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Can a private group block and shut down public roads in Texas?

4,471 Views | 13 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by 91AggieLawyer
eric76
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Can a private group block and shut down public roads in Texas?

The reason I ask is that it can apparently happen in Oklahoma. I wonder if they can do it in Texas, too.

It was in Lake Thunderbird State Park in Oklahoma. Some group called 12 Tribes rented a portion of the park for a few days and proceeded to block the roads to keep others out of "their area". There were, of course, other facilities in "their area" that should have remained open to everyone including trail heads for hikers.

One local went there to go hiking and drove around the roadblock. He was chased down and someone aimed a bow and arrow at him. Also, the gates were shut to keep him from escaping.

The state park people recommended charges against the guy with the bow and arrow and against the local hiker. In the end, no charges were filed.

From http://kfor.com/2016/10/14/dangerous-incident-at-lake-thunderbird-state-park/:
Quote:

"I thought, 'Who is this guy? Why is he stopping me? What is this about?'" said Fenwick. "I shrugged my shoulders and drove past him. Then a big black pickup came barreling toward me. (The truck) blocked the road in front of me. Then, I look over and this guy drew this bow and arrow and he pointed it at me. At that point I thought 'I'm getting out of here.'"

Fenwick says the group called themselves "12 Tribes" which is recognized by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a separatist hate group.

According to the Oklahoma Department of Tourism and Recreation the group rented out the entire south campgrounds.

...

According to the report, after Fenwick called for help, the renters told the investigator that Fenwick tried to "assault" their gate-keeper when he drove around that barricade.

The ranger requested criminal charges for both the group-member and for Fenwick.

"I'm the one who called 911," Fenwick said. "He didn't. If this guy was in some kind of danger why didn't he call 911?"

...

"They were the only ones that were camping in that area. So I believe they had worked with park staff to limit access to only their group," said Blair.

Oklahoma families should be aware that unlicensed, untrained, non-uniformed renters are allowed to police state parks in that way.


From http://www.stwnewspress.com/oklahoma/news/lake-thunderbird-hiker-shaken-after-alleged-kidnapping-no-charges-filed/article_0717e167-40f3-5b03-89a2-b6dec9a4a2f6.html:
Quote:

An unidentfied group believed to be a local branch of the black supremacist wing of the Hebrew Israelite movement, identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group, paid the Oklahoma Department of Tourism $9,040 to lease Turkey Pass, Critter Alley and Clear Bay Point campgrounds at Lake Thunderbird Sept. 15 through Sept. 20. The large area included in the lease limited public access to trail heads and other amenities traditionally popular with area hikers.

Facebook chatter and local media reports indicate the group had unfriendly encounters with several locals, including an incident on Sept. 20 involving Norman resident Ben Fenwick who called 911 and waited over 45 minutes for a park ranger to arrive.

Fenwick said he was held against his will and threatened with a bow and arrow.

...

Whe he arrived he saw a plastic divider in the road but no sign. As he approached the divider, a man came walking out and told him the entire area was leased and that Fenwick could not enter. The area includes public hiking trails which can be accessed from other parts of the lake, so Fenwick didn't believe the access was legally limited. The man was wearing a T-shirt that said either "12 Tribes" or "12 Nations," Fenwick said.

"I thought the guy was weird," Fenwick said. "He didn't have an official badge or anything."

Fenwick said he felt uncomfortable and drove past the plastic barrier down to Clear Bay Point to get away from the man. There were a lot of people in that area, so he decided he would skip his walk and go home.

Fenwick said as he was leaving, a man in a dark pickup came "barreling at him." Another man drew a bow and arrow and pointed it at him. At that point, Fenwick tried to drive out, but they had shut the gates.

"They held me there and didn't let me leave, and that's when I called 911," Fenwick said. He stayed on the phone with the 911 operator until the sheriff's deputies arrived. She told him the 12 Tribes group had not called 911.

"Those guys had blocked my access to leave the lake and were holding me," Fenwick said. "They didn't call 911, so what were they going to do?"
This story also mentions some other people who had problems when encountering the group.

There's also a follow up at http://newsok.com/article/5523140.

So can this happen in Texas? If I were to go to a state park and it turns out that some group had rented out the campsites in a part of the park, could they block the road to keep everyone else away?

I fail to see how renting campsites can give one control over other facilities in the park nearby.
schmellba99
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Not without a permit from the governing authority.

Unless, of course, you are Q-Tip in Houston with your BLM protest group out avenging some perceived wrongful death somewhere in the country you have never been over a person you have never met.
Ornlu
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Yes, private groups can lease public property in Texas. The public agency has to approve it, but they can approve any conditions they want.

Example: marathons. They're on public streets, but the marathon organizer pays a fee to the city and the city closes the streets. The fee can be whatever the city and organizer agree to.

