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Reading all the angst about poor Cecils death has me wondering though...reading some of his history, Cecil and his brother are directly responsible for the deaths of two other male lions. Why is no one upset about that? They squatted on property that wasn't theirs, killed the owner (and presumably his kids) and his own brother was killed in the fight. Double felony homocide, just for starters.

Cecil was a thug.

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#lionlivesmatter

What if they find ol Cecil's lopped off head wrapped up in a confederate battle flag?

Or better yet, some picture surfaces that shows Mr. Dentist posing with a confederate battle flag. Not only would Mr. Dentist be an awful poacher that murders innocent beautiful animals, he would be a RACIST awful poacher that murders innocent beautiful animals.

#lionlivesmatter

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As usual, Puryear Playboy is spot on and presenting logical thought in a thread.


And I couldn't care any less about what f-ing Jimmy Kimmel thinks about the story. Did that idiot really relate drugging and raping humans to illegally shooting a lion?

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No. He didn't. Go back and actually listen to what he said. He actually said that what Cosby did is worse. But by all means, let's keep deflecting and finding other people to be mad at or other reasons to pretend this was all on the up and up until more facts just keep rolling in proving what anyone who's honest with themselves knew as they read the original story.

quote:

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pretend this was all on the up and up until

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Why do you keep swinging at ghost???

I challenge you to find ONE person, much less a whole group of posters who said that on this thread. Everyone that I saw was just trying to be more factual and use less hyperbole.

quote:

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quote:

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As usual, Puryear Playboy is spot on and presenting logical thought in a thread.


And I couldn't care any less about what f-ing Jimmy Kimmel thinks about the story. Did that idiot really relate drugging and raping humans to illegally shooting a lion?

---

No. He didn't. Go back and actually listen to what he said. He actually said that what Cosby did is worse. But by all means, let's keep deflecting and finding other people to be mad at or other reasons to pretend this was all on the up and up until more facts just keep rolling in proving what anyone who's honest with themselves knew as they read the original story.

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Sorry. Honestly I didn't have time to watch the video yet. I was basing that off of this article.

And I am not defending this guy. I was defending the lack of details in the story yesterday morning, because I think it's ridiculous how people are immediately judged in these situations. It turns out this guy was wrong and should pay legally for what he did. I still think the public outrage and the level people want to ruin (or end) this guy's life over a lion in Africa is ridiculous, but we can agree to disagree on that.

You were right in this case about the guy and the overall story. Congrats. I still think you jumped to conclusions too quickly though.

quote:

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quote:

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pretend this was all on the up and up until

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Why do you keep swinging at ghost???

I challenge you to find ONE person, much less a whole group of posters who said that on this thread. Everyone that I saw was just trying to be more factual and use less hyperbole.

---

Why do you and others keep repeating this?!?! From the outset the reaction of many was to ridicule the story, ridicule the media, attempt to discredit them and their accuracy, etc. Now that the story has picked up steam and been verified, and proving what was pretty much obvious to anyone with common sense, it's being spun into "we were just playing devil's advocate" or "we just want more facts and less hyperbole". Bull****. Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining. These were all attempts to discredit the "bed wetting liberal hippies" and support/justify/reconcile the actions of the hunters.

quote:

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quote:

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quote:

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pretend this was all on the up and up until

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Why do you keep swinging at ghost???

I challenge you to find ONE person, much less a whole group of posters who said that on this thread. Everyone that I saw was just trying to be more factual and use less hyperbole.

---

Why do you and others keep repeating this?!?! From the outset the reaction of many was to ridicule the story, ridicule the media, attempt to discredit them and their accuracy, etc. Now that the story has picked up steam and been verified, and proving what was pretty much obvious to anyone with common sense, it's being spun into "we were just playing devil's advocate" or "we just want more facts and less hyperbole". Bull****. Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining. These were all attempts to discredit the "bed wetting liberal hippies" and support/justify/reconcile the actions of the hunters.

---

Ah hell, my comment was out of line. I don't want to stoop to that level.

Let's just say I don't agree with your approach.

First, I'll say that I don't support what this guy did and I haven't read this entire thread. Seems to be a repeat offender and is likely the worst example of what your typical hunter is like.

