I am in my second year of using Sendero on mesquite and very happy with results. It seems a little better than the old Reclaim/Remedy mix.

I am happy with the mesquites near oaks...mesquites are dead with no noticeable damage to the oaks.

I have noticed that Lotebush appears dead after being sprayed with Sendero. I hope it kills it and it doesn't sprout back next year. Does anyone else have Lotebush problems/solutions? For those that want to know, lotebush is a nasty, thorny bush with fairly hard wood and infests my fencelines. It normally grows to about 8 ft tall and diameter.

Persimmons.... are trying to take over any newly cleared fencelines. I started using Surmount this week (picloram + flouroxypyr). This is my first time to use it and I hope it is going to work on persimmon. I am spraying only persimmon and cactus with the Surmount.

Any comments or experiences are welcome. This is my first experience with picloram and I intend to be extremely careful and selective with it.

So what is your recipe with sendero on mesquite?

My experience with persimmon is that it's fairly easy to kill. Any product with picloram should at least knock it back. When I have sprayed typically it is in pasture. I usually spray with a tank mix of Grazon P+D or Weedmaster (Dicamba) along with some Remedy added for brush and vines. The Remedy really helps on the persimmon and other brush/trees. You will often get some re-growth the next year especially on pastures that have been shredded a lot because the woody plants develop deep root systems and have inadequate foliage to carry the chemical into the entire root system. As for fence rows, I typically use a recipe of Remedy and Tordon 22K & 2-4D ( or Grazon P+D )with good results. Usually have to spray a couple of years maybe three before getting "complete" control and then every 2-3 years for maintenance.
Edited to add that I'm in East Texas and may have different experiences and results that in other parts of the state but the effect on persimmon should be similar.

[This message has been edited by PabloEsteban87 (edited 7/3/2014 12:05p).]

This one: http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDAS/dh_089c/0901b8038089c5e5.pdf?filepath=range/pdfs/noreg/010-58107.pdf

For me it is 48 oz Sendero and 64 oz MSO in a 50 gallon sprayer on the back of a small tractor.

Also, this year I am getting MSO (methylated seed oil) from online. I am using MES-100 by Drexel. The local businesses (Helena Chemical and feed stores) have okay prices but just way too high on the surfactant.

I always used my own soap mix for a surfactant until I started using Sendero. The Sendero label seems to insist on using MSO. I am not going to chance wasting $$$ of Sendero because I did not use MSO as per the label instructions.

You're cutting and spraying persimmon while I'm paying to plant it.

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You're cutting and spraying persimmon while I'm paying to plant it.

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Got a gallon jug full of persimmon seeds sitting on my porch. Who knows if I'll actually get any to sprout though.

Pablo is nails.

Pablo, do you ever add a surfactant to the mix? I usually add some dish soap, but I'm not sure if it helps or not.

The only advice I can give is to stay after it with annual sprayings. You will never get 100% kill, but if you keep after it, grasses will eventually take over, and that will provide the shade to keep brush from sprouting. Thus, you should have to spray less and less every year until you hit a point that it just becomes an annual maintenance.
Another important thing is not to cut what you've sprayed. Let Mother Nature knock it over when it is good and dead.
Lite bush can be a pain to get rid of because it has so much leaf, and you have to spray every one. Just keep knocking it back, and you will eventually get it. Persimmon is also very persistent, and the biggest problem with killing persimmon is that there will be small sprouts near the ground that you never see. They don't get sprayed, and they survive. But like above, if you stay on top of things, you will eventually get it under control.

[This message has been edited by HTownAg98 (edited 7/3/2014 1:05p).]

haha...I actually like the persimmon plant. The bark is white or light gray and smooth like a crepe myrtle. The leaves do not have sharp edges. (yes you could wipe with it if the need arises) And I have been eating the fruit in the pasture during summers since I was a kid. They taste like prunes. Overall it is easy to work with and chainsaws very easily too.

The problem is that it just grows so well around here that it takes over, especially after I have sprayed the mesquites or other competition. Fencelines that I just cleared and rebuilt this past winter already have one foot tall sprouts. I never cared about this until this past year when I had to work my butt off to remove brush before being able to rebuild a barbed wire fence.

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do you ever add a surfactant to the mix?

