Figured I try here first . . . Does anyone have any experience with Lawn Maintenance companies that only offer organic weed control, fertilizer, etc? I guess my question is how effective is it compared to like a Trugreen or Scotts? I'm thinking I should atleast educate myself being that I have two kids that play on it daily.

I got a quote from Spriggs Brothers in the DFW area. It seems like they know their stuff but it came across rather pricey...

Why would you want organic-only?

What are you worried about? Fertilizer is not toxic at normal rates. Weed chemicals generally target mechanisms that aren't animal related. That is to say, unless your kids are germinating or photosynthesizing, no worries.

If you use insecticides, don't over-treat, and observe the delay listed on the label.

The biggest problem with yards comes because pesticides are cheap. So homeowners use the old hot rodder's maxim: "If some is good, more is better, and too much is just enough."

Don't do that. Follow the label.

Honestly, the rib is the one that's pro organic. On the surface, it sounds like the best alternative to me-but only if it works really well. I feel like its almost 50% more than what Trugreen is charging me for an annual program.

Its cheaper if you do it. Check you pH level of you soil and water. If your soil is below 6.0 then add lime. If above 7.0 add Gardner's sulfur. Grass loves a pH of 6.5 and if your mixing anything with your water pH needs to be 6.0. Most city water has a pH that real high. Had a guy mix up a lot of weed control and it didn't work. Asked him if he checked his pH and he said no. We checked it and his pH was 12. To bring you water pH down add vinegar. If you have weeds mow twice as much but not short. I would water 1/2 inch then what 90 minutes and water another 1/2 inch. Do this 3 times a month. Use Ringer or Scotts organic lawn fertilizer in the Spring, Fall and Winter.

If you want to prevent weeds organically corn gluten meal works but you got to out out a lot. A good spot treat method is 20% to 30% vinegar. Spray it straight on the weed do not add any water. Citrus oil is another good option.

Burnet, if I had the time, I would absolutely do it myself. However, with two kids (one in diapers) and another on the way, I don't have the time to take a pee!

Roger that. I got 3 kids - 9, 5 and 2. They keep you super busy and its a adventure at times. I like you called around and everything was just expensive. So I started doing it myself and just making the time even though its hard. I do get the neighbors kid to mow when I can't. He only charges $10 and he uses my riding mower. Had my brother and Dad help me install a sprinkler system that's on a timer which helped save time on watering.

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If you want to prevent weeds organically corn gluten meal works

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How?

Never mind, Googled it

Sounds like a waste of money outside a very narrow window. And that's based on the above linked article from a guy who is pro "organic".

[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 3/17/2014 9:20p).]

Iowa St. found that corn gluten has a N-P-K ratio of 9-1-0, or 10% nitrogen by weight. As a weed suppressant, corn gluten acts as a natural "pre-emergent" - it inhibits seed germination by drying out a seed as soon as it cracks open to sprout. These qualities make corn gluten an ideal 'weed n feed' product.

Corn gluten meal works by inhibiting root formation in weeds at the time of germination. It doesn't inhibit roots of mature plants or transplants unless it is used at a very high rate of 80 pounds/1000 sq. ft. or more. Weeds germinate and form a shoot, but no root, which prevents growth. A short drying period is required after germination, because too much water may allow the plants to recover and form roots.

Thanks for your response, you may want to read the article. It links to a guy who is apparently a guru in that way of thinking.

And "drying out" isn't the mode of action. And the fertility doesn't have anything to do with killing weeds. If anything, it helps emerged weeds to grow.

Here are some basic corn gluten tips. Like any organic product cost more than tradtional weed control like Scotts Bonus S.

Coverage depends on which form of corn gluten you're using, so read the package for accurate application. In general, however, corn gluten is applied at 20 - 100 lbs per 1500sq ft. For best results, it should be twice a year in spring and fall.

• Corn gluten will not work until wetted, so wet it down using a fine soft spray after applying.

• One application effectively supresses weeds for 4 - 6 weeks. Timing is essential in the use of corn gluten meal. It must be applied before the targeted weed emerges above the soil. Since a drying period is required after application, you should make sure no rain is forecast for a few days after application. Heavy soils, protracted rainy weather may reduce its effectiveness.

By the way, the active ingredient is a peptide, not the n-p-k.

I was talking about NPK rating (or N-P-K) is used to label fertilizer based on the relative content of the chemical elements nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), and potassium (K) that are commonly used in fertilizers, in this case corn gluten meal. The N value is the percentage of elemental nitrogen by weight in the fertilizer. The values for P and K represent the amount of oxide in the form of P2O5 and K2O that would be present in the fertilizer if all the elemental phosphorus and potassium were oxidized into these forms.

What part of N-P-K is not the active herbicide did you miss?

And thank you, I must have missed all that info when I got my Agronomy degree.



[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 3/17/2014 10:46p).]

Not disputing what your saying or calling you out. Was just clairifing what that means, that's all.

Whoa; NPK? herbicide? Guys I have no clue what any of this jargon means. I was just wondering if the organic stuff makes my yard green and weed free or is it better to do the chemical thing?

At this point, my yard looks like sh-t and I need to make a decision.

I've read through this cursorily and not seen the term 2,4-D mentioned even once!

I was impressed by how well it prevented the winter weeds in my yard.