My problem is how society jumps to conclusions without all of the facts. This guy was crucified from day 1. A little while back a TPWD game warden was shot while out poaching. The public didn't know that he was poaching when he was shot. But people just assumed he was out doing what game wardens do. People donated to help pay for his medical expenses. Had folks waited around to hear that the guy was out breaking the laws he was supposed to be enforcing... I'm willing to bet the donation totals would have been a lot different.

I'm just saying... in this instance it now appears the reaction is somewhat justified... but I like to wait for the full story/give the benefit of the doubt before jumping to conclusions.

As an avid hunter of deer, hogs, quail, etc., the most frustrating thing about events like this is the damage that they do to hunting in general.

to the vast majority of the non-hunting public, shenanigans like this put the entire sport in a bad light. Most people can accept hunting for meat, but when it crosses over into pure trophy hunting to put a majestic predator's head on a wall, you lose the vast majority of an increasingly urbanized global population disengaged from the natural world.

and that urban majority makes the laws for all hunters, not just rich guys who like pelts and trophies on their walls.

that's why this story sucks, and why this dentist - with his Putin-esque photos of his manly self posing with every variety of predator he can put an arrow in, makes me sick. socially stigmatizing his ilk makes it less likely stunts like this happen again that threaten the rights of hunters everywhere. in my opinion, he's getting what he deserves.

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quote:

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As usual, Puryear Playboy is spot on and presenting logical thought in a thread.


And I couldn't care any less about what f-ing Jimmy Kimmel thinks about the story. Did that idiot really relate drugging and raping humans to illegally shooting a lion?

---

No. He didn't. Go back and actually listen to what he said. He actually said that what Cosby did is worse. But by all means, let's keep deflecting and finding other people to be mad at or other reasons to pretend this was all on the up and up until more facts just keep rolling in proving what anyone who's honest with themselves knew as they read the original story.

---

Sorry. Honestly I didn't have time to watch the video yet. I was basing that off of this article.

And I am not defending this guy. I was defending the lack of details in the story yesterday morning, because I think it's ridiculous how people are immediately judged in these situations. It turns out this guy was wrong and should pay legally for what he did. I still think the public outrage and the level people want to ruin (or end) this guy's life over a lion in Africa is ridiculous, but we can agree to disagree on that.

You were right in this case about the guy and the overall story. Congrats. I still think you jumped to conclusions too quickly though.

---

I don't disagree with you on that at all. I think the mob mentality witch hunt is equally disgusting. These guys need to be held accountable and justice needs to be served but within the confines of the law.

And no, I didn't jump to conclusions. Everything you needed to know that happened was right there in the original story. It took a bit of reading between the lines but it was obvious unless you just didn't want to see it....and I think that was the case with many on this thread.

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pretend this was all on the up and up until

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Why do you keep swinging at ghost???

I challenge you to find ONE person, much less a whole group of posters who said that on this thread. Everyone that I saw was just trying to be more factual and use less hyperbole.

---

Why do you and others keep repeating this?!?! From the outset the reaction of many was to ridicule the story, ridicule the media, attempt to discredit them and their accuracy, etc. Now that the story has picked up steam and been verified, and proving what was pretty much obvious to anyone with common sense, it's being spun into "we were just playing devil's advocate" or "we just want more facts and less hyperbole". Bull****. Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining. These were all attempts to discredit the "bed wetting liberal hippies" and support/justify/reconcile the actions of the hunters.

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It appears that you are either a liar or flat out illiterate.

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I'm neither as the evidence is in the thread for all to see. I suppose it's safe to assume that you're unable to adequately defend your position and have resorted to personal attacks as plan "B".

Wanted to add... Puryear Playboy is the man.

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quote:

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As usual, Puryear Playboy is spot on and presenting logical thought in a thread.


And I couldn't care any less about what f-ing Jimmy Kimmel thinks about the story. Did that idiot really relate drugging and raping humans to illegally shooting a lion?

---

No. He didn't. Go back and actually listen to what he said. He actually said that what Cosby did is worse. But by all means, let's keep deflecting and finding other people to be mad at or other reasons to pretend this was all on the up and up until more facts just keep rolling in proving what anyone who's honest with themselves knew as they read the original story.

