Anyone with experience on long water lines from the meter? Looking to put a new meter in for a place off the road. Water is along the road. They'll put the new meter in a few feet off the road. We would need to run our own water line the rest of the way.

1. How is it the water company never seems to have issues with roots? In another house, we've had roots get into the water line from the meter twice in recent years, and it's a short line. If I run a new longer water line, can I pay for better pipes or something and go several years without root problems?

2. The part of land that is cleared from the road is on a slightly lower elevation than the clearing for the building. So, if I run my new line along the cleared land, then go uphill, will I still have good water pressure? Alternatively, I can clear space for the new line on top of the hill, but it would be through the woods and it makes me worried about roots (see question 1).

Thanks.

Yes, I've got experience. How long is long?

Short answers:
City/County doesn't have root problems because their pipes are 4+ feet below ground and roots don't normally grow that deep.
If the hill is less than 20' tall, don't worry about it.

You can run HDPE pipe that is fusion welded together. What type of pipe are you using that I having root issues? My guess would be gasketed pipe with the roots growing through the bell. I have run miles of gasketed, HDPE and solvent weld and never had a problem but the gasketed was all 3" and up.

We're talking a quarter mile. Yes, the root issues were in older PVC pipe junctions. Last time the plumber just ran a new line to that house with some new fangled pipe that rolls up and is more flexible. Even so, he had to connect it to another length, but hopefully that'll last longer before roots get in.

And there's at least 20 feet difference in elevation, maybe more.

With the elevation, you'll lose .5psi per vertical foot.

Someone will come along and tell you the minimum diameter you need to protect from friction losses.

Thanks. So, a 20 foot elevation means a 10 psi drop. More if my eyeball of the elevation is off. Looks like we go through the woods a quarter mile and hope the roots don't get through.

Elevation 20 or 25 feet by my estimate if I go the currently cleared route. Meter is 5/8 inch I think. Starting pressure, don't quote me but I'm pretty sure it's in the mid 40s psi. Of course I want the max pressure I can get at the building. One story.

Be sure to dial 811

Reference your old construction drawings if able and check your elevations. It'll be cheaper than the surveyor the plumber might hire.

I don't have my charts in front of me, but if you have a 5/8" meter with 40-45 psi & 1/4 mile run, you're going to be dribbling out the other end without a booster pump. Not going to matter if you're uphill or down, you're going to lose too much pressure based on distance alone.

Little Giant makes an inline booster pump that's only a few hundred dollars & a cinch to set up.
For the pipe to the house, I'd run 1" Pex pipe, you can get those in 300' roles to minimize the # of joints you'll have.

Note: I'm not a plumber (just an irrigator with 19 years experience and a gazillion miles of pipe installed) - check your local regs. I don't think you can use PVC pipe for potable water to the house anymore.... all the local guys I know use Pex.

Thanks. I'm no plumber, but Pex sounds like what was put in last time. Appreciate the advice on a booster pump. This is the sort of info I'm looking for.

The 5/8" meter shouldn't make a lot of difference if it's a short run at 5/8" as most meters are. For the 1/4 mile or 1320' of line, I would use 2" potable water rated poly as it's cheap, easy to lay, durable, and flexible. With no elevation change, at a flow rate of 10 gallons/minute, you'll lose 33.5 psi to friction pressure over a 1320' run in plastic (poly/pvc/pex) pipe. With 2" plastic pipe and all other variables the same, you'll lose 3 psi. Subtract .433 psi per foot of positive elevation change.

If you're starting at 45 psi, your hydro-static pressure change going up 25' in elevation will be 10.825 psi netting you a little over 34 psi static at the house. With a 10 gpm draw at the house and 1/4 mile of 1" line you'll have almost no pressure remaining. With 1/4 mile of 2" line, you'll have ~31 psi at the house with a 10 gpm draw. I would spend money on bigger line over a booster pump as bigger line is more reliable.

Edit: Here's an easy friction loss calculator to plug different line sizes and types into. For any plastic line, just use PVC as the friction coefficient differences should be negligible. http://www.freecalc.com/fricfram.htm

TexAgs.... We know stuff.

Ok, thanks. I may have the option for a better meter. They offer a 1 inch meter, although I'm not sure they'd give it to me. But, it would provide 70 gal/min vs. 20 gal/min, and come with a higher monthly fee. They say it's for larger lots with heavy irrigation needs.

But, with a quarter mile run to the building, the larger meter would make sense, right?

If I remember from your posts over in the Aggieland board, you're in Brazos County, right? So is this Wellborn, Wickson, or BTU?

We see starting pressures closer to 55psi for Wellborn, 60psi for Wickson, and 90psi for BTU.

At 10 gpm you will lose .41 psi through a 5/8" meter if it was 1 foot long. The meter (5/8" restriction) is likely less than a foot long so it probably won't even cause a .41 psi drop. At 20 gpm through the same meter, you'll lose 1.58 psi.

