So I've shot a doe and a hog this year so far w/my M1A using Hornady 165 grain w/the ballistic tips. Both shots were right behind the shoulder but the exit wound was in front of the opposite thigh. The doe was at 100 meters give or take and the hog was at 30 meters give or take. The hog died right there but I tracked the doe for a few hundred meters. Both animals were slightly quartering away and moving to my left. Is this an ammo issue or just a weird coincidence? I've shot maybe a dozen deer with this rifle and always had a relatively clean entry/exit wound around the shoulders but I hadn't used this ammo before.

I've heard many instances of the same scenario you describe with Nosler ballistic tips, esp in smaller calibers.

[This message has been edited by str8shot1000 (edited 12/15/2013 9:53p).]

If there is a gripe about ballistic tips, it is that they "blow up" or fragment like you are possibly describing. I have, however used them off and on with good results.

I've used Federal nosler tips in my .270 for the past 10 years or so. I always shoot my deer in the neck and have never had one go more than a few feet. Even if I don't hit the spine, the impact still breaks it. The one time I put one through the chest cavity it was in and out in a straight path and absolutely mulched the heart. I'm a believer in nosler tips.

If you break their neck you don't have to track them.

Might have something to do the velocity, hitting a bone, going through the pigs shield. I prefer bonded bullets, you might give something like an accubond or fusion a try

Second shooter behind the picket fence, no doubt.

Ballistic tips are for varmints. They shred in the internal organs and don't really exit so the hide is intact. If they do exit then the wound track is really funky like happened with your animals.

Use a bonded or expanding copper bullet and proper **** placement on medium game and up for best results. The lead and copper bonded together will create a mushroom shape that crushes as much of the vitals as possible while leaving excellent entry and exit wounds for maximum bleed out. The symmetrical shape of the expanded bullet as well as the lead and copper remaining together usually means a straight path through the body.

Good options are the Barnes copper bullets, Hornady GMX, Nosler Partition, Hornady SST, Nosler AccuBond, Speer Gold Dots, Speer Hot Cor, Swift Scirocco, Federal Fusion, etc.



[This message has been edited by bedofbrass33 (edited 12/15/2013 11:21p).]

I have had great success with Nosler ballistic tips. Most deer that I have shot with them dropped in their tracks. I hunt with a .308 or a 30.06. And, I use 150 gr bullets in both. Have had same success with Federal Premium Trophy Bonded ammo as well.

My brother is an outfitter, and his clients have killed thousands of deer over the last 10-15 years. He has witnessed the best results with ballistic tips. Of course, shot placement is the key.

Shot placement. Too many people try to shoot animals "behind the shoulder" and don't take into consideration the bullet trajectory after it enters. Were they quartering to you or away from you? From your forensics it sounds like they were facing toward you. Sounds like you got guts,liver and maybe lungs. If you look at the anatomy, shoot them in front of the shoulder when they're facing that way. Probably won't get an exit wound with a ballistic tip, but you'll have a lot easier time finding the deer and cleaning it.
The simplest rule of thumb is to line up the vertical crosshair with the front leg (broadside shot)and the horizontal one in the middle of the shoulder. You'll get both shoulders, heart/great vessels and both lungs. There's not enough meat on a shoulder to make any difference. And your not washing rumen contents out of your carcass!

[This message has been edited by NW80 (edited 12/16/2013 6:01a).]

[This message has been edited by NW80 (edited 12/16/2013 6:03a).]

What NW80 said...

Go for a head or neck shot - harder to make, perhaps, but if you miss you'll likely make a clean miss.

In my early hunting days I've shot "behind the shoulder", and with a small, fast caliber (.243), only to have the animal run for hundreds of yards. One was lost in tracking despite a huge initial blood sign.

Hitting behind the shoulder can take out the heart and lungs, yet the animals can still run 40-400 yards before expiring.

Hit the shoulder itself and and it makes the animal physically incapable of running away.