---

Sorry. Honestly I didn't have time to watch the video yet. I was basing that off of this article.

And I am not defending this guy. I was defending the lack of details in the story yesterday morning, because I think it's ridiculous how people are immediately judged in these situations. It turns out this guy was wrong and should pay legally for what he did. I still think the public outrage and the level people want to ruin (or end) this guy's life over a lion in Africa is ridiculous, but we can agree to disagree on that.

You were right in this case about the guy and the overall story. Congrats. I still think you jumped to conclusions too quickly though.

---

I don't disagree with you on that at all. I think the mob mentality witch hunt is equally disgusting. These guys need to be held accountable and justice needs to be served but within the confines of the law.

And no, I didn't jump to conclusions. Everything you needed to know that happened was right there in the original story. It took a bit of reading between the lines but it was obvious unless you just didn't want to see it....and I think that was the case with many on this thread.

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Oh come on... That original story was full of "allegedly" and "reportedly" and "appears to have". Nothing in that was concrete. It even originally said the lion was "believed" to be Cecil, not confirmation it was. And before you click the link to prove me wrong, the entire link has been updated with all kinds of additional information, pictures, etc.

quote:

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quote:

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quote:

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quote:

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As usual, Puryear Playboy is spot on and presenting logical thought in a thread.


And I couldn't care any less about what f-ing Jimmy Kimmel thinks about the story. Did that idiot really relate drugging and raping humans to illegally shooting a lion?

---

No. He didn't. Go back and actually listen to what he said. He actually said that what Cosby did is worse. But by all means, let's keep deflecting and finding other people to be mad at or other reasons to pretend this was all on the up and up until more facts just keep rolling in proving what anyone who's honest with themselves knew as they read the original story.

---

Sorry. Honestly I didn't have time to watch the video yet. I was basing that off of this article.

And I am not defending this guy. I was defending the lack of details in the story yesterday morning, because I think it's ridiculous how people are immediately judged in these situations. It turns out this guy was wrong and should pay legally for what he did. I still think the public outrage and the level people want to ruin (or end) this guy's life over a lion in Africa is ridiculous, but we can agree to disagree on that.

You were right in this case about the guy and the overall story. Congrats. I still think you jumped to conclusions too quickly though.

---

I don't disagree with you on that at all. I think the mob mentality witch hunt is equally disgusting. These guys need to be held accountable and justice needs to be served but within the confines of the law.

And no, I didn't jump to conclusions. Everything you needed to know that happened what right there in the original story. It took a bit of reading between the lines but it was obvious unless you just didn't want to see it....and I think that was the case with many on this thread.

---

When you say original story are you talking about the one that said it was a Spaniard who shot the lion?? Because that is clearly NOT factual. And judging by the change in the tone of everyone on this board clearly all the facts you needed were not present in any of the original articles.

You jumped to conclusions in the beginning when not everything was known. The press release wasn't out yet stating that the PH and LO didn't have a valid license, we still don't know if shooting a collared lion on private land is illegal or not, and the mode of baiting as far as I know is still under speculation. You're as much on this outrage bandwagon as anyone and the fact that you're now trying to deny that is ludicrous.

Clearly some shady **** was going on here, and it appears now to be very illegal what happened. But you 100% jumped to a conclusion, got lucky that your "gut' was right, and are now trying to vilify every level headed person on this thread because you got lucky and were correct. Get of the ****ing high horse and try to have a freaking conversation about what happened as more info comes out or gtfoh.

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pretend this was all on the up and up until

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Why do you keep swinging at ghost???

I challenge you to find ONE person, much less a whole group of posters who said that on this thread. Everyone that I saw was just trying to be more factual and use less hyperbole.

---

Why do you and others keep repeating this?!?! From the outset the reaction of many was to ridicule the story, ridicule the media, attempt to discredit them and their accuracy, etc. Now that the story has picked up steam and been verified, and proving what was pretty much obvious to anyone with common sense, it's being spun into "we were just playing devil's advocate" or "we just want more facts and less hyperbole". Bull****. Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining. These were all attempts to discredit the "bed wetting liberal hippies" and support/justify/reconcile the actions of the hunters.

