I'm looking at a 1944 Winchester M-1Garand that is marked RRAD for Red River Army Depot back in the 60s. Serial number is 2.4M and trigger, bolt, and safety match correct serial numbers for 1944. How much is too much to pay on this?

Here is a picture.

What's the backstory? Sold through the DCM/CMP? What are the muzzle wear and throat erosion readings?

What Log said. Being a rebuild, barring a miracle, it won't be correct but it still looks like a nice rifle. The more pics and info you can give the closer to a good value you'll get. Look at the barrel markings and the op rod, those are things you can see without taking it apart. Also, any other stock cartouches. Most RRAD rebuilds I've seen have SA barrels on them and make really good shooters.

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What are the muzzle wear and throat erosion readings?

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OP, these readings should be on that small, tan colored paper tag that's directly under the camo in your pic. Really need them to determine value.

Lucky.. I work at RRAD and have been looking for an M1 that was rebuilt out here.

As far as the history, it's from an antique store in Alvin, don't know much else other than he found it at the Houston Gun Collector's Association show many years ago. The other stamp on it was a P. There were know readings of any wear and it has never been professionally graded to the antique store's knowledge. Below are some more pics. I took it home but can return it within a time period. Below are more pics, thanks for the help. Below is more info and pictures.

Serial #: 2400393, Trigger: C46025 WRA, Bolt D28287 WRA, Safety: WRA. The hammer is supposed to be WRA as well. Not sure about the operating rod. I don't know a lot about these but trying to learn fast. The barrel has a W marking on it so I think it's Winchester as well. Looking down the barrel with a flashlight, it had no corrosion and looked very clean All that I can tell so far is the upper and front guard stock is not original. IJones, is there anyway to tell what was done by serial number since you worked at RRAD?

Skip to about a minute in on this video. you should be able to disassemble to get the manufacturer of the hammer, safety, and op rod.

To answer your question about value, the gun could be worth A LOT more if you know that it came from the CMP and you have the muzzle wear and throat erosion readings from the CMP.

Any recommendations on where to take it now to get those readings?

Post about it here, and someone local might have the tools. A gunshop might as well, but you might want to call around first.

http://forums.thecmp.org/

Also, you can usually call the CMP and they will do a SN lookup to see if the rifle originally came from them.

What did you pay for it?

Thanks. I sent the CMP an email with the s/n. It was a lil north of 2k. I realize it's not a steal but hoping I didn't overpay. I've seen some severe mix and matches for a lot cheaper and I've seen these priced a lot more as well. If I hear back from CMP, I'll post the results.

Champion Firearms has a gauge, im sure you could get them to check it for you.

I've seen pics on some M1 threads where a 30.06 cartridge was dropped into the barrel end to see how far it goes. This gives an idea as to wear. Do this and post a pic and maybe someone with more M1 experience can give you an estimate. I've never measured mine but they came from CMP as Service Grades.

A poor man's method of estimating ME:



TE requires a much more specific gauge, but generally speaking it should be less than ME.

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As far as the history, it's from an antique store in Alvin, don't know much else other than he found it at the Houston Gun Collector's Association show many years ago. The other stamp on it was a P. There were know readings of any wear and it has never been professionally graded to the antique store's knowledge. Below are some more pics. I took it home but can return it within a time period. Below are more pics, thanks for the help. Below is more info and pictures.

Serial #: 2400393, Trigger: C46025 WRA, Bolt D28287 WRA, Safety: WRA. The hammer is supposed to be WRA as well. Not sure about the operating rod. I don't know a lot about these but trying to learn fast. The barrel has a W marking on it so I think it's Winchester as well. Looking down the barrel with a flashlight, it had corrosion and looked very clean All that I can tell so far is the upper and front guard stock is not original. IJones, is there anyway to tell what was done by serial number since you worked at RRAD?

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I have no idea. They stopped working on small arms in the early -mid 70's. That part of the Depot is abandoned, just old buildings in ruin. I know they did 1911's, M1's and the M1-A1. I had my hands on a 1911, but it was sold before I could get the money.

Check the CMP forum. There is a sticky I think about how to measure ME/TE on your own. That is a gorgeous Garand.

A shot of my Garand. I have looked at a fair number of them that have barrel damage from repeated use of highly corrosive primers/ammunition. When a group of us get together to shoot, the Garand is always a favorite:

This open sighted 1898 Springfield 30-40 Krag was my deer hunting rifle until about 10 years ago when my eyes started getting less than perfect:



And the heavy barreled FN FAL Belgian is such a sweet shooter in .308:

You have some fine lookin toys there sir.

No kidding...those are gorgeous!

Update. I contacted the CMP and they sent a letter saying that my serial number does not match their database. I did take it to a Gun Show and had one of the sellers look at it. He measured a 1.5 on TE and 1 on ME but thought the barrel was a fake and I am thinking he may be on to something. He thinks it's a fake barrel because the serial number on the barrel after you take off the guard is hand stamped, not roll stamped. See picture. Can anyone weigh in if this is a good indicator of a fake? I think I have a bad feeling and will try to get my money back. I don't mind a repro barrel but I don't want to pay the price of an authentic. He also thought the W mark by the operating rod was too low from the picture above.

1. It's either a RRAD rebuild, or just had that stock on it. Unless the receiver is electropenciled "RRAD x-64 (or 65 or 66, etc., x being the month) on the receiver leg, there's no way to prove it went through RRAD. I think one of mine is an RRAD, but I'll have to dig it out of the safe to confirm.
2. Lots of people try to restore rifles to matching condition with parts that are correct (determined by the drawining number) for the SN era of the rifle. Usually, a restored rifle is disclosed, and any repro parts are ID'd.
3. Repro parts usually contain some identifier to separate them from originals.
4. WRA was somewhat sloppy in their finishing, but the rifles worked. Lots of machine marks left on finished parts. That being said, I have seen a WRA barrel drawing number roll mark that is that sloppy before.
5. You need to post this up over on the CMP forums, even though the SN indicates it didn't originate through them. You'll have a definitive answer pretty quick on what is going on with that rifle.

ETA: Just checked, and I've got a 6-digit SA that I handpicked at the CMP North Store a few years ago. It is marked "RRAD 7-65" on the right receiver leg, and has a BA (Benicia Arsenal) stock. It was obviously rebuilt with parts on hand in July 1965, and I was the first person to do anything with it besides crate/re-crate it, since it was basically a newly built rifle when I bought it, albeit it with used, but in-spec parts. Complete mixmaster, with SA, IHC, and HRA parts.

Thanks. There is a real or repro thread on CMP I want to post on but have to wait for my new account to activate. What do you mean that the SN didn't originate? If it's not the correct SN but marked WRA, would that be a dead giveaway?

He also thought it was RRAD stock only. No markings on receiver for RRAD and small rust on inside. RRAD dipped parts in acid and rust should have been removed.

What you said the CMP told you. They didn't sell it. So is probably a re-import, most likely Blue Sky, ex-Korean M1's.

Out of curiosity, what are the drawing number markings above the right front receiver leg?

Send the picture to the guys at CMP and ask them. They will know for sure.

I will definitely send pics to the CMP forum as soon as it activates. Here are some more pics of what I have from the inside.