I'm assuming it's some SJW protest over essentially nothing - mostly it's just "we are against big oil!!!", but admittedly I don't know a lot of details. I just keep seeing people "checking in" on facebook and saw another post that the pipeline is not even routed on any Souix lands, so i'm unclear what the protest is actually about.
What is this protest at Standing Rock Reservation about?
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Last: 7 yr ago by ComfortAg
Dakota Access Pipeline..... link with some information... I am not a CNN fan, but I think this is decent:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/31/us/standing-rock-facebook-check-ins/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/31/us/standing-rock-facebook-check-ins/index.html
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Spot on. This is always the resolution any time I've had projects take place on tribal land.skdeford said:
More than likely this will all get solved when the pipeline company agrees to hire a certain number of NA's from each tribe to help "supervise" the project. This is what we had to do. Basically just paying a tribe member to sit on their ass and do nothing.
Sounds about right skedford.
So what percent NA blood do I have to be to sit on my butt and get paid? yeah, just kidding
So what percent NA blood do I have to be to sit on my butt and get paid? yeah, just kidding
Apparently they forgot what happened the first time the white man came to them.Quote:
Apparently it's a big disrespect that everyone didn't come to them.
IMAGE DELETED - STAFF
So what you are saying, is that all this bad press could have been avoided by simply going to them and having a meeting on their land? Which, apparently, most were aware of it causing a problem due to past experiences. Seems like poor foresight on behalf of the company.Quote:
And when I say "consulted", they are mad that they were asked to GO to a meeting held by all the companies instead of all of the companies coming to the NA land. Apparently it's a big disrespect that everyone didn't come to them. They were asked to be a part of at least 3 planning meetings that I know about and refused to attend any of them.
No you're not.Allen76 said:
Sounds about right skedford.
So what percent NA blood do I have to be to sit on my butt and get paid? yeah, just kidding
I agree. Have the meeting on the Res and propose to hire some Sioux to work on the line. Get out ahead of the situation and avoid the bad press. (Though some would no doubt protest no matter what the case)
The article linked above says that it's not going on their lands and that all landowners have signed off.
Another article I read stated that the protests are because the pipeline will tunnel under the Missouri, and that there is potential to have issues with the water table as a result. Which, granted, is always a possibility. But that's where the benevolent overlords at ACE and DoI and the EPA and however many other alphabet soup agencies have to sign off on this should come into play. There are ways to minimize the possibility of issues, but they cost money and take time to construct properly and monitor properly.
I also find it kind of ironic that there are actual protest camps at the confluence of Cannonball Creek and the Missouri - people protesting oil while sleeping in their nylon tents, probably cooking with their natural gas stoves and, generally speaking, doing a metric crap ton more damage to the landscape in those areas than the pipeline likely will.
Another article I read stated that the protests are because the pipeline will tunnel under the Missouri, and that there is potential to have issues with the water table as a result. Which, granted, is always a possibility. But that's where the benevolent overlords at ACE and DoI and the EPA and however many other alphabet soup agencies have to sign off on this should come into play. There are ways to minimize the possibility of issues, but they cost money and take time to construct properly and monitor properly.
I also find it kind of ironic that there are actual protest camps at the confluence of Cannonball Creek and the Missouri - people protesting oil while sleeping in their nylon tents, probably cooking with their natural gas stoves and, generally speaking, doing a metric crap ton more damage to the landscape in those areas than the pipeline likely will.
The one time I worked on Res land, that's what we did. Seemed to make a difference, if anything just for some PR butt kissing. We had exactly 0 applicants from the res after it was all said and done. Luckily we already had a couple of equipment operators that were from the tribe on payroll and had them on the job (although neither chose to live on the res - in their words, they wanted to be civilized and not live in poverty).Apache said:
I agree. Have the meeting on the Res and propose to hire some Sioux to work on the line. Get out ahead of the situation and avoid the bad press. (Though some would no doubt protest no matter what the case)
Working for a Sheriff's Office in central Oklahoma taught me that just showing people on tribal land some common courtesy and respect went a long way to getting things done.schmellba99 said:The one time I worked on Res land, that's what we did. Seemed to make a difference, if anything just for some PR butt kissing. We had exactly 0 applicants from the res after it was all said and done. Luckily we already had a couple of equipment operators that were from the tribe on payroll and had them on the job (although neither chose to live on the res - in their words, they wanted to be civilized and not live in poverty).Apache said:
I agree. Have the meeting on the Res and propose to hire some Sioux to work on the line. Get out ahead of the situation and avoid the bad press. (Though some would no doubt protest no matter what the case)
this man speaks the truth. this will just turn into more extortion.
basically. Though I was under the impression that the land they were claiming as a burial ground was actually privately owned land not owned by the tribe, where the land owner signed an easement and has already been compensated (hence the protesters trespassing).
