Anybody shed some light on what pipeline companies might pay for an easement in Brown County. THey are bringing a 20 inch pipe from Colorado City to Houston Ship Channel and it cuts through our place. There is an existing pipeline they are going down beside which is currenty 30 ft wide. They gas company is trying to get 75 ft and I don't know if that is 45 ft in addition to the existing 30 or not. ANy comments?

They are always going to low ball you and the price should be measured in Rods

I would get an atty to help you out. preferably one with experience dealing with oil companies.

This is a common carrier so they have condemnation ability. Talk with competent counsel on this. Increasing the size of the easement is worth some money.

is this a ball park on money?? 1900 linear feet, additional 45 ft = approx 2 acres. Land in this area would appraise at 1600/acre. 2 * 16 = $3200 for the easement....????

do you really think it would appraise for $1,600 per acre?

http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/rland/regions/trlp_region7.pdf

If it is a different pipeline company than the existing pipeline, they will get their own row (the full 75'). They don't share.

It should be more than the going price per acre because it is breaking up your land. Acres is not the correct way to evaluate it because it impacts adjacent acreage future useage and disects your land. Like a previous poster suggested, I think you need a good oil/gas landman type atty.

OP, you're probably selling yourself short at $3,200. There's a myriad of factors that go into right-of-way pricing. Most importantly, you need to get a feel for how easy it is for the pipeline to go around you. They can certainly condemn you before they pay a king's ransom to go around your place, but they don't want to go through the hassle and will most likely you pay a significant amount to avoid it.

I'm not sure about general ROW pricing in Brown County, but I would negotiate it by the linear foot and not surface area. In Texas, ROW can go for less than $1/foot to $50+/foot. Just depends. During the heyday of the Barnett, ROW in Parker County was going for $20-25/foot through condemnation. I wouldn't expect to get that much, but I certainly wouldn't offer up $3200 ($1.68/ft) either.

And just to reiterate what's already been said on this thread - get a local oil & gas lawyer to help you find out the going prices and draft the ROW document. It'll be well worth it.

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and the price should be measured in Rods

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Shouldn't be measured in rods these days unless they are doing it just to try to confuse someone.

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and the price should be measured in Rods

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I represent folks on pipelines coming across their property - when I first started, the companies made offers in feet, then when a baseline was set by landowners on a per-foot basis the companies went to rods...until another baseline was set on a per-rod cost basis...now they are going to acreage. Soon it will be on a hogshead basis. Don't let them take advantage of you - I've got a few in the works right now (West Texas, South Texas and around BCS) and they are really trying to intimidate.

if you'll post your email address i'll send you an article or two on easement valuations.

meant for OP but i'll share with whomever wants it.

rjamizon: I'd like them.

stephen@sbmoonlaw.com

I like ROW's. In Webb county they become a game magnet. Virtually all south Texas wildlife nests/births on "edge". We negotiated $45/foot. A ROW is typically 60' wide. We have them after construction is complete, rip the compacted soil to a depth of 3', disc and seed with native seed as recommended by our biologist at a rate of 1 1/2 times recommended application for the seed, and done at a time of year that best suits the propagation of that seed.

Also, all brush is buried or mulched leaving no piles, and have a gate guard there to at least patrol all ingress and egress, if not 24 hours.

Works for me.

You should really jack with them and base everything off cubits.

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You should really jack with them and base everything off cubits.

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The process for me was on par with buying a used car or negotiating with TxDOT..............unpleasant. They low ball you, they confuse you, and you end up paying money to a competent lawyer.

Furthermore, they cleared a large swath of trees, counter to the specifics of the lease, for an equipment storage area.

That required further legal action when they at first refused to compensate me for the loss of trees. In the end they did compensate me.....but the whole process was BS in my opinion. An acre of 80 yo long leaf pines gone forever. You know how long it takes for a long leaf to grow???? Had we not noticed the illegal clearing of trees when they started......who knows how much land they may have cleared.

Anyway............that's why I have a touch of sympathy for the protesters..........anything to give the pipeline owners a pain in the ass!!