Honest answer. Boadog,

At this point if your yard looks bad it is better to go with the chemicals. Give it two or three seasons. And then once your yard is in better shape start slowly transitioning into organic if you choose.

You will have better faster results with non organic methods. The organic stuff works but can be very difficult and expensive to achieve desired results if the foundation isn't already there.

You have nothing to worry about with the chemicals as far as safety as long as the label is followed appropriately

[This message has been edited by Seven (edited 3/18/2014 8:28p).]

I have an agronomy degree as well. I am completely organic with my yard and gardens (ornamental and fruit/vegetable). Going organic doesn't have to be expensive, there are plenty of alternatives to the expensive "hipster" organic fertilizers (for example, instead of paying $40 for a 40 lb bag of organic fertilizer, you can go to the co-op and buy a 50 lb bag of soybean meal for anywhere from $15-$25, or you could buy a bag of pelletized horse feed for less than that and it'll feed your lawn just fine). I don't really have time to get into right now but I'll revisit later, but here's the bottom line....you want a healthy lawn? The most important thing is your soil and the microbiology therein.

As someone mentioned earlier, organic takes longer to get the desired results because you have to build up the necessary populations of the components of the soil food web. But once you get to that point, you'll be using less of everything and less often with a lawn that is healthy which in turn means less opportunity for weeds and diseases to get a foothold.

Oh, and expect to get blow back from this board on going organic. At least that's been my experience.

Beer Leg, there are definitely some folks who like to preach about how stupid organic is. They don't seem content to let everyone do as they wish, but feel the need to lecture. I just ignore them and go about doing what I feel is best.

I have used both organic and non organic. Depending on the nature of the job I'll use what best fits the needs at hand. At home we try to stay organic since our yard is in good shape and dose not really require a lot of work. At the ranch is a different story. Always battling weeds, cedars, cactus, and other things. So I use non organic approach to control these issues. I'm not some green advocate but there are some good organic solutions out there that work and can be cost effective. There are also a lot of good non organic solutions as well.

Burnet, I don't disagree with anything you just wrote.

Just throw a chit load of medina on it and you'll have the best lawn in town...no pun intended. But you can't go wrong with turkey poo and molasses.

[This message has been edited by Chetos (edited 3/18/2014 1:10p).]

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THIS..FOR REAL!!

BoDog, look into www.soilsalive. They take care of my yard and my two sons can play in the yard as soon as it dries. And my grass looks great and takes less water.

Ask the Agronomist(TM) says....

Lots of good info here. Her is my 2 cents:

Fertilizer- the organics are in many ways superior to the chemical fertilizers. By nature, they are slow release, but above all, since the good ones contain some form of manure compost, they provide micronutrients lacking in most chemical fertilizers. I am convinced that half the time the lack of a dark green color in many Texas lawns is not a lack of N-P-K, but micros like Zn, Fe, Mn, etc..... I use 90% organics on my lawn in the form of compost and products such as "Texas-T", but I will put on a tiny rate of straight N on occasion.

Weed control- here is where I part ways with many in the organic crowd. Corn gluten meal does work as a PRE-EMERGE, but I have never seen the 4-6 week residual others have. Most Ag universities would agree. It just breaks down too quickly in our climate. Vinegar and orange oil will SMOKE annual weeds (brown in a couple of hours in hot weather), but it will not kill perennials like dollar weed, dallisgrass, etc....without repeated treatments. It is also non selective - it smokes what it touches.

Fungicides- whole ground cornmeal works very well if you start at the first sign of trouble

Insecticides - lots of stuff here, and lots of it works

My bottom line to someone starting out is to go with the organic fertilizer, and if you have lots of weeds, go inorganic until they are under control. After that, a good organic fertility program and thick, healthy grass will keep them in check.

nm

[This message has been edited by RealTalk (edited 3/18/2014 3:29p).]

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Just throw a chit load of medina on it and you'll have the best lawn in town...no pun intended. But you can't go wrong with turkey poo and molasses.

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Medina? What are you referring to here?

What kind of ratio of orange oil to vinegar would one use to selectively kill grass weeds?

I use pickling vinegar. You can get it at any grocery store. It's 9% acetic acid vs the 5% of "regular" vinegar...so more burning power. I pour the whole gallon, undiluted into my sprayer, mix in 1 to 2 teaspoons of orange oil, and I use a little bit of clove oil too (probably about 1/2 a teaspoon). Work like a charm on annuals (like B-1 stated) and on quite a few perennials too. Bermudagrass just laughs at it though. GD I hate bermudagrass.

I do for every 1 gallon of 20% or 30% vinegar add 1 cup of orange or citruis oil. I use a pump sprayer. Just be sure to rinse out your sprayer with water so it doesn't corrode when your done. Also like previous poster said be careful applying next to stuff you don't want killed. Also try to apply it during the day with at least a temp of 78F or higher. Also if it has rained like the day before don't put it out or if its going to rain within 24 hours don't put it out. 1 treatment will smoke young dandelions but older well established ones I have found that you might need to treat 3 to 6 times.

Be careful with 20% and 30% (holy crap) vinegar. That stuff can blind you and even the fumes are pretty dangerous at that concentration.

Appropriate PPE should be worn when applying 20% or 30% vinegar with orange oil. Usually long sleeve shirt, gloves, pants, boots, safety glasses. I don't wear a mask but one might if smell is to strong.