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Is catch-and-release less emphasized with salt water fishing?

8,820 Views | 74 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Kurt Gowdy
shiftyandquick
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Seems like with freshwater fishing, esp. fly fishing if you aren't releasing every single fish, you are a dubious hombre.

But with saltwater fishing, seems like guys keep a lot of their catch, and it's no big deal. Like it's expected.

Why? Because the ocean is big and the streams are small? Because there is a lot of fuel expense and other costs associated with saltwater fishing?

On my recent trip, if I had caught a large hatchery rainbow, I would have kept it. But I didn't. So I released everything. But I wouldn't have felt bad about it.
Lonestar06
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I release everything of legal size into lake Crisco.
Russ11
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It is something that is really starting to pick up here in the recent years; especially with the higher pressure and seemingly lesser fish populations as compared to past "golden years".
MouthBQ98
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I always considered saltwater a meat haul, especially with the slot limits and trophy fish limits. Get a meal, then catch and release, though for some species it is all CPR for me.
FIDO*98*
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Plenty of Catfish, Tilapia, White Bass, Striper, Salmon & other northern species go in the coolers.
RickSawyer
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I am 99% saltwater only, 100% fly only. I only keep a fish if it is not going to survive (rare). I enjoy eating fish and I do grab fresh fish from the markets close to my house.

I've evolved over my years on the water... When I was younger I was all for the meat haul. Then somewhere along the way I became infatuated with the trophy. Currently I simply enjoy being in the environment, being present in the moment and watching the fish swim away after a quick photograph to remember.

I don't harp on others that are meat haulers or trophy chasers. That is your prerogative.

With that said, I did grimace a bit at a conversation the other day... A friend of a friend who fishes LLM admitted to keeping two 30" trout frozen whole in his freezer, his plan was to take an epic stringer photo when he gets another 30+" in the boat. Again, it is his choice and I didn't dare lecture him on his beliefs, as pointless as arguing religion or politics quite frankly, but if I am honest with myself it did bother me.

-Rick
AgEng06
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RickSawyer said:

his plan was to take an epic stringer photo when he gets another 30+" in the boat.
Example #1348592 why social media is ruining (has ruined) lots of sportsmen. Guys will do the dumbest **** now just to be able to post it on social media.
JYDog90
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RickSawyer said:


With that said, I did grimace a bit at a conversation the other day... A friend of a friend who fishes LLM admitted to keeping two 30" trout frozen whole in his freezer, his plan was to take an epic stringer photo when he gets another 30+" in the boat. Again, it is his choice and I didn't dare lecture him on his beliefs, as pointless as arguing religion or politics quite frankly, but if I am honest with myself it did bother me.

-Rick
I'm surprised he admitted to that.
Formerly Willy Wonka
elnaco
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I think the Bassmaster circuit has a big effect on the perception of freshwater fishing being more about catch and release than saltwater. That being said I think it's just that, perception, and really only applies to large and small mouth bass. Sure the trout hippies are all about C&R but there' still plenty of people who meat haul trout and salmon. Also, I don't know many people who catch and release fish like crappie, white bass, or certain catfish.

I saltwater fish the majority of the time and now a days I mostly catch and release when fishing for trout and reds. Being the youngest of most of my family, I was always the default fish cleaner so I just don't like cleaning fish anymore. The exception to this is flounder. I'll keep and clean every legal one of those tasty little *******s I can get. Probably bc if I'm going after flounder, I do it the easy way and go gigging. Ain't no catch and release with that. My other exceptions would be snapper/ grouper of various species, tile fish and tuna. Those are worth cleaning as well.
elnaco
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RickSawyer said:

With that said, I did grimace a bit at a conversation the other day... A friend of a friend who fishes LLM admitted to keeping two 30" trout frozen whole in his freezer, his plan was to take an epic stringer photo when he gets another 30+" in the boat. Again, it is his choice and I didn't dare lecture him on his beliefs, as pointless as arguing religion or politics quite frankly, but if I am honest with myself it did bother me.

Wow. Well I hope a game warden doesn't see the picture, or maybe I do, being you can only have one trout 25"+ per day as part of your daily bag limit. If he takes a picture with 3 on a stringer I can definitely see a GW taking interest in that not knowing that two were previously caught and frozen. Even then it could be seen as wasting game. Also, the ones he froze will probably look like crap so his "epic" stringer shot probably won't look that epic when 2 are obviously dead.