---

It appears that you are either a liar or flat out illiterate.

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I'm neither as the evidence is in the thread for all to see. I suppose it's safe to assume that you're unable to adequately defend your position and have resorted to personal attacks as plan "B".

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I edited my post because I decided that I was out of line with the personal attacks.

What position do I need to defend, that facts are important?

That I didn't want to jump to conclusions when the story was that a spaniard shot a lion?

That there are generally more sides to one story?

The one problem I have as I get older is that I become more and more aware that my initial, visceral reaction may not be 100% accurate. I recognize that just because I FEEL one way, others may not feel the same and we may all be right.

You have had an emotional response to this story from the beginning of this thread. I can respect that. I would hope that you can respect others who choose to approach it differently, but maybe you can't.

Bottom line is there are lot things that I personally can't stand and find pretty disgusting (pretty much any hunts in Africa, canned hunts in Texas, eating wild hogs, just to name a few). The difference in you and I is that I can recognize those are my opinions and some people disagree with me and see things differently and that doesn't make them bad people.

Not to get off topic, but this thread (especially the last two pages) has shown one basic aspect of human nature.

We all place different values and priorities on different things. We all fail to understand other people's values when they don't mirror our own.

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Not to get off topic, but this thread (especially the last two pages) has shown one basic aspect of human nature.

We all place different values and priorities on different things. We all fail to understand other people's values when they don't mirror our own.

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Agreed. And I am guilty party #1.

I'm completely serious. Let's look at the facts first....
1) Neither the PH nor the land owner had the necessary permits
2) They baited the lion out of the national park
3) It was a "famous" lion who was accustomed to people
4) An attempt was made to destroy the GPS collar once the lion was killed
5) The American hunter had a history of legal issues relating to hunting

Now, with all of that in mind, and being the college educated Aggies that we are (and the board with the most common sense (by far) on TexAgs). Does it REALLY take that much of a leap of faith to put two and two together and see that this lion was taken under dubious circumstances? Honestly?

We say ALL THE TIME on this board that where there's smoke there's fire. But because of the subject, a wall went up with many on the thread.

The funniest part is, I'll be the first to accuse the media of being infested with liberals who have neglected their watch dog duties for years and who carry the water for the left. I am a hunter and a conservationist. I LOVE hunting and the outdoors. But because I had the audacity to call a spade a spade in this case, I've been labeled as some sort of pinko commie tree hugger. I've been called a liar, illiterate, anti-hunter, etc. on just this thread and nothing could be further from the truth. It's been eye opening to say the least.

My wall doesn't go up because of the subject matter, it goes up because I've learned to put very little trust in modern day media outlets whose incentive isn't to report the news, but to sell papers and/or ad space, and to generate web traffic.

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As usual, Puryear Playboy is spot on and presenting logical thought in a thread.


And I couldn't care any less about what f-ing Jimmy Kimmel thinks about the story. Did that idiot really relate drugging and raping humans to illegally shooting a lion?

---

No. He didn't. Go back and actually listen to what he said. He actually said that what Cosby did is worse. But by all means, let's keep deflecting and finding other people to be mad at or other reasons to pretend this was all on the up and up until more facts just keep rolling in proving what anyone who's honest with themselves knew as they read the original story.

---

Sorry. Honestly I didn't have time to watch the video yet. I was basing that off of this article.

And I am not defending this guy. I was defending the lack of details in the story yesterday morning, because I think it's ridiculous how people are immediately judged in these situations. It turns out this guy was wrong and should pay legally for what he did. I still think the public outrage and the level people want to ruin (or end) this guy's life over a lion in Africa is ridiculous, but we can agree to disagree on that.

You were right in this case about the guy and the overall story. Congrats. I still think you jumped to conclusions too quickly though.

---

I don't disagree with you on that at all. I think the mob mentality witch hunt is equally disgusting. These guys need to be held accountable and justice needs to be served but within the confines of the law.

And no, I didn't jump to conclusions. Everything you needed to know that happened what right there in the original story. It took a bit of reading between the lines but it was obvious unless you just didn't want to see it....and I think that was the case with many on this thread.