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Absolutely. As Allen pointed out there is no point in saving a few cents on surfactant after you have spent that kind of money on chemical. Most of the time I use a surfactant from Red River(?) because of price and local availability. I put a gallon to a 300 gallon sprayer. My price per acre for spray is usually $10 and up depending on rate of chemicals per acre and what I'm spraying. The surfactant adds about $1/ac so I think that's cheap. Dish soap may help some but the minimal savings just isn't worth the risk of possibly limiting the effectiveness of your efforts.

Everything HTownAg said is correct especially about not cutting/mowing what you've sprayed even though it looks dead. Learned this lesson years ago after spending major$$$$$$$$$ to spray a large brush and weed covered property. Landowners that I leased from at the time stipulated that annual mowing was a requirement so after spraying in the spring I mowed in the fall. It looked dead but a lot of it wasn't killed thoroughly. So, got more re-growth the following year. Lesson learned. Have been told that 12 months after spraying before cutting or just leave it alone and let nature take care of it.

We'be sprayed sendero only w/surfactant on mesquites with good results. Probably will add some remedy/surmount to kill pear next time... I'm sure it will have to be something that won't burn the leaves off the mesquite, so picloram may be out.

Even basal sprayed mesquites shouldn't be mowed. They will seize the opportunity to grow new growth not contaminated by pesticide, and pump nutrients to the root without moving active ingredient in to kill it.

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Lite bush can be a pain to get rid of because it has so much leaf, and you have to spray every one

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assuming your spell check doesn't like lotebush (lite bush) ... I had that problem too.

Anyway, I see what you mean. I went back to the ones I sprayed so far and sure enough almost every one has a few green leaves in the middle of the bush where the spray could not penetrate. So I sprayed all of those areas.

I saw two large rattlesnakes in the past two days. Even though I am up on that little tractor seat, they still startle me.

Okay... Checking my progress yesterday... Mesquite and Lotebush are both dried up from Sendero application.... excellent!

All other brush except Texas Persimmon are dried up from Surmount application.

The only thing still left is the Texas Persimmon which is still thriving after an application of Surmount (in its weakest suggested concentration which matches the mixture for cactus).

However, I am finding some dead Texas Persimmons in a fenceline where I think I sprayed Roundup as a test last year... but not sure. I am going to mix a small batch of Roundup and actually mark a couple of bushes this time to see how it works. I don't like this as much because Roundup kills good things too.

I think some previous posts were referring to common Persimmon being easy to kill. We don't have that bush in central Texas.

The only significant plants I have left in fencelines are Texas Persimmon, Agarito, and Hackberry... all of which I can work with if I never kill those.

I would take out the hackberry. If you don't do it now, they will fall in 20 years and take your fence out then. I guess it depends how long you expect to own the place and expect the fence to last.

Allen and others -

I did a ton of ATV demand pump spraying about 15 years ago when Remedy became popular and price came down just a little bit. We mixed it with diesel and applied via foliage or basal spray. It was lethal when mixed in this manner and as long as careful, didn't seem to affect oak or other trees, although I gave those trees a very wide birth - 25 yards or so.

From reading this post, couldn't tell what everyone is using to dilute your Remedy/Sendero? Is diesel still used and if not, is it because of cost of diesel now as compared to 15 years ago, regulations, effectiveness? Thanks I'll hang up and listen.

Bump for the late night and morning crowd....

I've used both the Remedy/diesel mix as well as the Sendero/water/adjuvant sprays. For mesquite and most acacias, the Sendero mix works well. The Remedy/diesel basal treatment kills almost everything. I just basal treated some Guayacan...the foliar treatments don't work well on that plant.
The nice part about the Remedy /diesel treatment is you can do that most anytime of the year and it be effective. Most of the foliar mixes are fairly time sensitive and condition sensitive.

Guayacan... that one is like Seans persimmon. You are trying to get rid of it and I would like to have more of them. I don't have many and the deer love it. It is pretty worthless to cattle. The deer stop by a Guayacan and just hang out, nibbling on the tiny green leaves.

Yeah, Sendero...foliar app. with water. For me I haven't done basal app. with diesel in a very long time. But like Brush Country Ag if I had the energy to spray mesquites in the winter time I would have to do it that way (diesel/basal application).

Dr Boogs...I just read your post a little closer.

For foliar applications only the water mixture is recommended.

For basal applications only the diesel mixture is recommended.