Also, the tribes up here are ridiculous. They protest crap like this a few times a year. This one just gained traction because some celebrities thought they would make it their "cause" and showed up to get arrested. Also, Jill Stein (the crazy Green Party nominee) was arrested there for vandalizing equipment, which made national news.
People would like to think these protesters are fighting the good fight, but these protesters are punks who are trespassing on private property, vandalizing machinery, setting fires, and generally being a big PITA. BTW, they are setting mass piles of tires on fire, so i'm sure you can guess why police are getting a little frustrated with them. Also, most of the protesters are not from the Standing Rock reservation, in fact, most are not even Sioux. They are just looking for a way to "stick it to the white man".
Also, the tribes up here are ridiculous. They protest crap like this a few times a year. This one just gained traction because some celebrities thought they would make it their "cause" and showed up to get arrested. Also, Jill Stein (the crazy Green Party nominee) was arrested there for vandalizing equipment, which made national news.
People would like to think these protesters are fighting the good fight, but these protesters are punks who are trespassing on private property, vandalizing machinery, setting fires, and generally being a big PITA. BTW, they are setting mass piles of tires on fire, so i'm sure you can guess why police are getting a little frustrated with them. Also, most of the protesters are not from the Standing Rock reservation, in fact, most are not even Sioux. They are just looking for a way to "stick it to the white man".
While it may have solved some problems to bend to the will of the tribe, it wasn't necessary nor legally required.
The company afford them MANY opportunities to work together, and they chose to do nothing. The ND state historic preservation office, the USACE, the EPA, and the USFWS all gave their blessing (as much as they can give) to this project in it's current state and alignment. The company spent hundreds of thousands of dollars making sure everything was done correctly and legally; and this is the thanks they get... a bunch of uninformed self-righteous A-holes delaying the project.
One on satirical video posted on facebook, it lauds that the pipeline is dangerous and will fail, while the info-graphic below on the video says that "since 2015 54 pipelines are ruptured in the US"... 54?! really, 54? HOLY HELL, do people not know how many thousands of pipelines are strung across this country?
I have gotten close to unfriending anyone who posts anything negative about it, or who claims that they are there protesting, as it just grinds my gears...
The company afford them MANY opportunities to work together, and they chose to do nothing. The ND state historic preservation office, the USACE, the EPA, and the USFWS all gave their blessing (as much as they can give) to this project in it's current state and alignment. The company spent hundreds of thousands of dollars making sure everything was done correctly and legally; and this is the thanks they get... a bunch of uninformed self-righteous A-holes delaying the project.
One on satirical video posted on facebook, it lauds that the pipeline is dangerous and will fail, while the info-graphic below on the video says that "since 2015 54 pipelines are ruptured in the US"... 54?! really, 54? HOLY HELL, do people not know how many thousands of pipelines are strung across this country?
I have gotten close to unfriending anyone who posts anything negative about it, or who claims that they are there protesting, as it just grinds my gears...
Try living in the area, knowing what a crock of **** this whole protest is, and then having friends (intelligent friends at that) saying how we are all revictimizing the NAs and taking their land.
I make it a point to extend common courtesy to neighbors on any of my projects - it's just good business, and generally costs very little in terms of time and effort and saves a lot of pain and suffering later down the road when people realized that they are going to be inconvenienced in some form or fashion. Doesn't always pan out, but it's well worth the effort and if you can get the majority of folks on your side, those that look for issues tend to look a lot less in my experience.Aggies Revenge said:Working for a Sheriff's Office in central Oklahoma taught me that just showing people on tribal land some common courtesy and respect went a long way to getting things done.schmellba99 said:The one time I worked on Res land, that's what we did. Seemed to make a difference, if anything just for some PR butt kissing. We had exactly 0 applicants from the res after it was all said and done. Luckily we already had a couple of equipment operators that were from the tribe on payroll and had them on the job (although neither chose to live on the res - in their words, they wanted to be civilized and not live in poverty).Apache said:
I agree. Have the meeting on the Res and propose to hire some Sioux to work on the line. Get out ahead of the situation and avoid the bad press. (Though some would no doubt protest no matter what the case)
On the project on the Res, we went above and beyond common courtesy - to the point of essentially ass kissing. Why? Because that is what that tribe expected. It was not fun (not horrible either), but overall a productive effort I thought. We were told that it went a long, long way with them in not having issues with our project. That in of itself made it worthwhile.