I'm sure if you wanted to lease an entire state park in Texas, TPWD would charge you an exorbitant fee, but then you could have exclusive rights to access for that window. I'd bet that for $100M, you can have Garner SP all to yourself for a day or two.

eric76
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I don't like the idea of a private group denying access to public facilities like that. At the very least, I would think they should have to pay for an officer handle the road block instead of just putting their own barricade up. How can the public even know if the barricade is at all legal?
JSKolache
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OC in state parks. In Texas anyway...
BusterAg
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How much for the state's beaches for a day?
Aggies Revenge
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In the state of Oklahoma it is illegal for them to block public access unless permits/arrangements have been made with local gov't.

Having worked with Lake T-Bird Rangers in the past, (and Cleveland County DA)it is not surprising this got bungled.
Aggietaco
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I rent public right of way for my exclusive use often as a part of my job. It's costly and necessary.
Terk
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BusterAg said:

How much for the state's beaches for a day?


THIS!!
FrontPorchAg
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eric76 said:

Can a private group block and shut down public roads in Texas?

The reason I ask is that it can apparently happen in Oklahoma. I wonder if they can do it in Texas, too.

It was in Lake Thunderbird State Park in Oklahoma. Some group called 12 Tribes rented a portion of the park for a few days and proceeded to block the roads to keep others out of "their area". There were, of course, other facilities in "their area" that should have remained open to everyone including trail heads for hikers.

One local went there to go hiking and drove around the roadblock. He was chased down and someone aimed a bow and arrow at him. Also, the gates were shut to keep him from escaping.

The state park people recommended charges against the guy with the bow and arrow and against the local hiker. In the end, no charges were filed.

From http://kfor.com/2016/10/14/dangerous-incident-at-lake-thunderbird-state-park/:
Quote:

"I thought, 'Who is this guy? Why is he stopping me? What is this about?'" said Fenwick. "I shrugged my shoulders and drove past him. Then a big black pickup came barreling toward me. (The truck) blocked the road in front of me. Then, I look over and this guy drew this bow and arrow and he pointed it at me. At that point I thought 'I'm getting out of here.'"

Fenwick says the group called themselves "12 Tribes" which is recognized by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a separatist hate group.

According to the Oklahoma Department of Tourism and Recreation the group rented out the entire south campgrounds.

...

According to the report, after Fenwick called for help, the renters told the investigator that Fenwick tried to "assault" their gate-keeper when he drove around that barricade.

The ranger requested criminal charges for both the group-member and for Fenwick.

"I'm the one who called 911," Fenwick said. "He didn't. If this guy was in some kind of danger why didn't he call 911?"

...

"They were the only ones that were camping in that area. So I believe they had worked with park staff to limit access to only their group," said Blair.

Oklahoma families should be aware that unlicensed, untrained, non-uniformed renters are allowed to police state parks in that way.


From http://www.stwnewspress.com/oklahoma/news/lake-thunderbird-hiker-shaken-after-alleged-kidnapping-no-charges-filed/article_0717e167-40f3-5b03-89a2-b6dec9a4a2f6.html:
Quote:

An unidentfied group believed to be a local branch of the black supremacist wing of the Hebrew Israelite movement, identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group, paid the Oklahoma Department of Tourism $9,040 to lease Turkey Pass, Critter Alley and Clear Bay Point campgrounds at Lake Thunderbird Sept. 15 through Sept. 20. The large area included in the lease limited public access to trail heads and other amenities traditionally popular with area hikers.

Facebook chatter and local media reports indicate the group had unfriendly encounters with several locals, including an incident on Sept. 20 involving Norman resident Ben Fenwick who called 911 and waited over 45 minutes for a park ranger to arrive.

Fenwick said he was held against his will and threatened with a bow and arrow.

...

Whe he arrived he saw a plastic divider in the road but no sign. As he approached the divider, a man came walking out and told him the entire area was leased and that Fenwick could not enter. The area includes public hiking trails which can be accessed from other parts of the lake, so Fenwick didn't believe the access was legally limited. The man was wearing a T-shirt that said either "12 Tribes" or "12 Nations," Fenwick said.

"I thought the guy was weird," Fenwick said. "He didn't have an official badge or anything."

Fenwick said he felt uncomfortable and drove past the plastic barrier down to Clear Bay Point to get away from the man. There were a lot of people in that area, so he decided he would skip his walk and go home.

Fenwick said as he was leaving, a man in a dark pickup came "barreling at him." Another man drew a bow and arrow and pointed it at him. At that point, Fenwick tried to drive out, but they had shut the gates.

"They held me there and didn't let me leave, and that's when I called 911," Fenwick said. He stayed on the phone with the 911 operator until the sheriff's deputies arrived. She told him the 12 Tribes group had not called 911.