I will say, the mindset of a lot of saltwater anglers seems to be shifting when it comes to big breeder trout. Seems like a lot more people are starting to release them. I fly fish most of the year, but still bust out the conventional gear in the winter and early spring to wade for big trout. Unless I gut hook one or something, I release all my big trout.
FishingAggie
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The fly fishermen are hands down the most conservative. The rest kill them all. Big, little all of them. I've watched it for years.

The truth is a lot of the trout you try and release will die. They are hooked deep and it just happens. I wish they would outlaw treble hooks on the coast.

Redfish will survive much better. Any guide who lets you catch and releas trout should have his license pulled.

Of course the bays have more fish I guess and tpwd keeps the limits set based on sampling.
Finn Maccumhail
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RickSawyer said:

I am 99% saltwater only, 100% fly only. I only keep a fish if it is not going to survive (rare). I enjoy eating fish and I do grab fresh fish from the markets close to my house.

I've evolved over my years on the water... When I was younger I was all for the meat haul. Then somewhere along the way I became infatuated with the trophy. Currently I simply enjoy being in the environment, being present in the moment and watching the fish swim away after a quick photograph to remember.

I don't harp on others that are meat haulers or trophy chasers. That is your prerogative.

With that said, I did grimace a bit at a conversation the other day... A friend of a friend who fishes LLM admitted to keeping two 30" trout frozen whole in his freezer, his plan was to take an epic stringer photo when he gets another 30+" in the boat. Again, it is his choice and I didn't dare lecture him on his beliefs, as pointless as arguing religion or politics quite frankly, but if I am honest with myself it did bother me.

-Rick

Good call.

I'm probably 75-80% saltwater and regardless of whether or not it's fresh or salt I'm 95% fly. That other 5% is when I'm taking my older boy who is just learning the long rod. He's gonna be a whole lot better than I am as I'm 100% self-taught and didn't start fly fishing in earnest until about 10 years ago.

I've never been a meat haul guy myself, mainly because I don't/didn't catch enough most of the time for it to be a meat haul. And I don't freeze fish. If I catch some keeper fish I want to cook then they I keep enough for a meal for the family and they get cooked inside of 48 hours. In fact, it's been 2 years since I kept anything but flounder and that was a limit of trout off the short rigs near Sabine Pass and those were cooked in a big feast for the family the next day- fish tacos and ceviche.

I love to catch fish and I love to eat fish but I do not like the time and effort to clean fish. Mainly because I'm usually dead-ass tired when I get home and the last thing I want to do is take that effort. The one fish I make an exception for is flounder because they're ridiculously easy to clean and they're delicious.

I'm not going to gripe about people who do fish for a meat haul but I it's not my mentality and I do think it would be better for the fishery if we lowered bag limits (on specks in particular) and instead of just stocking reds, trout, and flounder they would release baitfish and crabs too.
elnaco
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FishingAggie said:

The fly fishermen are hands down the most conservative. The rest kill them all. Big, little all of them. I've watched it for years.

The truth is a lot of the trout you try and release will die. They are hooked deep and it just happens. I wish they would outlaw treble hooks on the coast.

Redfish will survive much better. Any guide who lets you catch and releas trout should have his license pulled.

I'm sorry but that statement is just incorrect. Have a read of this

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233331888_Catch-and-Release_Mortality_of_Spotted_Seatrout_in_Texas

That paper talks about angling skill affecting mortality rate some which definitely plays into it bc yeah, if a croaker soaking googan is gut hooking fish, then spends 5 minutes trying to pull the hook out while he's holding the fish with a towel in 100 degree heat, it'll probably die. However, if you use good handling practices and don't gut hook the fish bc you have a smidgen of skill and can detect a bite and set the hook before the fish swallows it, they have a very good survival rate. I'll have to try and dig up a different paper that talked about gut hooked fish and showed that even when gut hooked, if you just cut the line and release the fish they have a very high survival rate. Water temp also affects bc of oxygen content but overall just correctly handle the fish and they'll probably be alright.