I've represented landowners against pipeline companies in these type of proceedings. Who is the pipeline company? They will most likely contend that you won't have any damages to the remainder because there is an existing pipeline on your property. This is rarely true. You are entitled to a value for whatever land they condemn, plus damages to the remainder of your property.

Y'all need to quit painting the pipeline company as the bad guy. Try don't try to lowball you. They know what the going rate in the area is vs going around you. The harder you are to deal with, the better the chance they go around you. Take it or leave it, it's just a pipeline ROW In a rural area.

Comeby:

Lets think about this. Someone (a private company), comes to your property, the property you worked hard to earn, and offers you chicken scratch to get an easement (not a lease, not a permit) to run a pipeline from which they will make billions of dollars, and if you refuse to accept such offer to run a pipeline across your private property, they will condemn your property using their right of eminent domain. Yes, that's fair.



[This message has been edited by Queso1 (edited 1/14/2013 10:12p).]

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Lets think about this. Someone (a private company), comes to your property, the property you worked hard to earn, and offers you chicken scratch to get an easement (not a lease, not a permit) to run a pipeline from which they will make billions of dollars, and if you refuse to accept such offer to run a pipeline across your private property, they will condemn your property using their right of eminent domain. Yes, that's fair
[This message has been edited by Queso1 (edited 1/14/2013 10:12p).]

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Tell us how hiring you will eliminate the chance that eminent domain is used? You can't.
That being said.....
Only a pipeline utility company can use eminent domain. A private oil and gas company cannot do that, they are bound by the terms of their lease. If you are a surface owner and not a mineral owner, you cannot "reasonably withhold" their right to those minerals. Settle that issue with the mineral owner. What percentage of landowners have eminent domain happen to them? Decimal dust.
The problem with using the word billions is that people just see dollar signs that arent there. Pipelines running across a your strip of property where they make "billions of dollars" are very rare. Please prove me wrong by estimating the volume of hydrocarbons it would take across your strip of land using only the transportation fee.

Most companies are reasonable and try to work with the landowner. They typically try to run along a road of some other out of the way location. I don't know of a single company that's in the business of trying to hose down a landowner. It either makes economic send to run across a landowner or it doesnt. Obviously in your line of business, it's in your best interest to scare landowners and offer to negotiate on their behalf when most of the time you make the matter more complicated than it is and often will cost them more.

Oh and ROW units for pipelines have been in rods nearly since oil was measured in bbls...there's no attempt to be fraudulent.

[This message has been edited by Comeby! (edited 1/14/2013 11:01p).]

queso1,

Let's think about this. A company is investing a large amount of capital in a pipeline for the greater public good and willing to pay you greater than market price for your land just to bury a line and very seldom access the land for maintenance. They don't even keep your land even though they paid more than you could sell it for and you still have access and use of the land. If they can't make a deal with you, laws exist that allow them to condemn your land so that you can't stand in the way of a large project for the benefit of the public. Seems fair to me.


OP, get an attorney or someone who has pipeline negotiation experience. I would guess $80+ per rod (16.5 feet) for a line that size but I'm in west Texas and not familiar with your area. You will want to cover ditching methods, disposal of cleared vegetation, and reclamation of the ROW. It's better for all parties if landowner and pipeline company work together. Nobody wins if it goes to court.

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Nobody wins if it goes to court.

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Well, except attorneys.

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Nobody wins if it goes to court.

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Well, except attorneys.

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Nobody wins if it goes to court.

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Well, except attorneys.

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My experience is that you never see or hear from the pipeline's ROW people after they negotiate the easement and get it signed. They are like land men. When the contractors come out they will do whatever is easiest for them to lay the line and claim they know nothing of specific provisions in the easement to the contrary such as saving topsoil etc. The ROW guy promises you Niagara Falls and then the contractor pisses on you.

Then you need a lawyer to threaten them with an injunction. By the time you get that done they generally have already caused the damages like the previous poster with the long leaf pine trees. They like to ask for for forgiveness instead of permission.

Just make sure you get everything in writing and take lots of pictures before, after and during with the contractor's equipment in them.

