KHOU TV

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by Associated Press

khou.com

Posted on December 23, 2013 at 9:06 AM

AUSTIN, Texas -- New Texas troopers will be issued lighter pistols that experts say have less recoil and can carry more ammunition.

Department of Public Safety spokesman Tom Vinger said Smith & Wesson M&P 9 mm handguns will be issued to troopers finishing their training in January. Current troopers will be allowed to carry their .357-caliber SIG Sauer pistols while DPS expands availability of the new handgun.

The Austin American-Statesman reported Sunday that the Smith & Wesson handgun can carry 17 rounds, plus one in the chamber. The SIG Sauer carries up to 15 rounds. The Smith & Wesson weighs 24 ounces, compared to 34 ounces for the SIG Sauer.

Sgt. Gary Chandler, who's president of the Department of Public Safety Officers Association, says the Smith & Wesson is a great gun.

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Yep, been a long time in the making. Basically came down to lots and lots of ballistic testing showing a 9mm +p load can have almost as good of performance as a .357 sig round, although slightly less penetration, the bullet retains it's shape better throughout. Other advantages were a pistol that can more easily fit hand sizes, as well as more rounds/less recoil.

Pretty sure APD switched to m&p platform recently too

is there actually a sig sauer pistol with a capacity of 15 in 357 sig?? or did the writer just confuse .357sig to be referring the the caliber and pistol??

APD standardized on the M & P .40. For the last several years cadets were required to purchase same. Just over a year ago the city bought every officer an M & P with their badge number engraved. As a side note, GTs no longer carries the S & W line because they under bid them for the contract.

[This message has been edited by Bpchas2 (edited 12/23/2013 2:16p).]

I believe the 226 can carry 15 rounds standard, but I want to say that DPS uses DAK 229/226's.

[This message has been edited by jabberwalkie09 (edited 12/23/2013 2:09p).]

Believe SAPD also switched to the m&p

Random questions....do cops load JHP or FMJ?

Cops load JHP for a lot of reasons.

Never was a huge fan of the .357 Sig as a LEO weapon. Ammo was very expensive even before the craze and it just never caught on.

Why didn't they switch to XDs?

Because Smith and Wesson made them a better deal.

XDs aren't even in the same league as the M&P. I doubt very seriously that the DPS would trust the lives of its officers and the citizens of Texas to a piece of overpriced Croatian crap.

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I doubt very seriously that the DPS would trust the lives of its officers and the citizens of Texas to a piece of overpriced Croatian crap.

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You have an enormous amount of faith in a government entity.

As far as govt contracts go I think the presence is to the lowest bidder and not the highest quality



That's unless your wife's college buddy builds websites

It was a rhetorical question.

I personally love my XDs but DPS did not even test them on this last go round. It was te M&P only in large part due to the assorted back straps you can use, and the testing began about two years ago.

I can almost bet you it was almost exclusively that S&W had the best deal.

I'm a Smith M&P armorer and I love the Smith, but it wasn't due to its being the best. The XD is basically the same gun, at its basics...

How departments pick guns is vastly different from how you or I would.

A department adopting a new gun says a lot more about the quality of the S&W or Glock rep in the area, the maintenance package and customer service offered, and how much the new company paid for the old trade ins than an actual endorsement of which firearm is the best, most reliable, etc.

So are there going to be a bunch of used sigs on the market soon?

Just recently purchased a XDm 9mm. So far so good. I chose it over Glock and S&W due to research, comfort, 19+1 capacity, complete package, etc.

I honestly believe that at the end of the day, they are all great guns and can get the job done. With this being said, it speaks volumes about the M&P that DPS is going with it. Might have looked harder at it when I was purchasing.

Never heard anyone call Springfields overpriced Croatian crap?

LA County Sheriff is adopting the M&P as well. I think they'll start issuing early next year. Might be a good time to stock up on M&P 17rd mags.

The XD was originally a Croatian design and I think the frames are still made in Croatia, but I'm pretty sure the slides, barrels, etc in the upper half are US made.