On a side note, you can spray the leaves of a plant with diesel and it will turn brown and appear dead, and it may even die. But if it is a mesquite there is a good chance it will sprout back. With that thought, your foliar application with water should be mixed no stronger than the recommended strength in the instructions because you want that plant to live long enough to soak up the "poison" into it's vascular system and eventually die from it. If you knock off the leaves with something strong like diesel, gasoline, or too-strong herbicide, it has a chance to sprout back maybe even in a year or two. You can eventually kill plants that way, but it is much more efficient to mix according to the label and get maybe a 90 percent kill instead of 20 percent.

Only Guayacan in the fenceline...BUT, it really doesnt grow large enough to hurt the fence, just makes it look "cluttered". Will leave almost all of the native brush species in the pasture alone, including the big mesquite....shade is a premium for all living things down here !!!

So tell me more about Sendero as a replacement for Remedy/Reclaim. I hear it costs about $30/ac to broadcast. Is that about right?

How well do you think it would work in a wide arc sprayer (cluster nozzle). Is it like a typical foliar spray where you have to get the entire plant? Some mesquites may be too tall to reach the tops.

I don't know prices for broadcast per acre. I only spot spray.
Sendero is $133.00 per gallon at Helena Chemical so about $1.03 per oz.
MSO purchased online including freight is about .42 cents per oz.

In a 50 gallon sprayer, I use 48 oz of Sendero for about $50.00, and 64 oz MSO for about $27.00 for a total of about $77.00 for 50 gallons of spray or $1.54 per gallon.

I no longer remember the prices of Reclaim/Remedy. The Sendero label insists on the MSO so I dont mix cheap dish soap any more either. MSO at Helena Chemical was about twice the price of MES-100 online.

I do remember the first time I bought Sendero that the final product was cheaper than mixing the Reclaim and Remedy, but prices could have changed since then.

And yes, you have to get every leaf just like the Remedy/Reclaim foliar application.

[This message has been edited by Allen76 (edited 7/16/2014 8:37a).]

Allen and all - thanks for the great posts. So it sounds like if you are working a pasture with small mesquite that aren't taller than 5-6 feet tall, the Sendero mix is the way to go for foliar applications. Advantages - don't have to mix w diesel and is pretty cost competitive when considering cost of remedy/diesel. And of course it's effectiveness when used this way. Cons - you have to spray entire canopy/leaf surface of each plant, which means in thicker areas or with taller trees, Sendero may not be best option (or any foliar application system for that matter).

For pastures with thicker/taller/more long-standing infestations, the remedy/diesel basilar spray is probably still a better choice, since you can't reach the tops of many of these mid-sized mesquite to get complete leaf coverage? Disadvantages - cost of diesel when mixing with remedy.

That sounds about right. I will let the wind help me on thick stands. There is a big difference in the pressure of my tractor PTO driven pump sprayer and an ATV mounted electric sprayer. The more pressure helps a lot to cover all of the leaves.

Also, sometimes I will physically cut down the taller trunks of a tree and spray the rest. I don't do this very often... only where there are just a couple that are too tall. It is easy just to cut the whole thing down and then wait a year and spray the sprouts the next year.

Well everything is going well... except one thing... the mountain laurel and persimmons are dying but I don't know if it was Sendero or Surmount that is killing them. Both of those die so slowly that it fools me. For the most part I am being very specific.... Sendero for only mesquite and lotebush, and Surmount for everything else, and I also did one tank full of Roundup as a test. But following fencelines and I see the Persimmon still alive, I will spray some of them with whatever I have at the time, thinking I am going to remember what I did.

So because I cannot remember which bush I sprayed with what, I made some signs that say "SENDERO" and some that say "SURMOUNT". Yesterday I sprayed a persimmon and a mountain laurel with Sendero and marked them with a sign.

On my next batch of Surmount I will do the same, and then just be more patient and wait to see which one of the chemicals is working on those two bushes.

I did not know that any of these herbicides would kill a mountain laurel, but one of them is working and I am about to find out which one it is! I don't have a huge problem...probably 200 yards of fenceline overgrown with mountain laurel and can always chainsaw it if necessary. It is such a toxic, bitter smelling bush and they really take over in the steep rocky areas...nothing else grows once they establish.

I'd like to hear the results on the persimmon and mountain laurel. THERY ARE TOUGH TO KILL WITH FOLIAR APPLICATIONS! Cut stump works very well, but really hard on the labor force.

Definitely will post results.

You can google all day on herbicides for Mountain Laurel and Texas Persimmon and not get much. But the Surmount label does list Texas Persimmon, so we shall see.