Guadalupe River and can be accessed from the ROW of a state highway. I agree the landowner should be able to fence this for the purposes of retaining livestock, but are these signs legitimate? This is all I have found online to this point.

Call game warden and sheriff's office with the exact location. They will tell you if they will give you a ticket or not. Lots of ambiguity in TX regs and I doubt you have the time or need the trouble to push the issue.

I'm guessing this in up on North or South Fork? It's kind of unclear what counts as a Navigable Waterway and open to public use. The section here on the North and South Forksays flow is not sufficient for recreational use but I don't think this has any legal bearing. Can't find any outline to say what parts of the Guadalupe are navigable or noh.

http://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/nonpwdpubs/water_issues/rivers/navigation/riddell/index.phtml

This was all I've found so far... Looks like it's part of the link posted above.

No.

http://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/nonpwdpubs/water_issues/rivers/navigation/kennedy/kennedy_faq.phtml

And for those who question as to whether the Guadalupe River is 'navigable';

In a case involving the North and South Forks of the Guadalupe River, a question was raised because the streams were measured to be less than 30 feet wide for short reaches just above their mouths before they became substantially wider farther upstream. The court stated:

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Several witnesses testified as to the width of the river and the general import of their testimony is that the width of the river substantially exceeds thirty feet. Appellants' main complaint is with the method of measurement used. The statute provides no precise method of measurement for determining if a stream maintains an average width of thirty feet from the mouth up. We have found no case which absolutely mandates any certain method be used. We have concluded that the testimony in the record sufficiently supports the trial court's finding as to navigability.
Adjudication of Upper Guadalupe Segment of Guadalupe River Basin, 625 S.W.2d 353, 362 3 (Tex.Civ.App. San Antonio 1981), aff'd, 642 S.W.2d 438 (1982).

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I grew up on the Guadalupe, and back in the day a lot of ranchers had shallow areas of the river that required fencing to restrain livestock. It was common practice to leave enough bottom space at normal flow for swimmers and canoes to slip under, and I never saw a posted sign within the banks of stream bed.

Contact your local game warden.

I've contacted the local office and am awaiting a call back from the Game Warden. It's really unfortunate that there are so many grey areas. It would make no sense that you can launch from dozens of crossings in this area, but this one is off limits.

Interested to see what warden says.

I feel lucky to live in the Hill Country because it's so nice here, but I'm not sure I've ever paddled a more beautiful, secluded stretch of the Guadalupe. I had an Osprey fly right over me and an Auodad standing 25 feet above me on the cliff ledge. And I caught 12 good fish in 2 hours, so I kinda want to go back. Hence, then reason I'm asking

That's my thought too. That's why it didn't stop me yesterday, but a citation from a local LEO that doesn't know or care what the word of the law says is the last thing I want to deal with, so I wanted to run it by the great minds of the OB. I'll post back here, if and when the warden returns my call.

Land owner does not own the water in a state water way. Nor does he own the dirt under the water. Standing on the bank like you did to take that pic, Illegal. Unless your lawyer can argue the mean water line in your favor.

The only authority u have to recogjize in that situation,if u are actually in the water, is the ahole land owners shotgun in your grill.

Was in that situation as a youngin with a fly pole in hand. Dad took acception to having a gun pulled on his kid. Learned a bit about that situation.

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Standing on the bank like you did to take that pic, Illegal. Unless your lawyer can argue the mean water line in your favor.

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Was standing on the gabion that you see in the pic, which I believe to be state property in a public r-o-w, but I know what you're getting at.

. There are also situations where deeds did and still do cross state waters.

Is this only in play if the land owner ownes both sides of the water way?

I think that was addressed by the Small Bill if I read that article correctly. This is actually something I'm reading up on some since I just got a kayak and will look for places to paddle soon.

And someone seriously pulled a gun on you and your dad back in the day? WTH is wrong with people? Not a good situation to be in on a river not just a long way from the sheriff, but likely way off a road!!! Glad that resolved well!!

What county is this in?

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Land owner does not own the water in a state water way. Nor does he own the dirt under the water. Standing on the bank like you did to take that pic, Illegal. Unless your lawyer can argue the mean water line in your favor.

The only authority u have to recogjize in that situation,if u are actually in the water, is the ahole land owners shotgun in your grill.