You can also try slower, heavier bullets that don't exit and dump their energy into the target. The calibers aren't flashy or modern, but I've shot deer with an SKS (7.62x39) and a .30-30 and .38-55 (hard to find), and they drop right then and there.

Happy hunting!

Hornady SST has dropped everything I've shot almost instantly with my .25-06 in the shoulder. It took a young sows leg out when I shot her in the ham (multiple shots into a sounder) knocked her down and spun her. Shooting out of a tower I shot a buck low once and hit the heart. There was nothing left of it. Love that ammo with my gun.

ETA entry and exit wounds were on par with shot placement. I nicked the rumen on the last spike because of the shot. He had a good last supper of corn.

[This message has been edited by TXAGChick06 (edited 12/16/2013 7:40a).]

Killed a lot of deer with ballistic tips. Most dont take a step and if they do its not far. Perfect match for smaller Texas deer in a .308.

A buddy of mine shot a mule deer this year with his .270 shooting Hornady Superformance BT shells. The damn bullet hit the front shoulder and didn't even make it into the body cavity to hit any vitals. We cut the bullet out of the crease between the front shoulder and chest area. Will never use BT bullets on big game again. We wouldn't have found that deer if I wouldn't have been watching the hole thing from the top of a Mesa about 1000 yards away. We were able to put him on the wounded deer via cell phone where he could take a second shot into the vitals while it was runnin.

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Go for a head or neck shot - harder to make, perhaps, but if you miss you'll likely make a clean miss.

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Or you blow off their lower jaw, end of their nose, etc. Of course they'll probably run off, so you'll just assume you "missed" but they'll eventually die a horrible death nonetheless.

Nothing wrong with a head or neck shot as long as you're certain you can make it and have the perfect scenario to make it. But just an awful idea to try it assuming it'll be a clean miss if you don't hit it.

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Second shooter behind the picket fence, no doubt.

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underrated conspiracy post

Sean98: Good point about head shots. I have a friend that aims at the crown of the head and claims either hits or clean misses. I personally go for the shoulder - easier shot.

My longest tracking job ever was after a double lung hit with a 45-70 and 350gr Hornady roundnose, my fault, I should have punched the shoulders.

Second longest was a nice buck at 30 yards, heart-lung shot with a 165gr BT out of a 308, and on the same hunt, a 150 lb pig.

If you are concerned about tracking, shoulder shots as mentioned above will do it. As will neck and head shots but that is not my choice.

All other BT shots and the deer and hogs were DRT, 95 gr 243, 130 and 150gr 270WSM, 165gr 308, 140 and 150gr 7-08, 180gr 30-06 and 300WSM.

Were the shots quartering away or quartering towards? With an entrance behind the shoulder and exit at the opposite thigh it would require magical u-turn bullets if it was a quartering away shot.



Assuming it was quartering towards you, I have had that happen once when I did not realize how angled the deer was and hit one lung as planned, but then the bullet continued on to make entrails soup. I now pay more attention on those shots and try to avoid them. Quartering away is much more preferred than quartering towards and a behind the shoulder works on those. If taking a quartering towards shot you have to put it in the front shoulder and have to clear more bone and meat to get to the vitals.




And ballistic tip hunting bullets are different from the ballistic tip varmint bullets. The ballistic tip is not what makes them 'explode', it is more about the actual bullet design than the tip. Although when I hear ballistic tips I too initially think 'exploding' varmint bullets.

[This message has been edited by Biz (edited 12/16/2013 12:52p).]

Thanks for all the information. The deer was quartering towards me but very slightly. No guts were hit. It almost looked like the round traveled down the spine then took a left in front of the rear ham. The hog didn't hit guts either but the force of the exit wound did pull a handful out of the body. I'll pick up some bonded over the weekend. Hopefully I get a chance to try it out.

Make sure you re-zero your rifle with the new ammo.Just because the bullet weight he same doesn't mean they'll print the same.