quote:Did you even bother to read the story?
I'm sure all the stories being released are completely accurate.
Lots of folks probably feel the same way about EVERY hunter.
quote:no ****. i've seen the same reaction on multiple sites. apparently, you have to be on the side of every hunter or your anti liberal piece of sheet.quote:Did you even bother to read the story?
I'm sure all the stories being released are completely accurate.
Lots of folks probably feel the same way about EVERY hunter.
quote:here's what i wrote on another side where they are discussing this.
Are there other hunters on the OB that feel like hunting some of these certain types of animals is, less than admirable?
E.G. Rhinos, lions, etc.
quote:i still don't think i'd ever want to participate. but that comes from a nonhunter that spent significant time in Africa.
my ex-fiancee's brother in law actually taught me all about big cat hunting in Africa. he was a Norwegian and generally as big of environmentalist as you expect out of Europe these days.
he worked for Unicef in Zimbabwe for 3 years. i talked to him about how much i enjoy hunting deer and other animals but i didn't understand why people would want to hunt big cats and other large that are facing serious issues.
his response, "if it weren't for hunters, there would be no big cats." i had read the stories on forums about the meat going to locals etc. but, i never really believed until he told me because he had no reason to lie about it. hunting was far from his thing.
quote:I'm in this camp. I've never seen the purpose in killing endangered animals unless it's in a moment of self-preservation. Maybe it's cause I'm an lolpoor and I don't have ~$30k to piss away, but even if I could I don't think I would want to. Not saying I hate people that do it, I have a few friends that have gone on Safari hunts and had a blast...there's just something about shooting an endangered animal that I can't bring myself to willingly do.
Are there other hunters on the OB that feel like hunting some of these certain types of animals is, less than admirable?
E.G. Rhinos, lions, etc.
quote:Pretty much this.
So I know nothing about lion hunting in Zimbabwe. Is it illegal because he was collared? Or (it was vague in the story) did they follow him back into the national park to finish him off?
Because other than that it sounds like the lion was baited (which was normal) and shot on private ground. The hunter believed the landowner had a valid permit, he paid for that permit, and shot a lion (again, sort of vague - one side says no permit; landowner says permit). How was he to know it was "Cecil?" Stand up and ask him for ID before triggering his release?
That story is complete BS crap. Punctuated by the "paid $45,000 at an auction for the right to shoot an elk in 2009, in a sale promoted as financing preservation of the elk habitat." It wasn't promoted as financing habitat preservation, it WAS financing habitat preservation. Also desert bighorns aren't endangered or you wouldn't be allowed to hunt them. Just a ton of little 'death by paper cut' type BS in there.
Now, I'm sure any guy that would post shirtless with a dead leopard is a d-bag, but it doesn't seem like he did anything illegal here on the face of it.
quote:
It appears the land owner and guide acted illegally. The hunter while he appears to be legally hunting probably acted unethically
quote:
Are there other hunters on the OB that feel like hunting some of these certain types of animals is, less than admirable?
E.G. Rhinos, lions, etc.
quote:
Proverbs 12:10
Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel.
quote:
Proverbs 12:27
Whoever is slothful will not roast his game, but the diligent man will get precious wealth.
quote:i wish i could reach out to the guy and see what they are saying about it over there. he still has lots of contacts and goes back regularly. my one big regret is that i did not take the open opportunity to go to Zimbabwe when i had the chance.
Not surprising to hear, as hunters are generally better conservationalists!
quote:the only thing i will say about seeing his background having hunted in Africa before is that he's clearly not a clueless first timer. did he know that this was a special lion ahead of time? there's no way to know that. but, if this thing really was wearing a radio collar, would any of us not stop and think something is off here?
So I know nothing about lion hunting in Zimbabwe. Is it illegal because he was collared? Or (it was vague in the story) did they follow him back into the national park to finish him off?
Because other than that it sounds like the lion was baited (which was normal) and shot on private ground. The hunter believed the landowner had a valid permit, he paid for that permit, and shot a lion (again, sort of vague - one side says no permit; landowner says permit). How was he to know it was "Cecil?" Stand up and ask him for ID before triggering his release?
That story is complete BS crap. Punctuated by the "paid $45,000 at an auction for the right to shoot an elk in 2009, in a sale promoted as financing preservation of the elk habitat." It wasn't promoted as financing habitat preservation, it WAS financing habitat preservation. Also desert bighorns aren't endangered or you wouldn't be allowed to hunt them. Just a ton of little 'death by paper cut' type BS in there.
Now, I'm sure any guy that would post shirtless with a dead leopard is a d-bag, but it doesn't seem like he did anything illegal here on the face of it.
quote:There's nothing vague about it. It quite clearly states that it's illegal to remove the collar. It quite clearly states that he was intentionally baited out of the confines of the park. It quite clearly quotes the outfitter/guide self reported his "mistake". They knew what they were doing was wrong and to try to otherwise justify it in light of that fact is completely intellectually dishonest.
