Every year I see fewer and fewer mourning doves around Houston. I've even noticed that white wings are now outnumbering mournings up in Brazos county. 20 years ago there were virtually ZERO WW's this far from the valley. In the 70's we would spend a ton in order to go on a special WW hunt in the valley for the 3 day special season.... What has changed ? And why does the abundance of WW mean the elimination of the mourning doves ? Cant they exist in the same habitat or do the WW's actually force them out ?
My backyard is covered with WWings. Can't stand that racket they make, sounds like an old screen door on a 78 year old house that has not been oiled since the end of WWI... Never hear the gentle sounds of mourning doves anymore..

Species come and go. Those most adapt to survive will. My impression is the WW are just out competing the MD

have you seen the collared dove population?

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have you seen the collared dove population?

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I started to see a lot of the collared doves but it seems that Ike caused some change and I have seen very few since.

WW do really well in our suburban neighborhoods and they don't migrate like mornings so they are established and can out compete for nesting habitat.

The mourning dove population has been declining at a rate of roughly 1% per year since the late 60's. The ww dove population has exploded since roughly 1990. The ww has almost been eliminated twice since 1900 due to agricultural or land use changes in the Valley, but the ww has a LOT of behavioral plasticity compared to mourning doves. The ww does extremely well in urban areas, especially as oak trees mature (picture the urban explosion in Tx in the mid 50's through 60's). Being larger and more aggressive, they will out compete mournings, especially in urban areas.--boiled down, ww are quickly becoming an urban specialist.

There's been quite a bit of research on this matter, some through TPWD, some Tx. State, and quite a bit through A&M. Statewide we band ~20,000 birds (don't hold me to that number, it changes, and my mind still has about a month before I shift focus to doves). Additionally, there is statewide distance sampling done measuring dove populations in urban areas. I know I have ~100 points that takes me roughly 7 mornings.....and I end up with yikes stories (I've been propositioned at 6:45 AM for $.75 for bus money, chased by homeless guys, and questioned by Secret Service).

I can write up more later when I'm on a computer.

Do WW build as flimsy of nests as MD?

Seriously, it's amazing any MD survive, their parents are horrible civil engineers.

The ww build the same flimsy nest, but tend to choose stouter trees (mature oaks/cedar elm vs. pretty much anywhere).

Another advantage the ww has is its feeding habits. They can actually consume significantly larger food items, opening a wider range of food options. They also aren't bound to feeding on the ground. The mourning dove feeds almost exclusively on the ground. The ww feeds on the ground, but is perfectly happy to hang on to something and peck away at a food source.

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Do WW build as flimsy of nests as MD?

Seriously, it's amazing any MD survive, their parents are horrible civil engineers.

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Not only are the nests crap, they build them in the very worst spot. Last year there were two nests on my dad's front porch, both nests only held together by the toolbox and table they were built against. This year at my apartment, there's a nest in the smallest live oak in the complex and another nest on a super small railing below a second floor railing. I feel bad for them, but come on guys.

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have you seen the collared dove population?

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We just started seeing Eurasian Collared Doves in Boise just this year. I didn't know what they were so I googlied pictures of doves and found a picture of them. I then read that they are non-native. Question: Since they are non-native, is there any limit on them during dove season?

It's hilarious. Cardinals etc build nice sturdy and pretty nests, doves throw 15 sticks onto of each other, lay an egg and raise a baby or two on that pile of sticks.

A stiff breeze could blow it over.

No limit, no closed season on collared doves

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No limit, no closed season on collared doves

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Hmmm. May have to buy a Gamo air rifle with the built in suppressor. I am half way serious. I am not familiar with WW dove, but these collared dove make an obnoxious squawking noise as well. Unlike the soothing cooing the mourning dove make. Heading to Cabelas now.... Oh and I'll need to stop by Albertson's and get some bacon as well.

They taste just like any other dove, and they are some huge birds.

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May have to buy a Gamo air rifle with the built in suppressor. I am half way serious.