The M&P has come a long way from being a slightly better version of the Sigma. It's now a damn nice handgun. The trigger has been improved vastly, and has a tactile reset now. It's nearly as good as some of the Apex drop ins I've felt. The sights are good, the mechanisms are robust. Just wish there wasn't so much polymer in the striker assembly. I'd feel a lot better if it were milled aluminum or something. Also, I don't think the rear and forward housings should come out of the frame. They should be molded in.

Other than that, it's a very well made gun.

Based off of my research and experience (have put 1000 rounds through my XDm), the XDm has an excellent trigger.

Don't really know any knocks on the XDm and haven't heard many on the M&P. May just have a reason to save up and go buy one!

xD is not the same gun primarily because of the grip safety and what it does NOT allow you to do with one-handed manipulations. Karl Rehn (KR Training) discovered this at, I think, the Rogers school when they did an entire day of one-hand manipulations. I would carry an M&P or a Glock, and would shoot an xD for competition, but I wouldn't carry one.

There is a now-pretty-famous self-defense story on arfcom where the the author suspects the grip safety (on a 1911, in that particular case) caused him to not be able to shoot during a gunfight with a bad guy where he was hit in the hand.

A better choice would be this

Great, just as these guns, magazines and their parts were becoming available, something else comes up to clean the shelves. Good thing I got mines already.

Obviously they picked the very best though, as that is what Dubi and Mr. Dubi prefer!

Seriously, I tried the XD when I got my first M&P in '08, and it was a literal toss up for me then. I would pick an XDm if it didn't have that Glock like grip though.

[This message has been edited by nrm02 (edited 1/29/2014 11:29p).]

nrm,

While in general I agree with that and there may very well be some kickbacks etc involved, I can tell you from witnessing some of the testing personally and seeing the ballistics results, the 9mm round being used has only slightly less penetration, and retains it's shape better than the .357 sig. While I have nothing bad to say about the sig or the .357 round, there is a lot of thought that goes through the reasons for switching, and it's actually switching back as DPS used to shoot both 9mm and 45. And the windshield was not the reason for .357 sig, it was the car door test that one over the powers to be for that switch, but in that same test the 9mm round performed admirably in this go round too. I will be the first to find a lot of purchases stupid and unnecessary but this one has been a long time coming and has been thought through.

[This message has been edited by nrm02 (edited 1/29/2014 11:29p).]

Nrm, I do talk to troopers, almost every day. Mostly what I have heard has been pretty positive, and that's saying something given other questionable decisions in the past few years. And those who don't want to change are not being forced to, they can continue carrying their sigs. You will always find groups that love change and groups that don't.

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is there actually a sig sauer pistol with a capacity of 15 in 357 sig?? or did the writer just confuse .357sig to be referring the the caliber and pistol??

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Sig P226 definitely holds 15 rounds of 357 Sig. That is my go to gun and round. I bought mine with the 40 barrel and really like it. After a while I got curious and ordered a 357 Sig barrel. Holy crap. Went from just liking my gun too loving it.

Sure the recoil is different. Definitely snappier and maybe a hair more of a push than the 40. That said it took me less than 2 magazines to get use to. After that boom everything just clicked. I am so much more accurate with the 357 Sig that it isn't even funny.

[This message has been edited by nrm02 (edited 1/29/2014 11:28p).]

This is gonna sound bad but realize the state needs to make an effort to recruit/keep more women in DPS.

The .357 is fine round but not required and the benefit is neglible. The loss of moving to +p is extremely minimal. So much so, I sold my .357 sig about a year ago after looking at the data. The cost is not worth the gain. I am sure the state is saying the thing.

They get reduced cost and a round that more candidates can handle in training/under fire.

That being said, the local S&W rep is getting nice new boat this summer.

Random question - are officers required to use these pistols? Or are they allowed to provide their own weapon in the same caliber?

That varies dept by dept


The requirements might read something like

Has to have a single stack magazine, single action only, and have a hammer, and be of .45 caliber. We'll everybody there is going to be carrying a 1911. There also might be wording about striker fired and etc



[This message has been edited by Fishin Texas Aggie 05 (edited 12/24/2013 9:53a).]