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Thinking about buying 50-100 acres...

8,669 Views | 68 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by SWCBonfire
Old Jock 1997
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I'm considering the greater Junction or Llano areas. This is a 3-yr plan.

I'll use the land primarily for hunting, four-wheeling, etc., i.e. purely recreational. I may put up a small barn/cabin at some point.

What things should I consider? I'm just starting to research a little but appreciate any tips.
agent-maroon
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http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2285914&forum_id=34&page=&txa=r#r

Not sure if this will help but there might be some useful info in this thread. The replies will focus on Eastern Oklahoma or Colorado if my experience is any indication. Good luck...
SanAntoneAg
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In subdivision or not in subdivision

Electricity

Access to water

Conditions of roads to property

Tax status (Ag or wildlife exempt)

Neighbors and how they use their property (this will help determine potential amount of game in the area.
CapitalFarmCredit
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Contact our professionals at Mason (325) 347-6653 or Sonora (325) 387-2777.

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txaggie02
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For the price of land these days, if you are looking primarily for recreation, I'd stick with a lease. Much, much less hassle. Close the gate at the end of the weekend and you are done.
Rachel 98
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Old Jock, I'm interested in the same info. I'm looking for around 100 acres (if I can afford it) somewhere within 1.5 to maybe 2 hours from Austin. I'm just starting to think through some of the logistics and questions, so will be interested to hear responses!

Rachel
dannyag07
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Purely depends upon the tract as to what use would probably be best. I agree a cattle or hay lease would be the easiest, but may not be feasible. May also need to look into a wildlife exemption.

Minerals, leases, etc. will be a big part of the discussion. Not familiar with the activity in that part of the state.

RM98.... Western Burleson would be within that realm of distance and is generally reasonably priced. What would your purpose be?
HECUBUS
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We just sold our place in
Bend after nine years. It was 95 miles from Austin. Got it when the first born was 3.5 years old and sold it just before he turned 12. That's pretty much the interest span I had growing up, but my parents kept ranching for many more years.
HECUBUS
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If its recreation without a house and not a cash deal, you'll want to make sure there is at least a camper in the loan. That way you can get a second home right off of the mortgage interest. The best deal is having a good neighbor and letting them keep cattle on your place in exchange for taking care of it.
OldCamp
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Buying land just to hunt on is not a good idea.

I spend more per month on my land loan than I used to spend for annual deer lease dues.

Rural land barely keeps up with inflation so it isnt the greatest investment either. (reference TAMU real estate website)

I could be on an awesome South Texas lease for an entire decade for the amount of money that I will pay in interest only throughout the life of my loan.

Im not saying you shouldnt buy land. Owning land is a lifestyle. There are tons of good reasons to buy land. Simply having a place to hunt isnt one of them.

Aggie65
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If you are just starting to look for rural land, this book will be helpful - http://www.amazon.com/Buying-Rural-Texas-Charles-Gilliland/dp/1603447954 . It comes in paperback or Kindle.
HECUBUS
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True. For us, it was a matter of lowering our income taxes to the point where we saved more money in taxes than the cost of both our
mortgages and property taxes. We came out okay after almost nine years, we got enough to get our initial investment back plus we paid off our home in less than ten years and had lots of great outdoors fun on the way.
tmaggies
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Just sold 83 acres near Rocksprings in Comanche Hills....hated selling but tied up with family that did. Best decision I ever did for hunting purposes... it was mine and could do as I pleased and always had a full freezer. Any questions I could answer feel free to ask!
txaggie05
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I'm intrigued by the lease idea for similar use...are y'all just talking standard hunting lease or something else. Never been party to one.
BrazosDog02
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Buying land to live on is totally different than buying land to play on. It is exactly what was posted earlier....a lifestyle. If I didn't want to fully immerse myself in owning a home on acreage, there is no way in hell I would own it. I agree with above, if you just want to play and hunt.....LEASE IT. You can lease a **** ton of land to play on for a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a fraction of it.
schmellba99
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Except with a lease you can get kicked off at the whim of the owner, the owner gets to dictate what you can and cannot do on the lease, you don't get to pass the lease down to your children, and you are paying rent for somebody else.

There are great reasons to lease; there are great reasons to want to own. One is not necessarily better or worse than the other - and you don't need to live on the land to have the ability to enjoy owning it.
tmaggies
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All I can say is we had ours for nine years and more than doubled our money but as I said would rather have kept it.....we were Ag exempt and our cost was less than what a lease would have cost so basically we hunted for free.
CrossBowAg99
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I would look at getting some bids to high fence it. Or buy a 100 acre ranch that is already high fenced.
txaggie01
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Me and my dad just partnered up to purchase 250 ac of recreational land between Concan and Garner and have had it for almost 2 years now. This has been one of the best decisions I have ever made. I was tired of leasing land and having "rules". I wanted my own place where I made the rules.


