I had about 300 acres aerial sprayed for *****ly pear with Surmount in early March following NRCS guidelines in the EQUIP program. My oak trees in that area of the ranch (near Brady) appear to be damaged severely. They currently have no leaves on them and I'm afraid I've lost them. We avoided the bottom areas where there are thick stands of post oak and live oaks and only sprayed the open hills where the pear had really taken over. However, These areas did have lots of oak motes and treed draws and the oaks in the area are now very very stressed maybe even dead. Does anyone have any experience or advice for me? I'm devastated if I've lost all my oaks in that area! I would have never sprayed if I would have known it would kill all my oaks and just lived with the pear. They advised me to spray at that time so we wouldn't hurt the oaks too bad.

There is nothing you can do now.

I have tested Surmount on some small oaks and it looks like it's very deadly to them. I have used Surmount on fences and roads but we do not have many oaks that I could accidentally spray in those areas. The Surmount sure did change the looks of the pasture. Certain areas that were dominated by cactus last year have only a few dried up brown remnants of the cactus. I should have taken a before and after picture.

Once the Surmount hits the oak leaves or even through the soil, it is too late.

knew it would probably stress the smaller trees but was told if it was sprayed in late Feb or early March while oaks where shedding leaves that they would be ok. I never imagined it would kill big mature oaks like the one below.

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was told if it was sprayed in late Feb or early March while oaks where shedding leaves that they would be ok. I never imagined it would kill big mature oaks like the one

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I wonder if that is a generally accepted principle. I know that while you are seeing oaks drop their leaves in late February (around here) there are tiny replacement leaves sprouting out. It seems that the timing of spraying would be almost impossible. I would think they would try to do it right before the leaf drop, but also, every tree isn't on the exact same schedule.

One of our local farmers, long gone now, used to say that it is time to plant corn when the oak leaves are as big as a mouses ear. Around here, most of the farmers are planting corn in the last week of February. Using this as a guideline, I would say that anything in March is too late and you would be spraying right on top of a newly sprouted oak leaf (again, around here ... Medina County). Of course your calendar would move back a little as you go north.

Thanks Allen, I appreciate your comments. I was concerned that they didn't get to it until eary March, but you know, I've got a buddy that has a place in Llano Co and he did the same thing (same chemical, same dosage, same applicator) but did it in mid-February. I talked to him yesterday and he is sick as well about it because his trees looked like mine last time he was out at his place about a month or so ago.

I did a test last year and posted pictures on Texags OB. I sprayed a Texas Mountain Laurel and a Texas Persimmon with Surmount, and sprayed two of the same with Sendero, and I tagged them with some plastic laminated tags so I would be able to track the results for a while.

I am looking at those trees this year....

Surmount: both the Persimmon and the Laurel are as dead as they can be.

Sendero: both the Persimmon and the Laurel are growing back. They had appeared to slowly die, and they were definitely set back, but were not killed.

Note: I only use Sendero on Mesquites because it is a higher price than most brush control herbicides. But I did the test because every once in a while I am spraying mesquites and would like to hit that one Persimmon or Laurel while I am in that area. After doing that test, I know what the results will be .... set back but no kill.

As for Surmount, so far it kills just about everything.

I'm heading down there this week to see it all myself but I've been told all the mesquites are thriving (of course), cedar burned pretty good and at least 70% of the oaks look like the one in the picture. But when you look at the picture, most of the shorter brush around the oak looks pretty green to me. I'm really anxious to see it all with my own eyes this week just afraid of what I'm going to see.

I have been wanting to use Surmount to kill *****ly pear in Bosque County, but you just helped me out. That doesn't look good. I feel awful for you.

I won't aerial spray Surmount again that's for sure. It may be ok if you spot spray it but I'd keep it away from any good trees. I will try to remember to post an update later this year but I'm pretty sick over it now. I guess the positive thing is the pear is burnt to hell.

CCA and ag chem guy here.

How far away from the desired oaks did they fly? How long after application was rain? How much rain?

Surmount will smoke oaks, regardless of the time of year in my experience. Anything saying otherwise is dancing with the devil. Sendero is a great product.

Always remember that brush control is measured by control after 24 months in most cases. *****ly Pear control by surmount can by less that 7%, but after 3 years and no additional applications it can by >90%.

Tex Aggie - Unfortunately I wasn't there when they did it (that's probably a big mistake as well) but I know the oaks were in the designated spray area so I'm not sure they even tried to avoid them. As far as rainfall, I think we had a couple of inches during the week or so following and then a ton of rain (for Brady anyway) in May like everywhere else. We probably got two or so inches in April and four or more in May. That's the wettest spring I've seen there since I bought the place 15 years ago.