Granted, my project was a drop in the bucket compared to this thing, and we didn't have the current SJW social stigma of being petroleum related either.
No. They really don't.OnlyForNow said:
HOLY HELL, do people not know how many thousands of pipelines are strung across this country?
Most of our public doesn't understand that plastic comes from petroleum. They don't understand exactly how nasty lithium batteries are. They don't understand exactly what those trains and pipelines and 18-wheelers are carrying, or which is the safest way to do it. They don't understand how much pollution comes from coal/other energy production compared to gasoline automobiles.
They don't understand the small miracle that it is that we can drill thousands and thousands of feet into the earth, extract oil, transport it, refine it, blend it, and distribute it to power their cars for $2.00/gal. They're oblivious. Our educational system has failed miserably.
Hey, at least they understand where their food comes fro...
Oh, Wait.
Oh, Wait.
Sounds like we can't trust the white man
I actually think this whole pipeline is ridiculous. They're using eminent domain so that a private company can pump oil to a refinery and sell it on the global market? How does that qualify for eminent domain?histag10 said:
Try living in the area, knowing what a crock of **** this whole protest is, and then having friends (intelligent friends at that) saying how we are all revictimizing the NAs and taking their land.
I think this is what pisses people off about big oil companies, the fact that they get in bed with politicians and essentially take land from honest citizens all in the name of creating jobs. But that is not a valid reason for eminent domain.
I don't know the ownership or particulars of the Sioux tribe in Standing Rock, but after reading up, it does appear they're using eminent domain to take land from people in Iowa. I have a real problem with that...
I'm as conservative as they come, but just because we tend to vote for R's doesn't mean the oil companies are always ethical (or even legal) in everything they do.
I have no problem with them building the pipeline, but they need to buy the land needed for the pipeline without forcing people via the government to sell.
Aggies Revenge said:Working for a Sheriff's Office in central Oklahoma taught me that just showing people on tribal land some common courtesy and respect went a long way to getting things done.schmellba99 said:The one time I worked on Res land, that's what we did. Seemed to make a difference, if anything just for some PR butt kissing. We had exactly 0 applicants from the res after it was all said and done. Luckily we already had a couple of equipment operators that were from the tribe on payroll and had them on the job (although neither chose to live on the res - in their words, they wanted to be civilized and not live in poverty).Apache said:
I agree. Have the meeting on the Res and propose to hire some Sioux to work on the line. Get out ahead of the situation and avoid the bad press. (Though some would no doubt protest no matter what the case)
The answer to your question is that they are a common carrier, similar to electrical providers or telephone companies.
Except that electrical providers and telephone companies are used to provide electricity and telephone services to Americans, whereas this is so a private company can streamline operations and sell oil on the global market.HTownAg98 said:
The answer to your question is that they are a common carrier, similar to electrical providers or telephone companies.
Below is a quote from an article I read on this subject today. The water plant intake near the place where the pipeline crosses the river is scheduled to be shut down this year. Their "possible" reservation drinking water contamination they keep harping on at the protest won't be possible after that. The intake for the new water plant is something like 60-70 miles away in another body of water.
"Between 2009 and 2016 they (Standing Rock Tribe)received nearly $40 million dollars in grants - outright gifts from the federal government and the good people of the United States - grants that provided that the tribe could build their very own new high-tech water system to replace an old, unreliable and failing system and provide a reliable and safe source of water to the tribe and reservation.
The tribe built this new water system - starting with $29.2 million in grants in 2009 and finishing later this year after another appx $7 million in grants.
This new water system includes a new high-tech, filtered, deep water intake in Lake Oahe near Mobridge SOUTH Dakota and the nearby new 5 million gallon per day water treatment plant, along with a new 5 million gallon water storage reservoir at Kline Butte and new water pipelines to connect them all."
"Between 2009 and 2016 they (Standing Rock Tribe)received nearly $40 million dollars in grants - outright gifts from the federal government and the good people of the United States - grants that provided that the tribe could build their very own new high-tech water system to replace an old, unreliable and failing system and provide a reliable and safe source of water to the tribe and reservation.
The tribe built this new water system - starting with $29.2 million in grants in 2009 and finishing later this year after another appx $7 million in grants.
