First, a couple of housekeeping notes.

• I apologize for this not being an AR15 thread.
  
• Uberti, Rossi, or any other manufacturer, no matter how logical the reasoning, is out of the question. He wants a Henry, and he will get a Henry.
  

A close relative of mine, actually my wife's, has decided that he wants a Henry Lever Action rifle. Fair enough. They are pretty nice looking and the few I have encountered are real smooth. He fondled a nice presentation Henry I have in 22mag and decided he needed one.

He is an old school rancher. He is not buying this gun to hang on a wall and has every intention of sticking it on his Polaris and using it. He is not a gun guy in the sense that he collects and buys a lot, but he has a Winchester 70 in 30.06 and a 94 that have seen more deer, hogs, and coyotes than a lot of us could imagine. He has been killing them all for decades and has every intention of doing the same with this, especially the hogs and coyotes.

Personally, I would get it in 30-30, but he has one(the 94). He wants it in the pistol caliber. He is not a plinker. Most of his shots will be to kill, so the ability to feed it Specials or handle a bunch of recoil is not that big of a deal.

He will probably scope it.

So, he is east/central Texas with almost all shots coming in under 150 yards with most under that. He probably takes a shot at some demon or other critter every couple of weeks, most recently a coyote with the 30-30 that was coming up to the chicken coup.

So, maybe some of you more advanced ballistics guys can help me out. A .357, .44mag, or 45LC?

On a side not, a 45-70 version is not completely out of the question.

Thanks OB.

Here ya go bud

1. Dont apologize for the thread. A great thing is we can talk about almost anything here.

2. A .357 is going to be the most versatile in terms of power, projectile selection, and range.

Normally i would throw my weight behind a .45, because carrying one round for both carbine and pistol is nice, and I like the .45 above all others. But the .45, and almost to the same degree the .44, really falls off around 75 yards in both power and trajectory. You may get a little more with some really hot loads, but neither will really compete with a hot .357.

So, .357/.38.

My dad for some reason got into really loving the Uberti rifles and revolvers. It took forever to find one in Houston but while there I convinced him to get a Henry. He ended up with a 45-70 and saving about half the cash. That being said, I'd say go with the 44 mag if you're dead set on those rounds. I just like the round better. If you're open to the 45-70, however, I'd strongly recommend it. It is a joy to shoot.

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Here ya go bud

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Haha. I expected that from you.

If I showed up with that he would not let me past the cattle guard.

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1. Dont apologize for the thread. A great thing is we can talk about almost anything here.

2. A .357 is going to be the most versatile in terms of power, projectile selection, and range.

Normally i would throw my weight behind a .45, because carrying one round for both carbine and pistol is nice, and I like the .45 above all others. But the .45, and almost to the same degree the .44, really falls off around 75 yards in both power and trajectory. You may get a little more with some really hot loads, but neither will really compete with a hot .357.

So, .357/.38.

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Thats what I thought and the answer I was looking for. I was assuming the .357 would be the best towards the end of his ranges.

Thanks

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My dad for some reason got into really loving the Uberti rifles and revolvers. It took forever to find one in Houston but while there I convinced him to get a Henry. He ended up with a 45-70 and saving about half the cash. That being said, I'd say go with the 44 mag if you're dead set on those rounds. I just like the round better. If you're open to the 45-70, however, I'd strongly recommend it. It is a joy to shoot.

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But, to Schmelbas point, doesnt the .357 have better range than the .44mag? If you were sitting at 110 yards aiming at a hog would you rather have a .44mag or a .357 understanding these are going to be factory loads?


Second the .45/70. But I think he is sold on the pistol round.

To be fair I do have a Henry .22 I got for my 18th sitting in the safe.

If 45-70 is an option I think I would go with that.