---

When you say original story are you talking about the one that said it was a Spaniard who shot the lion?? Because that is clearly NOT factual. And judging by the change in the tone of everyone on this board clearly all the facts you needed were not present in any of the original articles.

You jumped to conclusions in the beginning when not everything was known. The press release wasn't out yet stating that the PH and LO didn't have a valid license, we still don't know if shooting a collared lion on private land is illegal or not, and the mode of baiting as far as I know is still under speculation. You're as much on this outrage bandwagon as anyone and the fact that you're now trying to deny that is ludicrous.

Clearly some shady **** was going on here, and it appears now to be very illegal what happened. But you 100% jumped to a conclusion, got lucky that your "gut' was right, and are now trying to vilify every level headed person on this thread because you got lucky and were correct. Get of the ****ing high horse and try to have a freaking conversation about what happened as more info comes out or gtfoh.

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And then there are folks such as yourself who pile on who admittedly haven't been involved from the beginning. If you had been, you'd know the original story posted was about the American and mentioned his involvement with a Spanish outfitter. You'd also know that it was known that the proper permits weren't in place when I posted the OP. Again, since you weren't here from the beginning (and since the article has been edited since posting) I find it absolutely fascinating and telling that you'd jump in and start accusing someone of something and telling them to get off of their high horse. Irony, much?
I've freely admitted that I've got some emotional skin in this game but also been very level headed about it. Go back and read the thread. It's hilarious that there are people who are obviously more emotional about the subject than I am, they just happen to be on your side of the argument so they get a free pass.

quote:

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I'm completely serious. Let's look at the facts first....
1) Neither the PH nor the land owner had the necessary permits
2) They baited the lion out of the national park
3) It was a "famous" lion who was accustomed to people
4) An attempt was made to destroy the GPS collar once the lion was killed
5) The American hunter had a history of legal issues relating to hunting

Now, with all of that in mind, and being the college educated Aggies that we are (and the board with the most common sense (by far) on TexAgs). Does it REALLY take that much of a leap of faith to put two and two together and see that this lion was taken under dubious circumstances? Honestly?

We say ALL THE TIME on this board that where there's smoke there's fire. But because of the subject, a wall went up with many on the thread.

The funniest part is, I'll be the first to accuse the media of being infested with liberals who have neglected their watch dog duties for years and who carry the water for the left. I am a hunter and a conservationist. I LOVE hunting and the outdoors. But because I had the audacity to call a spade a spade in this case, I've been labeled as some sort of pinko commie tree hugger. I've been called a liar, illiterate, anti-hunter, etc. on just this thread and nothing could be further from the truth. It's been eye opening to say the least.

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Facts, huh? All of those things were NOT presented as facts in the original story. What was your point again?

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I'm completely serious. Let's look at the facts first....
1) Neither the PH nor the land owner had the necessary permits
2) They baited the lion out of the national park
3) It was a "famous" lion who was accustomed to people
4) An attempt was made to destroy the GPS collar once the lion was killed
5) The American hunter had a history of legal issues relating to hunting

Now, with all of that in mind, and being the college educated Aggies that we are (and the board with the most common sense (by far) on TexAgs). Does it REALLY take that much of a leap of faith to put two and two together and see that this lion was taken under dubious circumstances? Honestly?

We say ALL THE TIME on this board that where there's smoke there's fire. But because of the subject, a wall went up with many on the thread.

The funniest part is, I'll be the first to accuse the media of being infested with liberals who have neglected their watch dog duties for years and who carry the water for the left. I am a hunter and a conservationist. I LOVE hunting and the outdoors. But because I had the audacity to call a spade a spade in this case, I've been labeled as some sort of pinko commie tree hugger. I've been called a liar, illiterate, anti-hunter, etc. on just this thread and nothing could be further from the truth. It's been eye opening to say the least.

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Facts, huh? All of those things were NOT presented as facts in the original story. What was your point again?

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What? The only thing that MAY not have been present in the original story was his run in with the law in Wisconsin over the bear hunt....but at this point I honestly can't remember. I know for certain though that everything else listed was absolutely in the original story, hence my post.