"Those guys had blocked my access to leave the lake and were holding me," Fenwick said. "They didn't call 911, so what were they going to do?"
This story also mentions some other people who had problems when encountering the group.

There's also a follow up at http://newsok.com/article/5523140.

So can this happen in Texas? If I were to go to a state park and it turns out that some group had rented out the campsites in a part of the park, could they block the road to keep everyone else away?

I fail to see how renting campsites can give one control over other facilities in the park nearby.
I fail to see how holding a guy against his will with threat of a deadly weapon isn't kidnapping.
Thriller
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Quote:

a local branch of the black supremacist wing of the Hebrew Israelite movement

This part hurts my head.
eric76
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Thriller said:

Quote:

a local branch of the black supremacist wing of the Hebrew Israelite movement

This part hurts my head.
Mine, too, but it is apparently real.

From https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2008/racist-black-hebrew-israelites-becoming-more-militant:
Quote:

Behind that locked door is the Baltimore branch of the Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ, a black supremacist sect headquartered in New York City. Obsessed with hatred for whites and Jews, the leaders of the Israelite Church have managed to build up 29 church branches in recent years.

...

Around the country, thousands of men and women have joined black supremacist groups on the extremist fringe of the Hebrew Israelite movement, a black nationalist theology that dates back to the 19th century. Its doctrine asserts that African Americans are God's true chosen people because they, not the people known to the world today as Jews, are the real descendants of the Hebrews of the Bible. Although most Hebrew Israelites are neither explicitly racist nor anti-Semitic and do not advocate violence, there is a rising extremist sector within the Hebrew Israelite movement whose adherents believe that Jews are devilish impostors and who openly condemn whites as evil personified, deserving only death or slavery.

The notorious white supremacist leader Tom Metzger once remarked of extremist Hebrew Israelites, "They're the black counterparts of us." The belief system of extremist Hebrew Israelites is basically the reversed-color mirror image of the Christian Identity theology embraced by many white supremacists, which holds that mainstream Jews are the descendants of Satan and that white people are the chosen ones, divinely endowed by God with superior status over "mud people," believers' term for non-white individuals.

...

One recently circulated Israelite School video, which has been viewed more than 26,000 times, shows a group of robed street preachers harassing a white woman until she bursts into tears. Another shows the preachers applauding as a white man kneels down to kiss the boots of "the prophets of God" while begging forgiveness for the sins of his race.

In yet another video, a preacher of the Israelite School, a man who identifies himself as General Mayakaahla Ka, offers this stark prediction for the future of the white race: "Every white person who doesn't get killed by Christ when he returns is going into

...

Extremist Hebrew Israelites have a long, strange list of enemies. At the top of the list are white people, who they preach are descended from a race of red, hairy beings, known as Edomites, who were spawned by Esau, the twin brother of Jacob (later known as Israel) in the Old Testament. Equally hated are "fraudulent" Jews, "the synagogue of Satan." They're closely followed in no particular order by Asians, promiscuous black women, abortionists, continental Africans (who, according to the extremist Israelites, sold the lost tribes of Israel, who were black, to European slave traders), and gay people, who according to extremist Israelites should all be put to death. (In December 2006, three gay men who were assaulted inside an Atlanta nightclub identified their attackers as Hebrew Israelites; no arrests were made).

Recruiting literature describing the extremist Israelite doctrine is just as harsh as the street preachers' angry rhetoric. "Does the Bible teach unity of races? NO!" reads one of the Israelite Church's widely distributed fliers. "Will the different nations who believe in Jesus be saved from the Lord's wrath? NO! Was Jesus Christ a Caucasian man? NO! Does his color matter? YES!"
eric76
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Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelite_Church_of_God_in_Jesus_Christ:
Quote:

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, the group's enemies include white people, "who they preach are descended from a race of red, hairy beings, known as Edomites, who were spawned by Esau, the twin brother of Jacob" (later known as Israel) in the Old Testament. "Equally hated" are "fraudulent" Jews (i.e., the people known to the world today as Jews), "the synagogue of Satan," Asians, promiscuous black women, abortionists, continental Africans (who, according to ICGJC and other extremist Israelites, "sold the lost tribes of Israel, who were black, to European slave traders"), and gay people, who "according to extremist Israelites should all be put to death".
jaseev
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Well group of people shut down the I-40 bridge that connects Arkansas to Tennessee over the Mississippi river not to long ago without any consequences.
91AggieLawyer
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Quote:

Example: marathons.

This is true, but there are SERIOUS time limitations on this -- like 6 to maybe as many as 8 hours, almost always on the weekends (usually Sundays), and they require paid police presence. This is one thing the City of Irving is trying to use to market Campion trail as a race venue -- no street closures and little, if any, security needed.

Not to mention the notice given for marathons. Everyone in the area knows about it months ahead of time. Years in the case of some marathons like White Rock in Dallas (or whatever its now called).
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