So I know nothing about lion hunting in Zimbabwe. Is it illegal because he was collared? Or (it was vague in the story) did they follow him back into the national park to finish him off?
Because other than that it sounds like the lion was baited (which was normal) and shot on private ground. The hunter believed the landowner had a valid permit, he paid for that permit, and shot a lion (again, sort of vague - one side says no permit; landowner says permit). How was he to know it was "Cecil?" Stand up and ask him for ID before triggering his release?
That story is complete BS crap. Punctuated by the "paid $45,000 at an auction for the right to shoot an elk in 2009, in a sale promoted as financing preservation of the elk habitat." It wasn't promoted as financing habitat preservation, it WAS financing habitat preservation. Also desert bighorns aren't endangered or you wouldn't be allowed to hunt them. Just a ton of little 'death by paper cut' type BS in there.
Now, I'm sure any guy that would post shirtless with a dead leopard is a d-bag, but it doesn't seem like he did anything illegal here on the face of it.
quote:quote:
It appears the land owner and guide acted illegally. The hunter while he appears to be legally hunting probably acted unethically
How so?
quote:This is what I am thinking. I have NO knowledge of how these hunts are supposed to go but I'd bet the hunter knew his hunting spot was close to this National Park where the animals are generally off limits as well as more used to human interaction. I don't know if he could have seen the collar on the lion as in every picture and video I've seen I can't see it. But the hunter had to know it was possibly a lion off the National Park.
the only thing i will say about seeing his background having hunted in Africa before is that he's clearly not a clueless first timer. did he know that this was a special lion ahead of time? there's no way to know that. but, if this thing really was wearing a radio collar, would any of us not stop and think something is off here?
quote:Yep, I read it today and yesterday when the culprit was from Spain and he paid $55K for the hunt. What I'm saying is don't believe what some idiot in the media from halfway around the world wrote. We all know that most of the people that write these articles are PETA sycophants.quote:Did you even bother to read the story?
I'm sure all the stories being released are completely accurate.
Lots of folks probably feel the same way about EVERY hunter.
quote:quote:quote:
It appears the land owner and guide acted illegally. The hunter while he appears to be legally hunting probably acted unethically
How so?quote:This is what I am thinking. I have NO knowledge of how these hunts are supposed to go but I'd bet the hunter knew his hunting spot was close to this National Park where the animals are generally off limits as well as more used to human interaction. I don't know if he could have seen the collar on the lion as in every picture and video I've seen I can't see it. But the hunter had to know it was possibly a lion off the National Park.
the only thing i will say about seeing his background having hunted in Africa before is that he's clearly not a clueless first timer. did he know that this was a special lion ahead of time? there's no way to know that. but, if this thing really was wearing a radio collar, would any of us not stop and think something is off here?
quote:So you don't believe the FACTS that are now being reported? That the guide turned himself in? That the shooting of a collared lion is illegal? That they baited him out of the park and shot him a mere half mile from its boundaries?quote:Yep, I read it today and yesterday when the culprit was from Spain and he paid $55K for the hunt. What I'm saying is don't believe what some idiot in the media from halfway around the world wrote. We all know that most of the people that write these articles are PETA sycophants.quote:Did you even bother to read the story?
I'm sure all the stories being released are completely accurate.
Lots of folks probably feel the same way about EVERY hunter.
What if the lion wasn't "famous"? You wouldn't hear about it. Kind of like when a famous crack ***** drowns in the bathtub the news goes crazy but when you local unknown crack ***** drowns in the bathtub no one notices.
quote:Yeah, I'm not understanding the outrage that this lion was "baited" off of the NP. It's illegal to hunt them in a national park, but unless it's illegal to hunt them on adjacent land, what's the problem?quote:quote:quote:
It appears the land owner and guide acted illegally. The hunter while he appears to be legally hunting probably acted unethically
How so?quote:This is what I am thinking. I have NO knowledge of how these hunts are supposed to go but I'd bet the hunter knew his hunting spot was close to this National Park where the animals are generally off limits as well as more used to human interaction. I don't know if he could have seen the collar on the lion as in every picture and video I've seen I can't see it. But the hunter had to know it was possibly a lion off the National Park.
the only thing i will say about seeing his background having hunted in Africa before is that he's clearly not a clueless first timer. did he know that this was a special lion ahead of time? there's no way to know that. but, if this thing really was wearing a radio collar, would any of us not stop and think something is off here?
If his PG and the landowner gave every indication that this lion was a lion to shoot, how can you really put much (if any) blame on the hunter that is relying on their local expertise? Simply because a dude has been hunting before does not mean that he is an automatic expert in every area.