Are you even interested in an honest discussion or are you just trying to play some sort of "gotcha!" game?

quote:

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I'm completely serious. Let's look at the facts first....
1) Neither the PH nor the land owner had the necessary permits
2) They baited the lion out of the national park
3) It was a "famous" lion who was accustomed to people
4) An attempt was made to destroy the GPS collar once the lion was killed
5) The American hunter had a history of legal issues relating to hunting

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Facts that were NOT KNOW in the beginning.

quote:

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Now, with all of that in mind, and being the college educated Aggies that we are (and the board with the most common sense (by far) on TexAgs). Does it REALLY take that much of a leap of faith to put two and two together and see that this lion was taken under dubious circumstances? Honestly?

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With all the known facts out now, literally NOBODY is denying there was wrongdoing in this case.

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We say ALL THE TIME on this board that where there's smoke there's fire. But because of the subject, a wall went up with many on the thread.

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Where there's smoke there is usually fire, true, but how many times in the recent future have there been very similar claims and in the end everything checks out just fine. Cause for a little skepticism, maybe pump the brakes a second before getting out the pitchforks, no?

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The funniest part is, I'll be the first to accuse the media of being infested with liberals who have neglected their watch dog duties for years and who carry the water for the left. I am a hunter and a conservationist. I LOVE hunting and the outdoors. But because I had the audacity to call a spade a spade in this case, I've been labeled as some sort of pinko commie tree hugger. I've been called a liar, illiterate, anti-hunter, etc. on just this thread and nothing could be further from the truth. It's been eye opening to say the least.

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You made a snap, emotional decision, when not all the facts were present. Got lucky that this time nefarious things were going on. Then, when right, proceeded to bash people for not being as outraged as you from the beginning.

It's like poker if you beat AA with 72 you made a bad call, despite the fact that you won. I have no issue with your opinion on hunting or anything else for that matter, to each their own. I take issue with how you jumped to conclusions in the begging and are trying to call people out because they aren't as reckless with their opinions as you.

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And then there are folks such as yourself who pile on who admittedly haven't been involved from the beginning. If you had been, you'd know the original story posted was about the American and mentioned his involvement with a Spanish outfitter. You'd also know that it was known that the proper permits weren't in place when I posted the OP. Again, since you weren't here from the beginning (and since the article has been edited since posting) I find it absolutely fascinating and telling that you'd jump in and start accusing someone of something and telling them to get off of their high horse. Irony, much?
I've freely admitted that I've got some emotional skin in this game but also been very level headed about it. Go back and read the thread. It's hilarious that there are people who are obviously more emotional about the subject than I am, they just happen to be on your side of the argument so they get a free pass.

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I never said I wasn't involved from the beginning. I've been reading and following this thread from it's inception. Nice try though.


*edited for quote length

One thing the outdoors board needs to get better at is knowing when it's time to stop quoting the long posts.

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I'm completely serious. Let's look at the facts first....
1) Neither the PH nor the land owner had the necessary permits
2) They baited the lion out of the national park
3) It was a "famous" lion who was accustomed to people
4) An attempt was made to destroy the GPS collar once the lion was killed
5) The American hunter had a history of legal issues relating to hunting

Now, with all of that in mind, and being the college educated Aggies that we are (and the board with the most common sense (by far) on TexAgs). Does it REALLY take that much of a leap of faith to put two and two together and see that this lion was taken under dubious circumstances? Honestly?

We say ALL THE TIME on this board that where there's smoke there's fire. But because of the subject, a wall went up with many on the thread.

The funniest part is, I'll be the first to accuse the media of being infested with liberals who have neglected their watch dog duties for years and who carry the water for the left. I am a hunter and a conservationist. I LOVE hunting and the outdoors. But because I had the audacity to call a spade a spade in this case, I've been labeled as some sort of pinko commie tree hugger. I've been called a liar, illiterate, anti-hunter, etc. on just this thread and nothing could be further from the truth. It's been eye opening to say the least.

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Facts, huh? All of those things were NOT presented as facts in the original story. What was your point again?

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What? The only thing that MAY not have been present in the original story was his run in with the law in Wisconsin over the bear hunt....but at this point I honestly can't remember. I know for certain though that everything else listed was absolutely in the original story, hence my post.