The only reason why treble hooks may play into killing the fish is they're harder to get out so you probably end up handling the fish more, thus keeping it out of the water longer and rubbing off more of the protective slime on it and ultimately killing it.
JSKolache
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I saltwater fish to catch a meal. Because of the expense in gear and travel, I want to eat something for my effort. But if its dorking around at the lake, river, drinking beer, etc then fishing is more of a pastime.
Serious Lee
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beefiedoubleoh said:

I saltwater fish to catch a meal. Because of the expense in gear and travel, I want to eat something for my effort. But if its dorking around at the lake, river, drinking beer, etc then fishing is more of a pastime.
agreed. in short: saltwater is work, freshwater is pleasure.
Salt of the water
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I'm lucky enough to get to fish pretty frequently, so now I just keep the occasional fish that I know will get eaten right away. I understand that a lot of people that don't get to go nearly as often which leads to more of a meat haul mentality to stock up. When I didn't have a boat and only got to go a couple times a year, I had the same mentality.

Also, not dragging a stringer while you wade is nice, and leaving a fish cooler at home will help a micro skiff draft shallower.

I don't begrudge anyone keeping their limit, but a few groups upset me. People who bring limits back to the dock and don't fillet at all, or fillet very poorly and waste a bunch of meat. Also, people who don't preserve their fish properly for long term storage (freezing) and end up throwing it out. Basically, preventable waste is upsetting to me.

All for 5 trout limits on the whole coast. 5 20" trout is probably just as much meat as 10 15" fish anyway.
FishingAggie
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elnaco said:

FishingAggie said:

The fly fishermen are hands down the most conservative. The rest kill them all. Big, little all of them. I've watched it for years.

The truth is a lot of the trout you try and release will die. They are hooked deep and it just happens. I wish they would outlaw treble hooks on the coast.

Redfish will survive much better. Any guide who lets you catch and releas trout should have his license pulled.

I'm sorry but that statement is just incorrect. Have a read of this

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233331888_Catch-and-Release_Mortality_of_Spotted_Seatrout_in_Texas

That paper talks about angling skill affecting mortality rate some which definitely plays into it bc yeah, if a croaker soaking googan is gut hooking fish, then spends 5 minutes trying to pull the hook out while he's holding the fish with a towel in 100 degree heat, it'll probably die. However, if you use good handling practices and don't gut hook the fish bc you have a smidgen of skill and can detect a bite and set the hook before the fish swallows it, they have a very good survival rate. I'll have to try and dig up a different paper that talked about gut hooked fish and showed that even when gut hooked, if you just cut the line and release the fish they have a very high survival rate. Water temp also affects bc of oxygen content but overall just correctly handle the fish and they'll probably be alright.

The only reason why treble hooks may play into killing the fish is they're harder to get out so you probably end up handling the fish more, thus keeping it out of the water longer and rubbing off more of the protective slime on it and ultimately killing it.


I don't care what that study says. Just like economics. You can find the numbers you want, just get another economists to run them.

I've fished on the coast my whole life. Hardly ever fish freshwater.

So according to you, with some angling skill the fish are unharmed. I agree with that to some extent.
Here's the flaw..... how many times does the average person fish on the coast? 2-3 times a year? Does that make a person skilled? No it doesn't.

The average person doesn't have the skill to keep from gut hooking fish. Especially with shrimp. Why do you think most guides never let you fish for trout once you get your limit? It's to protect their livelihood. Ask one.

Small trout will eat anything. They swallow it deep way too many times. If you actually believe whatever's in that study, you haven't caught many trout.


As for keeping fish. That's your choice. I love fish. Keep what you'll eat or want to. It's a personal thing that no one should feel uncomfortable either way as long as it's legal

Fishin Texas Aggie 05
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I fish 98% saltwater. If it's legal I'll keep it. For the time and money invested in getting on the water back to the dock why not? That being said I have lots of friends that like fresh fish and the rib loves fried trout and grilled drum on the half shell
Beckdiesel03
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When I was younger and didn't care about eating the fish I relaeased them a lot more(saltwater). Now my kids and I love to eat them so we keep them and can't keep the freezer stocked. Mr. Diesel is a big freshwater guy however and releases most of the time. So I guess we are similar to the above posters with regards to fresh and salt.
Ragoo
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Just like any game, I take only what I am willing to process and consume. I love eating fish and if I feel like cleaning a stringer I will keep whatever I am allowed by the state.
AgLawman
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I spend 90% of my yearly fishing hours wadefishing with artificials on the coast. I've never caught a 30" inch trout (I've been extremely close several times), but I've only strung 1 trout over 24" and she had swallowed a DSL plastic while I wasn't laughing with a buddy and not paying attention.