I have a Rossi in .44 and my dad has a uberti 1860 in .45LC. If the rifle is gunna be used as you described I would get either the .357 or the .44 as those two are very common. The .45LC has become more common but it still lags behind the others. I carry my 24" .44 in my truck 24/7 365, it works wonders on hogs and deer. The barnes vortex 225 gr .44 is particularly effective on hogs and deer.

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I have a Rossi in .44 and my dad has a uberti 1860 in .45LC. If the rifle is gunna be used as you described I would get either the .357 or the .44 as those two are very common. The .45LC has become more common but it still lags behind the others. I carry my 24" .44 in my truck 24/7 365, it works wonders on hogs and deer. The barnes vortex 225 gr .44 is particularly effective on hogs and deer.

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What would you consider your max range with that .44?

With the sights I have on it about 100 yards, I replaced the front bead and am wanting to heyvthe tang sight for it. As I have shot several of the same firearms with tang setups and tey have been accurate up to 200 yards. I have killed a deer at 87 yards and several hogs at just over 100 and can consistently hit a paper plate at 100.

Underwood ammo makes hell of a loading for the .44 mag.

340 grain +P+ Lead flat nose.
1533 ft/lbs

That's just out of a Redhawk. From a rifle they would smack the crap out of a deer or elk.

I believe that you are right. I believe that the 357 has a little more range, but I can't be sure. If remembering correctly the 44 will have more drop at 100 but will also have more power at that distance, albeit marginally. Would have to agree with earlier assessment of 357 being more versatile; me liking the 44 mag more than 357 is just preference, honestly.

This was the first animal taken with my .44, it was at about 70 yards and didn't take a step. The barnes billets did there job extremely well and are all I shoot out of it.

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Underwood ammo makes hell of a loading for the .44 mag.

340 grain +P+ Lead flat nose.
1533 ft/lbs

That's just out of a Redhawk. From a rifle they would smack the crap out of a deer or elk.

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I think I want some. Off of the normal kick of those revolvers, damn that would be fun.

Price isn't too bad either. $25 for 20 in stock. Underwood is the place to go for serious ammo. Heck they have 9mm 115 grain that's doing 501 ft/lbs.

Also little overkill but I like them for my revolver, if you do go with 44mag the Hornady ballistic tip rounds are awesome.

http://m.hornady.com/store/44-Mag-225-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/

I will say when I had a Henry 30-30 it did not like the Hornady levereevolution and my rossi doesn't like them either. Feeding issues on both, shoots fine just didn't cycle well or at all through them.

I assume he owns no handguns in any of the calibers mentioned?

Well that's a bummer. I like the round, but to bad it doesn't feed well. That's good to know

I guess a lot of 44mag guns are really picky. I was shooting a guys Deagle (because why not) it was super picky though.

Just because any lever thread is a good excuse to brag:

I'm a big fan of my Marlin 1894c and Ruger Blackhawk combo in .357.

Fine looking combo you have there, as for picky ammo the rossi will eat everything except the flex tip hornadys. It is hard to be a good lever gun matched with a revolver of the same caliber. I really do want a Uberti '73 in .45 LC and a colt peace maker to match it.

Probably not the answer you're looking for but I'd go .30-.30 lever or .45-70 Henry and leave the pistol calibers to a pistol - there id probably go .357 or .44 mag

If I was in Alaska and carrying for a reason and not shooting for fun, I'd definately go the above route. Maybe 30-30 lever gun and .44mag revolver - the .30-30 has more energy at 200yds than the .44mag

And .45-70 in Alaska (with a wood stock no less) is a classic!

Also check out Chuck Hawks extensive write up in pistol cartridge rifles - worth the read if you're into ballistics

At 200 yards the Underwood .44 mag load I posted has more energy out of a 20" rifle than an average 30-30 load in 24" barrel.

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At 200 yards the Underwood .44 mag load I posted has more energy out of a 20" rifle than an average 30-30 load in 24" barrel.

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In a Henry Big Boy with a 1:38 twist?