Was in that situation as a youngin with a fly pole in hand. Dad took acception to having a gun pulled on his kid. Learned a bit about that situation.

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This is the biggest gray area in Texas law. I personally know somebody that owns a decent amount of land on the Lampassas River who's deed clearly shows that they own the land to the middle of the riverbed, and they have several decades of tax receipts showing that they are obligated to pay taxes on that land.

Unfortunately Texas law on this matter is about as clear as any Louisiana law ever written.

I always enjoy these threads

Ive always treated it as if I was in the water its good to go, got weird looks in Jr High when my buddies and I went hiking down a stretch of the San Gabriel behind a nice neighborhood with river front houses. We just waved and kept walking when people looked over or came towards us

Kerr

edit: not sure why i clicked that emoticon

I grew up on the Guadalupe river, and San Marcos river. Only time I have ever been confronted by landowners in a bad way was going up tributaries and getting out onto land, just did not know any better as a kid "usually taking a dump in the brush" And along River Road in NB, every landowner there hates people trashing their property and I see why they get so mad. On one over night trip down the Guadalupe we had a landowner flag us down and tell us where the good places to camp were at and make sure we had food and water...there are a lot of great folks that live along the stretches of water and some bad ones...the bad ones usually have a pretty good reason to be cautious of folks by their property...if you are fishing and moving along they don't care. There is just so much theft nowadays.

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Kerr

edit: not sure why i clicked that emoticon

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Ok. I have a good GW contact for Comal Co in the event it was that stretch of the Guad. Let me know if you never hear back from the Kerr Co GW. I can ask some questions with my contact.

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Ownership of the riverbed in title gives you rights to seek permits for modification, but does not convey a right to block public passage on the water or for portage if the stream is navigable by statute or in fact, both of which are recognized by the state. It is still up to the person passing through to respect the property rights of the landowner and stay on the water as much as is possible.

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You still have to go through ACE for any waterway of the US for any streambed, tributary, etc. modification that would alter the flow of the river in any shape or fashion. And good luck with that mess. Few things in life will make you have government bureaucracy more than wading through the ins and outs of the 48 different .gov entities that have to review a 404 permit.

There is just a lot of ambiguity between Texas law, US law, common law, Spanish land grant deeds, etc. that the courts simply have no desire to really try to clean up. It would be messy and no matter what, a lot of people would walk away pissed if that were to happen. So it's easier to just not mess with it and leave a monster gray area up for debate and discussion without any real answers.

Not trying to hijack, but is there public access to the Guadalupe on I-10 around Comfort? Was thinking about wading in there if there is access.

Anywhere a public road crosses will be a public ROW easement.

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Anywhere a public road crosses will be a public ROW easement.

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Don't know why I just didn't look at this earlier

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15. The Guadlupe runs beneath I-10 here, just southeast of Comfort, Tx. Exit the highway on the southeast side and drive down the dirt road. Proceeding straight down the dirt road, the river crosses under the I-10 bridge. The water under the bridge is deep and the current is too fast for fishing from float tubes or canoes.
The best alternative is to turn left about 1/2 the way down the dirt road. The river in this area is not as deep as it is under the bridge and allows some wading further away from the noise of I-10.
Overall, this portion of the river is heavily used, and therefore trashed up by those who seek convenient access to the river. That, and the roar from the bridge makes this area one to avoid.

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http://www.texasflyfishing.com/rivers/guadalupe.htm

Yes, i was 15. It was on Dove Creek. I spend most of my childhood in that river bottom with a bowie knife and a fly pole. Was by myself in a lampro nudged into the bank tieing a deer hair popper on. Never forget it.

Turns out the guy was a no good hermit drunk who lived in a Trailer. Sherrif payed him a number of visits from what we found out.

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Take a can of orange spray paint write PUBLIC on both sides of that sign, cut a hole in the fence every 15 yards, spread 100 pounds of roofing tacks down their entrance road, find somewhere else to paddle and never go back. Hell I feel better about the situation already.

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This post and the folks who gave it blue stars...

Seems like the landowner should be getting the fine, if he's stringing up fence and signage, making up his own laws.

If the GW tells you that you're good to go, shouldn't he also be calling the landowner and tell him to get his illegal fence out of the way?