And the article says that hunting on national park land is illegal, but not in land adjacent to it. I equate that to bison hunting in Yellowstone - you can't hunt on YNP land, but there is ample opportunity to hunt those very same bison that graze off national park lands, and it's perfectly legal to do so.
quote:yes, you are right. but, i'll put it another way. this guy has been to Africa. he knows what happens when he kills animal there. he takes the head and skin and the rest goes to the local population. so, if they just skinned the lion and took the head and left the carcass on the ground, what did he think then?quote:quote:quote:
It appears the land owner and guide acted illegally. The hunter while he appears to be legally hunting probably acted unethically
How so?quote:This is what I am thinking. I have NO knowledge of how these hunts are supposed to go but I'd bet the hunter knew his hunting spot was close to this National Park where the animals are generally off limits as well as more used to human interaction. I don't know if he could have seen the collar on the lion as in every picture and video I've seen I can't see it. But the hunter had to know it was possibly a lion off the National Park.
the only thing i will say about seeing his background having hunted in Africa before is that he's clearly not a clueless first timer. did he know that this was a special lion ahead of time? there's no way to know that. but, if this thing really was wearing a radio collar, would any of us not stop and think something is off here?
If his PG and the landowner gave every indication that this lion was a lion to shoot, how can you really put much (if any) blame on the hunter that is relying on their local expertise? Simply because a dude has been hunting before does not mean that he is an automatic expert in every area.
And the article says that hunting on national park land is illegal, but not in land adjacent to it. I equate that to bison hunting in Yellowstone - you can't hunt on YNP land, but there is ample opportunity to hunt those very same bison that graze off national park lands, and it's perfectly legal to do so.
quote:A) you cannot shoot a collared lionquote:Yeah, I'm not understanding the outrage that this lion was "baited" off of the NP. It's illegal to hunt them in a national park, but unless it's illegal to hunt them on adjacent land, what's the problem?quote:quote:quote:
It appears the land owner and guide acted illegally. The hunter while he appears to be legally hunting probably acted unethically
How so?quote:This is what I am thinking. I have NO knowledge of how these hunts are supposed to go but I'd bet the hunter knew his hunting spot was close to this National Park where the animals are generally off limits as well as more used to human interaction. I don't know if he could have seen the collar on the lion as in every picture and video I've seen I can't see it. But the hunter had to know it was possibly a lion off the National Park.
the only thing i will say about seeing his background having hunted in Africa before is that he's clearly not a clueless first timer. did he know that this was a special lion ahead of time? there's no way to know that. but, if this thing really was wearing a radio collar, would any of us not stop and think something is off here?
If his PG and the landowner gave every indication that this lion was a lion to shoot, how can you really put much (if any) blame on the hunter that is relying on their local expertise? Simply because a dude has been hunting before does not mean that he is an automatic expert in every area.
And the article says that hunting on national park land is illegal, but not in land adjacent to it. I equate that to bison hunting in Yellowstone - you can't hunt on YNP land, but there is ample opportunity to hunt those very same bison that graze off national park lands, and it's perfectly legal to do so.
quote:
JOINT PRESS STATEMENT BY ZIMBABWE PARKS AND WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AUTHORITY AND SAFARI OPERATORS ASSOCIATION OF ZIMBABWE ON THE ILLEGAL HUNT OF A COLLARED LION AT ANTOINETTE FARM, HWANGE DISTRICT ON 1 JULY 2015 IN GWAYI CONSERVANCY BY BUSHMAN SAFARIS PROFESSIONAL HUNTER, THEO BRONKHORST.
Theo Bronchorst, a professional hunter with Bushman Safaris is facing criminal charges (VIC FALLS Police CR 27/07/2015) for allegedly killing a collared lion on Antoinette farm in Gwayi Conservancy, Hwange district on 1 July 2015. The lion named 'Cecil' was well known and regularly sighted by tourists in the Main camp area of Hwange National Park. It is alleged that the hunter connived with the Antoinette land owner, Mr. Honest Trymore Ndlovu to kill the lion. Ongoing investigations to date, suggest that the killing of the lion was illegal since the land owner was not allocated a lion on his hunting quota for 2015. Therefore, all persons implicated in this case are due to appear in court facing poaching charges.
Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management as the Regulatory Authority and custodian of all wild animals in Zimbabwe issues hunting permits and hunting quota for all hunting areas in Zimbabwe so that only animals on quota are to be hunted. In this case, both the professional hunter and land owner had no permit or quota to justify the offtake of the lion and therefore are liable for the illegal hunt.
Both professional hunter Theo Bronkhorst's licence number 553 who was involved in the hunt and the owner of Antoinette farm, Mr. Honest Trymore Ndlovu are being jointly charged for illegally hunting the lion. The two are due to appear in court on Wednesday, 29 July 2015. Efforts are being made to interview the other professional hunter, Zane Bronkhorst, licence number 558, who was also involved in the illegal hunt.
The Professional Hunter Theo Bronkhosrt's Licence has been suspended with immediate effect. The lion trophy has also been confiscated. The relevant stakeholders have been informed and are being updated about this matter.