First of all, I was looking in this specific area because I know land prices have been increasing as more people discover the Frio river and more commercial businesses are popping up. I started looking at land values on real estate websites back when I was in college (and didn't have any money) and continued to watch the prices increase over a 10 year period, until they decreased slightly after 2009. We bought the land in 2011 and got what I felt was a pretty good deal.

The land we bought was raw land (no water or electricity). We have since run a 1,000 ft poly water line to our property from a neighboring subdivision (this was part of our purchase negotiation) and have generators for our campers. Eventually we will run electricity from the same subdivision but it will cost us $20-$25K for the same 1,000 ft distance. Water and electricity alone will be major upgrades to the property and will increase the value.

Our place already had some roads cut to the tops of the hills which was a huge plus for us. We would have had to spend several tens of thousands of dollars to get the roads on the property.

We negotiated some of the mineral rights. At this time, there is no oil field activity in the area, but with the Eagleford stretching up past Carrizo Springs now and the Permian down to Sonora, we felt there may be some benefit in the future.

Our place does not have a perimeter fence, which is not a big deal to us as we do not plan on any livestock.

Our land was already in a Wildlife exemption so we just submitted a Wildlife plan to the Uvalde Co guys to maintain the exemption, so our property taxes are very low, close to $1/ac.

The only main restrictions we have are that we can not subdivide our property for some years, as the subdivision developer did not want us competing with his subdivision. This was not a big deal to us because we do not plan to subdivide it, but we have discussed the possibility if the area really starts to boom.

We use this property year round, not just for hunting. With it being located 1 mile from the Frio, we float the river (when it is floatable) during the summer and hunt during the fall/winter.

I can go on and on, so let me know if you have any questions.
HECUBUS
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Again, for raw land, if its not cash and you do not have your own business operating on it, get a camper mentioned in the loan or whatever it takes to make it a second home mortgage. It could even be a boat with "facilities",
Ducks4brkfast
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"Again, for raw land, if its not cash and you do not have your own business operating on it, get a camper mentioned in the loan or whatever it takes to make it a second home mortgage. It could even be a boat with "facilities","

Is there a formula to determine how much of the interest you can deduct?

In other words, if the property is valued at $100,000 and the camper at $10,000, can you deduct the entire interest paid or just the amount of interest of the $10,000 amount?
HECUBUS
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100%, it's not separated like a loan might be.
BrazosDog02
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quote:
Except with a lease you can get kicked off at the whim of the owner, the owner gets to dictate what you can and cannot do on the lease, you don't get to pass the lease down to your children, and you are paying rent for somebody else.

There are great reasons to lease; there are great reasons to want to own. One is not necessarily better or worse than the other - and you don't need to live on the land to have the ability to enjoy owning it.


Im not sure how much the OP is interested in and how close he needs it to be. If its a small piece of 100-500 acres that's an hour away, then your point is perfectly valid...id buy. If it was more than that, it would depend on cost for me. At some point it becomes nothing more than an expense for a hobby for me, though. Where that point is for the OP, he'll have to decide.
HECUBUS
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Even though I knew this to be true, we had an accountant double check and file our first couple of tax returns. It's the only reason we went ahead with purchasing a property. It's also one of the reasons we sold our place, thinking the second home mortgage might be going away as the government is looking for more tax money.

Always check with your accountant before this kind of purchase. Tax laws change and they tend to know what might be changing in the future.

The only time we ever had an accountant was before purchasing a ranch and the first couple of returns after owning the ranch. Expensive, but worth every penny.

[This message has been edited by HECUBUS (edited 8/15/2013 11:05a).]
SWCBonfire
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If you file schedule F (Profit and Loss from Farming), all mortgage insurance is deductible. You will get a 1098 from your lender stating the amount of interest you paid.

The trick is you have to show a profit "motive" from year to year, you can't just lose money each year and write it off your taxes. There are exceptions for young (under 35 I think) farmers/ranchers starting out on the profit guidelines.
Old Jock 1997
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This has all been great info -- thank you! Keep it coming.

My hope is to buy something that becomes "generational." We live in San Antonio, so I'd like something within 2 hours so it gets used. I'd also like something that my kids will come back to, assuming they live in TX as adults.

A big part of the impetus is that I'd like to live on a bigger piece of land than the neighborhood that I'm in. I can go around the corner and buy a little over an acre for $250K. Or, as my wife has suggested, let's stay in something more modest and buy a bigger piece of land for recreational use. In a neighborhood, I can't hunt, camp, four-wheel, etc., but I can do all of that on something bigger that's more rural that I own.