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my freezer shows that i am all the way serious on this topic. Problem is that since about dec the ww have totally replaced ring necks in my area of fort worth.

Tip: in my experience thus far, a shoulder shot more consistently drops them immediately than one on the breast plate.

I had never shot a whitewing up here in the Panhandle until two years ago. I figured that bird had just gotten lost somehow. Last year I shot about five of them. Looks like that number will continue to go up.

The expansion basically follows interstates (ie jumping cities). They went right up I-35, and then started heading east and west.

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The expansion basically follows interstates (ie jumping cities). They went right up I-35, and then started heading east and west.

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That's amazing. Splains why they are thick as thieves in Ft Worth but just starting to show up in College Station.
Hopefully the state can look at some serious increase in WW hunting in order to help thin them out and help the MD populations

Yeah, I've definitely noticed more WW in the Houston area than several years ago. And the collared are much more prevalent than the MD.

The problem is it can be sometimes difficult to ID the collared vs. MD. MD have the more pointed tail feathers but it's not always so pronounced while collared dove can sometimes have pointier tail feathers than they normally would.

Maybe it's just the two butter balls at my Dad's place but the Collared seem much bigger than Mourning

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Maybe it's just the two butter balls at my Dad's place but the Collared seem much bigger than Mourning

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they are way bigger in general

Collared doves (at least in Houston) have a penchant for sitting on top of light posts. Guess they like the unobstructed view?

Ursusguy, I've heard the ringneck dove have more nests per year than the mourning dove. Is that true?

last year while dove hunting, I walked up on top of a hill right at the end of the appropriate shooting time and one of the damn collared doves (that i'd shot at several times and missed) was perched on top of one of the old chicken houses on our property. I was pissed that the little **** was just sitting there and probably grinning at me.

my girlfriend reminded me that they were invasive. And needless to say, the big guy never stood a chance

Panhandle--I can't give you a complete honest answer (I'm more of a mammals person, and think about doves for about a 2 month stretch through dove survey and banding season). Both are known to have multiple broods in a nesting season. I know the mourning doves crank out 1-6 broods, and the collared crank out up to 5 broods. As finicky as mourning dove are, I'm sure they are all over the place. The number of broods in season is influenced by a lot of weather factors.

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My backyard is covered with WWings. Can't stand that racket they make, sounds like an old screen door on a 78 year old house that has not been oiled since the end of WWI...

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Do you have kids? I shot many a limits in my backyard growing up with a pellet gun. And they were those fat suckers right off the bird feeder.

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I've even noticed that white wings are now outnumbering mournings up in Brazos county.

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Haven't seen this personally. In town there are a ton of WW and where we live I'd guess its about 70% mourning dove, 25% WW, and 5% collared doves if I had to put a number on it. Just south of CS where we hunt its probably 90-95% mourning doves with a few collared and WW sprinkled in.

I always find it a little ironic I have to leave trees chock full of WW in September in Houston to drive out to some field in the country to try and shoot some of their friends and not see any of them. Pisses me off. They taunt me all year.

For many years now, I've been seeing lots of WW in town (Coryell County). Sometimes 2 dozen or more around birdfeeders. Seems there is just as many of those as mournings, but a much lesser number of collared doves. Back in the day, we never saw WW anywhere around town.

But I have never killed a WW while dove hunting outside of town. I do the occasional collared dove, but never any WW.

Like I've said, they like the city.

Just a reminder, that's technically illegal.....and yes, I know of several people that have been ticketed for it. Neighbors called on them.

I occasionally see one that is the size of a white wing or Eurasian, but they don't have the white wing marking or the collar, yet they are way too big for a mourning dove. Am I seeing a hybrid?

Whitewings began showing up in large numbers here in town back in the 80s. I believe a contributing factor was a freeze in the Valley that killed/stressed many citrus trees where they roosted and nested.

So they began moving north and found rural and urban trees to their liking, as ursus noted.

Oddly enough, in the western hill country (deer camp) we've been seeing more and more mourning and whitewing each year, with a lot of mourning staying year-round.