Guess I worded that wrong as in effects of temperature, when it doesn't affect 4350 as much as it would others, temp affects so many other things that in the end are often compensated by changing loads, but not going to dwell on that or beat that horse, but I will say remember there is tiny changes that have big effects at extreme ranges and leave it at that.

On the other note once you've decided on your load then COL is your next step to "See it to the end". Just be as methodical as possible, and I would suggest continuing with the Chrono and logging everything precisely. I cannot stress that enough, data is crucial. When you start getting close, on COAL, don't hesitate to split the difference and really tune it in. I will again say I'd be more comfortable especially when you get into the fine tuning aspect, 300 yds will be more in your favor, when your overall goal is 1000 and beyond. It's a process.

I have gone to extremes in tuning cases through honing, to get neck thickness consistent, and control spacing and tension on the bullet to four decimal points. Any little thing to gain control of variable, to keep them as close as possible. Some laugh at it, but then see shots at ultra extremes beyond 2500 and it all starts making sense. Obviously you aren't going to be doing this with your 6.5, but it's all still a process that works. The list of things I do on what I call my AT&T loads, would drive most people nuts.

Shag is giving you solid dope so soak it all up and work your craft.

quote:

---

Guess I worded that wrong as in effects of temperature, when it doesn't affect 4350 as much as it would others, temp affects so many other things that in the end are often compensated by changing loads, but not going to dwell on that or beat that horse, but I will say remember there is tiny changes that have big effects at extreme ranges and leave it at that.

On the other note once you've decided on your load then COL is your next step to "See it to the end". Just be as methodical as possible, and I would suggest continuing with the Chrono and logging everything precisely. I cannot stress that enough, data is crucial. When you start getting close, on COAL, don't hesitate to split the difference and really tune it in. I will again say I'd be more comfortable especially when you get into the fine tuning aspect, 300 yds will be more in your favor, when your overall goal is 1000 and beyond. It's a process.

I have gone to extremes in tuning cases through honing, to get neck thickness consistent, and control spacing and tension on the bullet to four decimal points. Any little thing to gain control of variable, to keep them as close as possible. Some laugh at it, but then see shots at ultra extremes beyond 2500 and it all starts making sense. Obviously you aren't going to be doing this with your 6.5, but it's all still a process that works. The list of things I do on what I call my AT&T loads, would drive most people nuts.

Shag is giving you solid dope so soak it all up and work your craft.

---

Maybe for another thread or a PM, but I would like to know what other effects temperature would have on internal ballistics.

I try to keep tabs on powder temperature, and have more or less ruled it out as a factor for the H4350 powder.

In my 300 Win Mag, I use RL22, and temperature is a huge factor, so much, in fact, my next project is to find a Hodgdon Powder (probably H1000) to replace it.

With the RL22, I can vary the velocity 100+ FPS just by shooting a cartridge quickly or letting it 'cook' in the hot chamber for a minute.

are you shooting off a sled, or are you using bags? I just keep seeing flyers in all your loads. Only group with the least vertical deviation with Hornady 140gr is 42.4 gr. You need a group with 42.1's horizontal deviation. 43.6 looked good too except for that 1 flyer.

I'd test between 43.3 and 43.6, then play with ogive length off the lands. Outside of magazine restrictions or pistol rounds, I generally despise the COAL term. It is of little use in rifles.

You really are getting beyond the OCW now and into the actual load where you are shooting for groups with very small incremental changes in powder charge. I'd personally load everything up, then have somebody (wife, kid, buddy, etc.) write a number on each case corresponding to the charge weight:

Example:
43.2 - #5
43.3 - #2
43.4 - #1
43.5 - #6
43.6 - #3
43.7 - #4

But have them randomize it and don't let you know what number corresponds to what charge. Have them randomly put them in your ammo box. When you are at the range, pull one at a time and shoot at corresponding targets based on the number. Do your normal shooting - cool the barrel X number of minutes between each shot, every Y shots run a bore snake then fire a fouling round, etc. After you have completed your shooting, compare groups and find out what group was what charge weight.

This sounds silly, but it eliminates subconcious favoritism when you are shooting and is about as good as you can get for keeping things as clinical as you can. If you think in the back of your head that 43.5 is the load your rifle will like, and you know that is what you are shooting, you will - whether you realize it or not - ultimately play favorites over another charge weight, and that can give you false information.

Remember, off the lands is not always the answer. I'd start with about .02" off the lands, and increment progressively closer to the lands in .005" increments, up to and including about .002" or so into the lands. You will find the sweet spot, it just sometimes takes time.

4350 should not be all that affected by temperature. But look into other powders as well if you ultimately can't obtain the results you are looking for. I don't know what powders are the 6.5 powders as I don't own a 6.5, but i guarantee you there is more than one out there.

quote:

---

I'd test between 43.3 and 43.6, then play with ogive length off the lands. Outside of magazine restrictions or pistol rounds, I generally despise the COAL term. It is of little use in rifles.

---

I agree, and I use the bullet comparators to get my actual measurements, but since the OP was speaking in terms of COAL, I just adapted as such.

final loads will actually vary ever so slightly in COAL, but the O-give measurement will be consistent, because your die seats the bullets on the O-give, not the tip of the bullet.

What Chronos do you guys rec?

CEDII and the Oehler 35 are the two good ones...

Magneeto speed!!!

Here is my e-mail. Shoot me your contact info and I would be happy to send some over.

jwendel02 yahoo.com

I use a Magnetospeed and love it. Easy setup and appears to be very accurate.

Been eyeing that, I'd use it more, since you don't have to wait for a cease fire at the range to adjust it.

My only issue with the Magneetospeed is that is mounts to the barrel and affects the POI.

Gwellis, I have not tested POI with and without the magnetospeed. It may but it is extremely light, and I mount it to the supressor. I understand, even that can affect POI. I don't do load developement with it, I find my load and then shoot that load over the magnetospeed to get that data.

so... how'd it go '72?

Was hoping this thread might stick around, lot's of good stuff going on in here.

I sent 72 some other bullets to try as well. I am hoping he updates us with his results.

Hey guys, sorry it took a while to get back to this. I have been in Purmela with all my college buddies for our annual shoot it up, play poker, drink home-brew, weekend. I spent all that time busting trying to get load developement done so I could take it to Purmela for the weekend. We were going to shoot the coveted 1K yards. Guess what....I forgot my ammo sitting on my reloading bench.

It wasn't a total loss though, I shot my buddies 308 and hit 4/4 inside an 18" circle at 1000 yards. We also do a lot of pistol shooting. We have a nice range set up with lot's of AR500 steel and a shoot house. I set a Personal best this weekend on draw from holster with shot on target. Here is the picture proof.



Now on to what you were really asking about...
So from the new OCW test I ran on and posted results on 2/2, I determined that my OCW was between 43.3 and 43.6 so I loaded up 50 rounds at 43.5 COL 2.800. I am going to shoot through those for practice and testing. I have ordered all the parts from Hornady to test my distance to lands. After I get that done, I will start adjusting my distance to lands to find my sweet spot.

It has been a fun process, and thanks to y'all I have learned a TON! Will keep y'all updated as I move forward.

he has to at least know a little to have answered all of this. wow.

quote:

---

he has to at least know a little to have answered all of this. wow.

---

He may know something, or he copied and pasted '72's posts to another board somewhere and then copied and pasted the answers here, passing them off as his own. Wouldn't shock me if that were the case.

I am curious to see how the load testing is coming.