I'm not looking to make money on the property. In a perfect world, I'd buy it, improve it gradually, and hand it down when I die.

I think a road into and out of would be preferable at the onset. I can see wanting to do electricity and water at some point, as a permanent dwelling would eventually be part of the plan, but this would be down the road.

EDIT: If the next question is, Why don't we just move a little farther out of town, buy 10 acres, and live there? -- the answer is because my kids are settled in their schools and with their friends, and my wife is very happy where we are. While I might love moving farther out, I think it would be more of a stressor on my family, so we aren't pursuing that route at present.

[This message has been edited by Old Jock 1997 (edited 8/15/2013 10:26p).]
SanAntoneAg
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quote:
My hope is to buy something that becomes "generational." We live in San Antonio, so I'd like something within 2 hours so it gets used. I'd also like something that my kids will come back to, assuming they live in TX as adults.

I'm not looking to make money on the property. In a perfect world, I'd buy it, improve it gradually, and hand it down when I die.

I think a road into and out of would be preferable at the onset. I can see wanting to do electricity and water at some point, as a permanent dwelling would eventually be part of the plan, but this would be down the road.

[This message has been edited by Old Jock 1997 (edited 8/15/2013 10:26p).]


This is what we did, but settled for 30 acres because it was what we could afford. It's a 2 hour drive from my driveway here in SA to the cabin. I much prefer having my own place compared to leasing. Our first property purchase had an insulated 10x20 metal Chaparral building that was converted into a cabin. No electricity or well, although we could have used a generator to run a window AC unit, which we never did. Needless to say we had to majorly bundle up when sleeping there in January. We sold the place for another 30 acre tract that has finished out wood frame cabin w/ electricity. Which translates to AC, fridge, etc. An outdoor shower and indoor sink (thanks to an elevated outdoor tank) make it much more comfortable compared to the last place.

As a bonus, we have harvested a wide variety of game (self-imposed limited amounts) over the years.

[This message has been edited by Sanantoneag (edited 8/16/2013 12:08a).]
trip
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I have 640 acres that we use on the weekends. At times it is the best thing. Other times I have to make the drive when I don't want to so we can fix things. We run cattle on it.
Old Jock 1997
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quote:
I have 640 acres that we use on the weekends. At times it is the best thing. Other times I have to make the drive when I don't want to so we can fix things. We run cattle on it.


I'm assuming cattle makes ownership harder, not easier -- is that correct? I'm not talking economics, just more labor intensive. At present, I don't plan to build a small herd, though I would entertain leasing it to a rancher in exchange for fence upkeep, etc.
SanAntoneAg
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Cattle are like lab puppies. They destroy everything. You'll have to rence them out of anything you value.
aggzwin
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100 acres high fenced? now that is what i call hunting...lmao
Old Jock 1997
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quote:
100 acres high fenced? now that is what i call hunting...lmao


Who said anything about high fences?

Was the temptation to change the discussion into something you were hoping to get some drama out of simply too much?
Line1D4
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I'm no expert, but here's my 2 cents, FWIW:

I've been on many hunting leases over the years, including that big ranch just south of Corpus. Unless you're willing to pay an absolute fortune for a high quality long-term lease, you're going to have little control, have to deal with other hunters who might not have the same standards as you, deal with potential poor management practices by the owner/rancher, and run the risk of being booted off for whatever reason. Many leases wind up being as much work as if you were on your own land. Plus, on a lease, you're just throwing your money down the toilet. You get no financial benefit from your hard work managing and improving someone else's place. I got sick and tired of it and bought my own place, where I have total control and everything I do benefits my land. And, in my case, the annual cost is less than some of the leases I was on. To me, there's nothing quite like working on your own land and then, at the end of the day, being able to turn around and look at what you've accomplished to improve your own place.

Owning livestock will add a significant amount of work, expense, and responsibility. Easier to have someone graze their own livestock, but you need to make sure you control how they use and care for your land. I think the wildlife valuation is the way to go, but the land must have had an ag valuation first.

Things to consider when buying land (other than the usual financial/pricing/market issues): water (surface and underground), minerals, water & air rights, utilities, Ag or wildlife tax valuation in place (make sure its in good standing - huge annual savings with this), surface control, quality of neighbors, quality of nearby communities, condition of fences, any existing leases in place, etc, etc.
shiftyandquick
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do bees and get an ag exemption. seems like much less pressure on the land than cattle.
Old Jock 1997
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How are fence issues generally handled between neighboring properties?
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