I've had foresters recommend aerial herbicide applications for my timber stand, but I've avoided it in favor of burning. I've been very happy with burning, but you have to commit to it and do it frequently. The cost, complexity, side effects, and general unknown nature of herbicides has kept me away.

Sorry for your oaks, but a fire regiment may control the cactus and mosquite and allow new oaks to germinate

This is brutal and absolutely sickening. I'm really sorry to read this, OP.
This is just another example of why I'm so leery of using synthetics. I use them, but very sparingly and usually when I've seen the effects of an application on someone else's place.

If there was any green on the tree, damage was done. If an oil/water mix was used, more damage was done. There is a possibility that with a minimal of leaf showing, a recovery can happen - it won't be pretty, but a recovery will happen.

I bet that if they didn't directly spray over them that they will recover. Not great but they can. Prolly had a lot of leaf burn and defoliation that looks dead. We have aerially sprayed grazon p+d several times and it'll burn oaks but they come back. I've sprayed small oaks in pastures and didn't touch them.
If trees you are describing have any size and age, they are more resilient than you think. Repost here next year and you'll know

Thanks guys! Be back in the office tomorrow and will post some pics. Listening to all the rain on my roof as I type this from my cabin here on the ranch has got to be good for those sick oaks, right? I've got quite a few pics of trees in the no spray area, edge of spray area and dead center of the spray area. Simply amazing the difference in foliage on them. I really do appreciate all the input and still praying for the best.

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knew it would probably stress the smaller trees but was told if it was sprayed in late Feb or early March while oaks where shedding leaves that they would be ok. I never imagined it would kill big mature oaks like the one below.

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Whomever told you that was not a smart person, and I would kick them in the nuts if I were you.

On the Surmount product label, it says the following...

"Many woody species are susceptible to this product. Trees can be affected by root uptake of the herbicide from surface soil, or by excretion of the herbicide from the roots of nearby treated trees. Do not apply Surmount within the area occupied by the roots of desirable trees, unless injury can be tolerated."

The herbicide stays active in the soil and in groundwater, and is taken in by roots.

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knew it would probably stress the smaller trees but was told if it was sprayed in late Feb or early March while oaks where shedding leaves that they would be ok. I never imagined it would kill big mature oaks like the one below.

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Whomever told you that was not a smart person, and I would kick them in the nuts if I were you.

On the Surmount product label, it says the following...

"Many woody species are susceptible to this product. Trees can be affected by root uptake of the herbicide from surface soil, or by excretion of the herbicide from the roots of nearby treated trees. Do not apply Surmount within the area occupied by the roots of desirable trees, unless injury can be tolerated."

The herbicide stays active in the soil and in groundwater, and is taken in by roots.

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At the broadcast rate used by air, the amount hitting the soil surface is minute and not likely to cause that kind of damage. They tend to cover their asses big time on the labels.

Will 2-4-D or P+D damage oak trees?

Yes, but p+d especially will because of the picloram.

We had pastures sprayed all the time with p+d, and every once in a while there would be some damage to an oak tree on the lower branches. They always came back from it. The damage from the pics the op posted is disturbing, because it almost looks like they sprayed right over the top of the trees.

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At the broadcast rate used by air, the amount hitting the soil surface is minute and not likely to cause that kind of damage.

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Out of curiosity, how could there be enough herbicide broadcast to kill cactus on the ground, but not enough to hit the soil?

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At the broadcast rate used by air, the amount hitting the soil surface is minute and not likely to cause that kind of damage.

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Out of curiosity, how could there be enough herbicide broadcast to kill cactus on the ground, but not enough to hit the soil?

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Yep. I've seen cotton fields wiped out by herbicides that were sprayed several miles away on a windy day. When a plant is sensitive, it doesn't take much.

With air application, picloram will still hit the ground. Throw in a little rain to wash it into the root zone...

Thought I would post a few pics of the trees down on my place I took this week:

First one is a typical oak in the no spray area unaffected by the surmount



Another in the no spray area and in good shape


Next pic is an oak in the no spray area but getting very close (within 50 yards - see the foliage on the left side



Next pic is dead center in sprayed area


Ground Zero - the heavily treed draw in the spray zone


At least it's doing its job on the pear

Ill send him a direct message with link to this thread in case he doesn't frequent the boards and misses your request. I'm curious as well.

Finally saw this thread. Sorry I just don't spend as much time on Texags these days. Update on my oaks. In a classic cost/benefit analysis, I'm definitely glad I sprayed the pear. There is no doubt I lost a few oaks. However, Most have come back fine. I'm curious to see how the Feb '21 deep freeze impacted my live oaks. Last time I was there a few weeks ago, they were burnt pretty bad. But as far as the sumount, it knocked the crap out of the *****ly pear and cedars and I'd do it again. You just have to be really cautious if you aerial spray near your good trees. thanks for the DM, I would have never gone back to this thread