I'd like to think that common sense is still pretty common. I do keep a mess or two of trout (generally the 16-20" sort) and I throw the sows back to swim away for another breeding cycle.

In my view, if you invest the time and money to chase a fish, keep it if you will eat it. Just be reasonable. If you are fishing to enjoy yourself and catch a mess of fish for your family, have at it. But I do think that we as sportsmen have a duty to the fisheries to use some common sense. Practice CPR with the big, sow trout...I'll return the favor.

B-1 83
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I keep most of my saltwater catch, but have never kept a red over 28 inches.
MattyAg
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I grew up freshwater fishing in East Texas. My Grandfathers mentality was to keep everything. We would bass fish in the mornings and evenings. He would usually have trot lines out as well. Nothing went to waist but I got to where I only liked fresh fish and not year old frozen fillets. As I got older I started fishing bass tournaments with my dad we got to where we through all of our bass back. Most of the tournament anglers wouldn't dream of keeping a bass. After A&M I moved to Houston and got hooked on Saltwater. Now I have a place in Matagorda and chase trout at least Two weekends a month. I take a lot of clients and buddies who want to keep fish but I rarely keep fish when I'm on my own. I never freeze fish as I'm fortunate to go often. What I have always thought was funny is that I gave several clients and buddies that tournament bass fish and wouldn't dream of keeping a bass but will kill every trout they can legally keep. Most bass fishing is done in man made reservoirs and most of the fish are genetically engineered Florida hybrid strains. These are almost like fish farms in my mind. I have pointed to this out to several of the guys that fish with me and despite some comments about trout tasting better most have agreed to throw their larger fish back. By they way I remember bass tasting fine and never saw a worm in one .
CactusThomas
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FishingAggie said:

elnaco said:

FishingAggie said:

The fly fishermen are hands down the most conservative. The rest kill them all. Big, little all of them. I've watched it for years.

The truth is a lot of the trout you try and release will die. They are hooked deep and it just happens. I wish they would outlaw treble hooks on the coast.

Redfish will survive much better. Any guide who lets you catch and releas trout should have his license pulled.

I'm sorry but that statement is just incorrect. Have a read of this

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233331888_Catch-and-Release_Mortality_of_Spotted_Seatrout_in_Texas

That paper talks about angling skill affecting mortality rate some which definitely plays into it bc yeah, if a croaker soaking googan is gut hooking fish, then spends 5 minutes trying to pull the hook out while he's holding the fish with a towel in 100 degree heat, it'll probably die. However, if you use good handling practices and don't gut hook the fish bc you have a smidgen of skill and can detect a bite and set the hook before the fish swallows it, they have a very good survival rate. I'll have to try and dig up a different paper that talked about gut hooked fish and showed that even when gut hooked, if you just cut the line and release the fish they have a very high survival rate. Water temp also affects bc of oxygen content but overall just correctly handle the fish and they'll probably be alright.

The only reason why treble hooks may play into killing the fish is they're harder to get out so you probably end up handling the fish more, thus keeping it out of the water longer and rubbing off more of the protective slime on it and ultimately killing it.


I don't care what that study says. Just like economics. You can find the numbers you want, just get another economists to run them.

I've fished on the coast my whole life. Hardly ever fish freshwater.

So according to you, with some angling skill the fish are unharmed. I agree with that to some extent.
Here's the flaw..... how many times does the average person fish on the coast? 2-3 times a year? Does that make a person skilled? No it doesn't.

The average person doesn't have the skill to keep from gut hooking fish. Especially with shrimp. Why do you think most guides never let you fish for trout once you get your limit? It's to protect their livelihood. Ask one.

Small trout will eat anything. They swallow it deep way too many times. If you actually believe whatever's in that study, you haven't caught many trout.