Are you even interested in an honest discussion or are you just trying to play some sort of "gotcha!" game?

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My God man. I hate myself for arguing with you over this, so you've got that going for you...

Those things were "reported" in the original story. The article did not present most of it as fact. Like I said before, there were words used like "allegedly". It is not a fact just because it was in your original link.

Now, we know that stuff turned out to be true. All I argued for all along was for the process, not this guy's innocence.

So, YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT THE STORY. I WAS WRONG. YOU WIN AN INTERNET ARGUMENT.

Good day.

If your are class of '96 as your handle seems to indicate then we are the exact same age. Point being, I agree with much of what you wrote in your last post as our time on earth has brought us many of the same lessons, I'm sure. OF COURSE, I can respect opinions that are different than mine. What I can't abide are those who just refuse to ignore what's staring them in the face. I mean, just look at the first and second replies to my OP:

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Ok so yesterday it was a Spaniard that paid 55,000 euros. So who really killed it? Maybe tomorrow it will be a Kiwi killed it for $50.

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followed by:

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I'm sure all the stories being released are completely accurate.

Lots of folks probably feel the same way about EVERY hunter.

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followed shortly by a post from Sean which included:

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That story is complete BS crap

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And it just sort of snowballed from there. There wasn't some benevolent call to "wait for all the facts" or some such. It was just a complete dismissal that devolved from there.

Cecil was first identified in 2008 or 2009, spotted with his brother. The pair were seen at a "pan" or watering hole called Magisihole Pan, on the southern boundary of Hwange park.

Magisihole Pan translates as "White Man's watering hole" and so the siblings were named after famous white men: Cecil, after Cecil Rhodes, and Leander named after Leander Starr Jameson, a pioneer in southern Africa and colleague of Rhodes.

"Cecil and Leander had a huge fight in June 2009 with an equally famous lion, called Mpofu, who was a legend," said Mr Stapelkamp. "They bumped each other in the park and had a fight. Leander was killed by Mpofu, and Mpofu had a badly broken leg and had to be put down by park rangers. So then Cecil became the dominant male."

And the lion with the distinctive black-tinged mane soon became a familiar sight to visitors to Hwange park, where an estimated 500 lions live.

"He was confident, but not aggressive," said Mr Stapelkamp.

"He was not really playful more regal. He was a lion and he knew it, and everyone else be damned he was the biggest cat on the block, and didn't have to be playful.

"You could get to two or three photographs of him, without him moving, and he was used to safari vehicles. He was a total lion experience."

Mr Stapelkamp said that he resented the idea that Cecil knew his constant observers as individuals.

"I hate the idea that a wild animal recognises us," he said. "I don't have relationships with animals and that is because I know how to read them. It is not that they know us."

But that is not to say that Cecil was without personality.

Mr Stapelkamp tells a story of how a staff member at Linkwasha camp, where Cecil was a familiar presence, bumped into him when he was delivering laundry.

"Cecil charged towards the man, whose knees gave way in fright, and he sat very hard on the ground," he recalled. "And we presume Cecil was so shocked to see the man fall, it stopped him in his tracks."

The man lived to tell the tale.

When he was killed Cecil was on his fourth collar a system used by the project to monitor the population.


"We dart them with a light dart of drugs which puts them asleep for an hour, and measure them, and then we put on the collar," said Mr Stapelkamp. "I put on the last one."

And Mr Stapelkamp said that Jericho the adult male pictured alongside Cecil in the final photograph is weakened.


"Now he is gone, Jericho is a lone territorial male, and he has to defend territory alone," he said.

"Jericho is a very experienced male. I caught him a few days after Cecil's death. His collar had died some time before, and I put a new one on and we are watching him like hawks."

But, Mr Stapelkamp said, there was still hope for the future of the pride.

"The cubs may survive," he said.

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One thing the outdoors board needs to get better at is knowing when it's time to stop quoting the long posts.

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Agreed. You can delete all the parts of a long quote that are no longer needed. It is just as easy as going in and bolding the one sentence you want to keep.