This new water system includes a new high-tech, filtered, deep water intake in Lake Oahe near Mobridge SOUTH Dakota and the nearby new 5 million gallon per day water treatment plant, along with a new 5 million gallon water storage reservoir at Kline Butte and new water pipelines to connect them all."
FYI, In Texas at least, almost all of your electrical providers (both the generators and the t&d guys) and your telephone services are also private companies (as in for-profit corporations, not government entities - most are publicly traded and not privately held).
Common carrier just means that the pipeline is not held exclusively for the use of a single entity. Other entities can contract and use the pipeline.
Common carrier just means that the pipeline is not held exclusively for the use of a single entity. Other entities can contract and use the pipeline.
Thanks for the explanation, that makes a little more sense. I could see using eminent domain if there actually was a demand for transporting a lot of different materials via this pipeline for the benefit of Americans. However, if it wasn't for the production areas in North Dakota, I can't imagine anyone would care about building this pipeline.hurricanejake02 said:
FYI, In Texas at least, almost all of your electrical providers (both the generators and the t&d guys) and your telephone services are also private companies (as in for-profit corporations, not government entities - most are publicly traded and not privately held).
Common carrier just means that the pipeline is not held exclusively for the use of a single entity. Other entities can contract and use the pipeline.
hurricanejake02 said:
FYI, In Texas at least, almost all of your electrical providers (both the generators and the t&d guys) and your telephone services are also private companies (as in for-profit corporations, not government entities - most are publicly traded and not privately held).
Common carrier just means that the pipeline is not held exclusively for the use of a single entity. Other entities can contract and use the pipeline.
And, that FERC has oversight on their carriage rates and a myriad of other factors.
dustin999 said:Thanks for the explanation, that makes a little more sense. I could see using eminent domain if there actually was a demand for transporting a lot of different materials via this pipeline for the benefit of Americans. However, if it wasn't for the production areas in North Dakota, I can't imagine anyone would care about building this pipeline.hurricanejake02 said:
FYI, In Texas at least, almost all of your electrical providers (both the generators and the t&d guys) and your telephone services are also private companies (as in for-profit corporations, not government entities - most are publicly traded and not privately held).
Common carrier just means that the pipeline is not held exclusively for the use of a single entity. Other entities can contract and use the pipeline.
Common carrier isn't limited to products; it could be users as well. For example, you could have Production Companies X, Y, and Z wanting to get their product to Refinery A. Enter the pipeline company, who agrees to transport a certain amount of product at a specified rate.
It's been a long legal/regulatory fight (pipeline, duh.) It's only news cuz a federal court ruled in favor of the pipeline company's actions & regulatory filings giving them the green light to proceed. Now the enviros are out of legal options, so they have to rally their last line of defense - keyboard commandos. What should be shocking (but no one seems to care about) is that even after the courts gave a green light, the Administration overtly asked the company to hold off/reconsider options. They should get on board, or at the very least get out of the way, but definitely NOT advocate against their own regulatory processes after the fact.
There's a lot of faux outrage from people (enviro's) who don't give a **** about this tribe. It is just a platform for them to fight big oil.
The non-governmental agencies are providing money and people to protest.
There was a 2 year permitting process, where were these people then?
The non-governmental agencies are providing money and people to protest.
There was a 2 year permitting process, where were these people then?
I thought it was 'just another thing' for native americans to get bent out of shape over since the white man and government has pretty much been f-ing them out of every last inch of soil and culture they ever had since whitey arrived. There is nothing trustworthy about a european, and I think that sentiment has soaked through a few generations of native americans to where now everything thats done by the white man is seen as a threat. I honestly didnt think there was a lot more to it.
They claim to care about the environment but some yahoos broke into a valve station and started operating valves in protest. They're extremely lucky things didn't go badly. Could have caused a huge environmental disaster.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/10/11/13243238/oil-pipelines-shutdown-safety-valves-standing-rock-sioux-solidarity?client=ms-android-htc-rev
I was surprised DAPL flew under the radar as long as possible after the keystone debacle.
If you want to get a little tin foil hatty - Warren Buffett owns the BNSF rail which moves a ton of crude, he stood to loose a lot of money if keystone got built. Obama did him a solid.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/10/11/13243238/oil-pipelines-shutdown-safety-valves-standing-rock-sioux-solidarity?client=ms-android-htc-rev
I was surprised DAPL flew under the radar as long as possible after the keystone debacle.
If you want to get a little tin foil hatty - Warren Buffett owns the BNSF rail which moves a ton of crude, he stood to loose a lot of money if keystone got built. Obama did him a solid.
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