As for keeping fish. That's your choice. I love fish. Keep what you'll eat or want to. It's a personal thing that no one should feel uncomfortable either way as long as it's legal




Why are you specifically worried about what the people who only fish twice a year are doing? They don't make any difference.
schmellba99
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Is this going to become the next chapter in the OB saga of out-outdooring and out-ethicaling everybody? Whether you are a catch and release person or whether you keep and eat?
RickSawyer
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schmellba99 said:

Is this gping to become the next chapter in the OB saga of out-outdooring and out-ethicaling everybody? Whether you are a catch and release person or whether you keep and eat?
No this won't.
AggieGunslinger
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I always assumed it was because redfish, specks and flounder taste better than the fish that drive the money in recreational freshwater fishing, which is mostly bass. Not as much on the fly side but it takes a lot of ACs prefered fish vs a good redfish.
BKClark
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the question is how many of those people that keep a limit of fish end up throwing them out because of freezer burn. That's a waste. I have friends that complain about the lack of fish, yet they kill everyone they catch. You can catch them a bunch of times, but you can only turn them in to doodoo once.

I have no problem with people killing fish if the are consumed
AggieGunslinger
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Yeah, that bothers me. I underwtand that sometimes it happens but we all know guys that are habitually cleaning out their freeze of old game meat.
MattyAg
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I agree on the flounder but I don't see what is so great about specks and reds. I usually make fish tacos out of them and of course they are good fried but I don't find them much different than a bass. Crappie and most of the deep saltwater fish are a different story.
ATX_AG_08
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schmellba99 said:

Is this gping to become the next chapter in the OB saga of out-outdooring and out-ethicaling everybody? Whether you are a catch and release person or whether you keep and eat?


I don't even fish with hooks.
Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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I don't get to fish as much as I used to and I'm still 100% salt. I'll keep 4-5 16-20 inch trout and any I think are border line mortality hooks. Almost never keep any reds, if I do, it is small slots and only because they are in bad shape. I'd keep any legal flounder. 20+ trout go back as quick and efficient as possible, that's been my M.O. after keeping a 30+ monster 20 years ago and feeling bad about it after getting to the dock.

I like trout fried or ceviche, no use for reds, flounder is for stuffing and broiling.

elnaco
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FishingAggie said:



I don't care what that study says. Just like economics. You can find the numbers you want, just get another economists to run them.

I've fished on the coast my whole life. Hardly ever fish freshwater.

So according to you, with some angling skill the fish are unharmed. I agree with that to some extent.
Here's the flaw..... how many times does the average person fish on the coast? 2-3 times a year? Does that make a person skilled? No it doesn't.

The average person doesn't have the skill to keep from gut hooking fish. Especially with shrimp. Why do you think most guides never let you fish for trout once you get your limit? It's to protect their livelihood. Ask one.

Small trout will eat anything. They swallow it deep way too many times. If you actually believe whatever's in that study, you haven't caught many trout.


As for keeping fish. That's your choice. I love fish. Keep what you'll eat or want to. It's a personal thing that no one should feel uncomfortable either way as long as it's legal


Yeah it's just like economics, except its a scientific publication... specifically on spotted seatrout....in Texas....performed by our good friends down at Texas A&M Corpus Christi...using that pesky scientific method. I've read it and used my own logic, judgement and experience and have decided it is credible. No offense, but I take it as more credible than the anecdotal evidence and speculation you provided. But I'm just trying to provide some hard evidence of actual mortality rates of trout in Texas is all. If you read the study you'll see they address things like angler experience and methods of fishing.

I can agree with you that certain methods and rigging will up the chances of gut hooking a trout (again they touch on it in the paper). Hell I even know of croaker guides who will tell their clients to wait until the second thump (i.e. the fish swallowing the bait) to set the hook. For those guides, yeah the mortality rate is probably much higher but they're a minority. I'm sure if an economist studied those guides they'd find a much higher mortality rate.

I can also agree that no matter who you are you're going to gut hook a fish every now and then, it's just part of the game. But even when I'm fishing with inexperienced anglers, even kids, with shrimp under a popping cork and we're thick into the ninja trout, we don't gut hook that many trout. No where even close to the majority, so yeah I can believe what's in that paper. But I guess I don't know what I'm talking about bc I haven't caught many trout...














AggieGunslinger
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F'n A, a good ole fashioned OB dick measuring contest. IN
shiftyandquick
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I didn't start it. The guy who said I killed a fish that I caught and released because I was wearing gloves. He started it.
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