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If your are class of '96 as your handle seems to indicate then we are the exact same age. Point being, I agree with much of what you wrote in your last post as our time on earth has brought us many of the same lessons, I'm sure. OF COURSE, I can respect opinions that are different than mine. What I can't abide are those who just refuse to ignore what's staring them in the face. I mean, just look at the first and second replies to my OP:

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Ok so yesterday it was a Spaniard that paid 55,000 euros. So who really killed it? Maybe tomorrow it will be a Kiwi killed it for $50.

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followed by:

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I'm sure all the stories being released are completely accurate.

Lots of folks probably feel the same way about EVERY hunter.

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followed shortly by a post from Sean which included:

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That story is complete BS crap

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And it just sort of snowballed from there. There wasn't some benevolent call to "wait for all the facts" or some such. It was just a complete dismissal that devolved from there.

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You care about "being right" way too much. Move on.

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I'm completely serious. Let's look at the facts first....
1) Neither the PH nor the land owner had the necessary permits
2) They baited the lion out of the national park
3) It was a "famous" lion who was accustomed to people
4) An attempt was made to destroy the GPS collar once the lion was killed
5) The American hunter had a history of legal issues relating to hunting

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Facts that were NOT KNOW in the beginning.

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Again, with the exception of maybe the bear incident everything else was absolutely known and written in the story that I first posted yesterday. Furthermore, what you call "jumping to conclusions" I call "deduction". And let's get one thing straight...I'm not calling anyone out for not being as "outraged" as me, I'm simply defending myself and my position from those like you took me to task for jumping to conclusions, etc. when the truth was there for all who wanted to see it.

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quote:

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If your are class of '96 as your handle seems to indicate then we are the exact same age. Point being, I agree with much of what you wrote in your last post as our time on earth has brought us many of the same lessons, I'm sure. OF COURSE, I can respect opinions that are different than mine. What I can't abide are those who just refuse to ignore what's staring them in the face. I mean, just look at the first and second replies to my OP:

quote:

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Ok so yesterday it was a Spaniard that paid 55,000 euros. So who really killed it? Maybe tomorrow it will be a Kiwi killed it for $50.

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followed by:

quote:

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I'm sure all the stories being released are completely accurate.

Lots of folks probably feel the same way about EVERY hunter.

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followed shortly by a post from Sean which included:

quote:

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That story is complete BS crap

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And it just sort of snowballed from there. There wasn't some benevolent call to "wait for all the facts" or some such. It was just a complete dismissal that devolved from there.

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You care about "being right" way too much. Move on.

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LMFAO. What does that even mean?? I was raked over the coals and insulted for my opinion while defending my point of view. I'd expect anyone who truly believed in their position to do the same.

Oh and by the way, I was "right". So take your own advice and "move on.".

Where was the outrage in 2009 when park rangers shot down the former dominant pride lion with a broken leg so Cecil could kill his Cubs and take over? Why not let nature take its course and let hyenas or another lion kill the male with a broken leg?

Again, what happened was wrong on many levels with the PH and LO... Jury's still out on the dentist as he was a paying client and relied on the PH for everything on trip as virtually every paid client does with their PH in Africa... I'd have to believe this dentist would never thought about shooting this lion had he known about the history of it, name, etc....

Researched the bear hunting deal and there's more to it than is being reported in all the lion articles.... What is being said is true in regards to the fine and charge, etc but there is more to the entire deal...

Know the guy shouldn't be getting death threats and have to resort to hiding himself or his family over this deal.. People are crazy these days and assume he's guilty based on a few articles.. Let it all play out.... It's a bad deal for hunting in general and something that will push the lion issue in Africa to the front page for a while.... This has been coming with the demand for lions and Euros and Americans going there to shoot them... This wasn't from what it appears to be one of the "canned hunts" that are giving the sport a black eye... Baiting is legal and normally there are quite a few bait stations hung and dragged with scents from dead plains game to attract lions/leopards when hunting them on non-canned hunts (no high fences/no released animals, etc).... It's common practice to hunt bear borders of refuges all over Africa from my understanding and the folks I've spoken with that have either hunter there or guide there as well.. Surprised it's taken this long for something like this to happen....

Think much more is yet to come out.... Hope this changes some of the rules/regs they've got over there so this doesn't happen again...