and hold the soap 1" off the vertical to mark the H top and bottom. Easy to do for 90's.

shaynew1 said:

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Dang I feel the overkill coming out in me (that I've mocked my dad all these years) when I think 'how's that gonna fit in our 5 ft postholes'

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Haha I know what you mean. Our old rule for corner posts is/was 5 ft in and 5 ft out. But with tubing that comes in random 31+ ft joints I cut the joint exactly in half and then cut those pieces in half to get four approximate eight footers. 39" goes in the ground but I still dig it a minimum of 48" so the concrete goes that deep.

Having 75 acres of pipe fence,, we started out cutting saddles with torch, but later found this company that makes them at a reasonable price. Saves a lot of time they are called Tapp Gate out of tyler area.

https://houston.craigslist.org/grd/d/pipe-fencing-made-easy/6314143036.html

https://livestock.com/print/736/item.html

Well, that solves TwoMarksHand's question of butting 2-3/8 into 2-7/8.... they have one just for that application.

Just built about 300 feet of 2 7/8" drill stem fencing. The Saddled-n-Ready sleeves looked O.K., but they have to be held in the right place and tacked on -- or else they can slide down the post. Makes it tough setting the top rail -- you have to tack the sleeves in place on the posts first (hoping they're all lined up just right), put your top rail on, then weld everything up. They also (obviously) have a larger diameter than the post you're putting them on, so you end up with a "knot" at the top of your posts.

I went with the Saddle Caps from CBI -- they slip into the I.D. of the post and are hardly noticeable. You put them into the top of your posts (once you've cut the post to the height you need), but you don't need to tack them down. You can set your top rail on them -- and they keep the top rail from rolling off. They also can "true" themselves up if you put them in slightly out of line. They're also cheaper -- a bit under $3/ea -- so about 1/2 the price of the Saddled-n-Ready sleeves.

I don't have any financial interest in either company -- just passing along my experience.

http://www.cbipipe.com/saddle-caps/

Thanks for posting that. Did you only use them on the tops of verticals?

Wondering about a horizontal coming into the side of a vertical post. I know it would be more complicated. I am preparing to do a small improvement to my cowpen and these little saddle caps will be very handy!

The double cross member has no impact on fence strength. The cross bar should be a minimum of 48 inches off of ground level. 72 inches your minimum width. There needs to be a second H or 45 degree down post for any significant length of fence

The proper term is notching pipe. You cope beams and a saddle is a type of connection. Either way, the cheapest solution to filling gaps on pipe is to smash the end of the pipe with a hammer. This makes it fit flat on the pipe you are welding to. I cannot begin to tell you how many galvanized handrails my company has built over the years that have smashed ends instead of notched.

Horizontal posts are actually no different. Cut pipe to the right length, leaving room for the caps. Tack weld one cap to the pipe; leave the other loose. Slide your pipe into place, and tack the loose cap and the pipe to the vertical(s). Fill in your weld. We did several horizontal joints with the caps.

I'm assuming scaling this up from tubing to pipe wouldn't work because the thickness of the pipe would make it time prohibitive?

35chililights said:

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I'm assuming scaling this up from tubing to pipe wouldn't work because the thickness of the pipe would make it time prohibitive?

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LOL. It would make it hole saw-prohibitive.

In a pinch we saddled some 2 7/8" drill stem with a portable band saw. The ones they have at Harbor Freight are awesome.

Harbor Freight band saw

Just buy Milwaukee replacement blades -- the Harbor Freight replacement blades are awful (the one that comes with the saw is excellent).



You can also make the same cut with a chop saw. As long as your welding is decent (you can fill a small gap), you don't have to be perfect with the saddles -- just close.