At 10 gpm you will lose .03 psi through a 1" meter if it was 1 foot long. 20 gpm through same would net you a .11 psi drop.

Do you know what your flow rate needs are? For a house, 10 gpm is typical. For irrigation, the sky is the limit. You really don't need the bigger meter unless your flow rate is significantly higher than 10 gpm.

This is for a building in Brazos on the Bryan side. I worked with a plumber on a rural property and he gave me the 45 psi figure when doing some work on an older house that had root issues. Sorry I don't have better info than that.

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At 10 gpm you will lose .41 psi through a 5/8" meter if it was 1 foot long. The meter (5/8" restriction) is likely less than a foot long so it probably won't even cause a .41 psi drop. At 20 gpm through the same meter, you'll lose 1.58 psi.

At 10 gpm you will lose .03 psi through a 1" meter if it was 1 foot long. 20 gpm through same would net you a .11 psi drop.

Do you know what your flow rate needs are? For a house, 10 gpm is typical. For irrigation, the sky is the limit. You really don't need the bigger meter unless your flow rate is significantly higher than 10 gpm.

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So, help me out on a standard meter. If I've got a long run to the building of a quarter mile, am I okay with the 5/8 meter? The building would never use more than a small family, and probably never even that.

Correct. The 5/8 meter is small enough that it only creates a volume restriction. The pressure drop will be fairly minimal as long as it's following into a larger diameter line.

I really like the suggestion for the 2" line made earlier. I want to say my father and I used 1.5" line when we laid 350' to their rural(ish) home.

Your 2" poly figures look correct at a glance. Can't argue that it would work.

However, 2" poly is what... 3x as expensive as 1"?
Roughly .30/ft. vs. $1.00 if I remember. Plus the fittings will be more expensive.

You'll save at least $1,000.00 in the short term by doing 1" pipe. Then you can drop $300 or so on a booster.
Save $700.00 and have a shower that'll peel paint!

What TxAG20 is saying is that the meter size doesn't have to control the pipe size between the meter and the house. You can use the 5/8 meter, then add a coupler and valve which accept a 1.5" or 2" pipe to minize the friction losses in the long run. Go back down to 1" when it enters the house.

If you'd like to guess at the flow rate you need, figure 2 gpm per fixture (sink, washing machine, shower, etc). plus 10 gpm for irrigation (if the lawn is roughly a 0.25 acre). You might even just say 20gpm and move on.

One of your original questions was to avoid root penetration - you'll need to either bury at least a foot below any root zone or use a "seamless" supply pipe.

Last point: You need to find out who is supplying the water. BTU services the area generally north of university drive and west of highway 6; Wickson Creek Special Utility District supplies the area generally east of highway 6. BTU has a much higher system pressure (often 90+ PSI) which we find pops fittings and breaks joints when the pipe is poorly installed.

I get that the 5/8" meter is a flow restriction only. The issue here is pressure, and even if you use a 2" line, the pressure will be 30 odd pounds by the time you get to the house... not good at all.

A larger 2" line from the meter to the building is far more important than the upsized meter unless you are already oushing the linits of the meters flow. If you don't want to worry about roots bury it 4' - 5' deep.

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What TxAG20 is saying is that the meter size doesn't have to control the pipe size between the meter and the house. You can use the 5/8 meter, then add a coupler and valve which accept a 1.5" or 2" pipe to minize the friction losses in the long run. Go back down to 1" when it enters the house.

If you'd like to guess at the flow rate you need, figure 2 gpm per fixture (sink, washing machine, shower, etc). plus 10 gpm for irrigation (if the lawn is roughly a 0.25 acre). You might even just say 20gpm and move on.

One of your original questions was to avoid root penetration - you'll need to either bury at least a foot below any root zone or use a "seamless" supply pipe.

Last point: You need to find out who is supplying the water. BTU services the area generally north of university drive and west of highway 6; Wickson Creek Special Utility District supplies the area generally east of highway 6. BTU has a much higher system pressure (often 90+ PSI) which we find pops fittings and breaks joints when the pipe is poorly installed.

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Thanks. What kind of seamless supply pipe are we talking about?

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A larger 2" line from the meter to the building is far more important than the upsized meter unless you are already oushing the linits of the meters flow. If you don't want to worry about roots bury it 4' - 5' deep.

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So, trenching 5 feet deep, can I presume this will probably kill the nearby oak trees?

Try to stay outside the drilplineof any tree you are trenching near.

I'm just going to say it again: a 2" water line will cost more and provide you with crappy water pressure. Booster pump + 1" pipe= winning.

The downfall of a booster pump is that they can freeze in winter and bust. There is one on a property I'm selling. I'm not a fan.

Don't scrimp on the installation whatever you do. I helped lay a half mile of 2" pvc line as a kid, but can't count the number of times we have had to fix it over 20+ years in black clay. Too bad Texags wasn't around then to tell us how to do it right.

Could you share more about the fixes you had to do?