Elmer Keith would argue the statement that a .357 is better than a 44 mag, and since he developed both rounds I'd tend to side with him. He's documented kills on bull elk at various distances up to 600 yards from a handgun. Do your homework, a 44 mag is way more effective from various ranges and sizes of animal.

Henry is a fine weapon, I own two of the modern run lever action rifles and numerous 19th century rimfires that my father collected, along with Sharps and Spencers and Pre '68 Winchesters.

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I really do want a Uberti '73 in .45 LC and a colt peace maker to match it.

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My primo has an uberti 73 in 45 colt... you won't be disappointed. I don't think they have any problems now but the 73 action was designed for a tapered case instead of a straight wall revolver case and had to modify the feeding some. I think the cowboy action guys still use .44-40 for that reason.

I'd also be concerned using buffalo bore ammo on a regular basis.

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I assume he owns no handguns in any of the calibers mentioned?

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Correct. Matching the two with the same ammo doesn't seem to be a reason. But I can tell you that if he goes .357 I will be in his ear about matching it with a SAA

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Elmer Keith would argue the statement that a .357 is better than a 44 mag, and since he developed both rounds I'd tend to side with him. He's documented kills on bull elk at various distances up to 600 yards from a handgun. Do your homework, a 44 mag is way more effective from various ranges and sizes of animal.

Henry is a fine weapon, I own two of the modern run lever action rifles and numerous 19th century rimfires that my father collected, along with Sharps and Spencers and Pre '68 Winchesters.

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If you are talking about handloads, I would agree with you. But I didnt got the impression from agalaska that his relative will be delving into the dark recesses of the mind of Elmer Keith.

Looking at this on another thread, I was surprised to see that a .357 out of a 16" barrel has almost the same trajectory as a .44 out of a 20" barrel. With the same barrel length of 16", the .357 carries a little better, especially with the 158 and 180 grain projectiles.

In the end, it is probably a wash on that aspect. Gotta admit i never would have guessed it to be that way. But on the practical side, .357 generally has more off the shelf offerings in your local stores, and you can plink around with .38's all day and not break the bank, your hearing or your shoulder, so my vote still goes that way.

I too want a Uberti '73 in various calibers. Best looking lever ever made in my feeble mind. Henry makes a nice one too.

I would also push for the 45-70 for his use.

I'd buy a Henry in a heartbeat - it's on my list and on the right day and right price I'm buying - so I've got nothing against a Henry. I've even spoken with them about .the 44mag in particular over the phone

Only note I'd add is they they have a 1:38 twist and the .44mag is tested and chambered for 260 +P max (IIRC the .45LC is 270gr ?). In their words "it's safe at 260 +P max"

big +P stuff will often be accompanied with a caution that those loads are tested for specific firearms - Henry is not listed by Underwood

And the .30-30/44mag comparison @200 yds was for standard factory loads in the 150-240 range give or take don't remember exactly - but I could be corrected - even Chuck Hawks website shows different data in their tables vs some of their tests for specific loads

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He's documented kills on bull elk at various distances up to 600 yards from a handgun

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I would like to see the story/link on that. Not that I don't believe it but would like to see the details, especially what kind of handgun/barrel was used.

I have his hardback book Six Guns, grandfather gave it to me and I read many of his hunting stories in the back of it. Cant say I remember a 600 yard handgun shot but I do remember several 300+ shots on elk and mule deer. If I am not mistaken Kieth liked to use S&W and was a pioneer/developer on several of there firearms, one being my S&W model 57 in .41 mag.

Here is a link to the article:

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=34

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Here ya go bud

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I am embarrassed to admit it but I thought this was neat when it came out.

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He's documented kills on bull elk at various distances up to 600 yards from a handgun

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I would like to see the story/link on that. Not that I don't believe it but would like to see the details, especially what kind of handgun/barrel was used.

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"Keith, An Autobiography", Winchester Press, 1974 -Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 73-78837