Finally the pipeline co. will distance themselves from the actions of the contractor or third party ROW agent in the event of any any problems and want to start anew and have you believe they would have handled it differently as if they don't control and have responsibility for their representatives. Just remind them they had their chance to be upfront the first time.

That's fine. You are entitled to your beliefs, and I am entitled to mine. I see it on a daily basis. But, please don't lump me into a group of ambulance chasers just out for the money - if I just did it for the money I'd be foolish, as there's not much in it.

A lot of my satisfaction comes from helping people.

Comeby...I think if you look at the history of pipelines in Texas a private company can do it quite easily. Since the RRC regulates pipelines all a private company has to do is check a form box that states the line will be a common carrier.....that deems it for the public good.

And, there are ways of protecting a client's property from eminent domain by a pipeline, but it needs to be done well in advance of any lines coming through.


And, they were pricing in feet in 2003. I think oil was sold in barrels then.

[This message has been edited by queso1 (edited 1/15/2013 7:48a).]

Fair enough.

Our leases mostly have ROW priced in rods.

Start at $2 per inch per foot and tell them to double ditch the pipeline. Double ditching means they have to put the topsoil back on top so grass will grow back.

The price I stated is broken down as follows: If the pipe is 6 inch diameter, your starting negotiation would be $12/linear foot. If it is a 30 inch pipe, then it would be $60/linear foot.

Tell them once they meet those terms, your attorney will still have to review the lease. I would not go lower than $2.

Oh yes...tell them you deal in "feet"...NOT acres ! And in your case, a 20 inch pipe should start at $40 / foot.

[This message has been edited by Brush Country Ag (edited 1/15/2013 8:30a).]

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Only a pipeline utility company can use eminent domain. A private oil and gas company cannot do that, they are bound by the terms of their lease. If you are a surface owner and not a mineral owner, you cannot "reasonably withhold" their right to those minerals. Settle that issue with the mineral owner. What percentage of landowners have eminent domain happen to them? Decimal dust.
The problem with using the word billions is that people just see dollar signs that arent there. Pipelines running across a your strip of property where they make "billions of dollars" are very rare. Please prove me wrong by estimating the volume of hydrocarbons it would take across your strip of land using only the transportation fee.

Most companies are reasonable and try to work with the landowner. They typically try to run along a road of some other out of the way location. I don't know of a single company that's in the business of trying to hose down a landowner. It either makes economic send to run across a landowner or it doesnt. Obviously in your line of business, it's in your best interest to scare landowners and offer to negotiate on their behalf when most of the time you make the matter more complicated than it is and often will cost them more.

Oh and ROW units for pipelines have been in rods nearly since oil was measured in bbls...there's no attempt to be fraudulent.

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Not being a landowner, this seems to be a very oversimplified and partially incorrect assessment.

For example, the Keystone Pipeline is a private carrier, but has already enacted eminent domain on several landowners.

I'm not stating that oil companies are big evil, but they aren't cuddly teddy bears either - it's well documented that coercion and the fact that they have deeper pockets than your typical landowner has been used at times in the past. It is probably very uncommon, but not unheard of.

And make no mistake about it - oil companies make beaucoup money with the oil and gas that runs through those pipelines across private property. Without consent of private property owners and government backing via legislation that allows them eminent domain on land where the landowner does not want the pipeline, that product would be considerably more expensive to obtain. A landowner wanting a fair price to enable a company to make large sums of money is not selfish or wrong.

And the idea of "well, it's for the public good" is a double edged sword. That was the entire basis of government for the USSR, and is the entire corner stone of taxes that we all hate. There really should be a very defined and limited set of conditions where "for the public good" can be used.

In South Texas for the Eagle Ford Shale play, easements have for the most part been going for a 1$ per pipeline diameter inch per foot for a 25 foot wide permanent easement. Thus, a 20" pipe is $20 per foot. Thus approx. $330 per rod (16.5 feet)for a 25-foot wide permanent easement. Talk to your neighbors too as most landowners are teaming up together with mutual lawyer(s) so everyone is on the same page. And as far as imminent domain condemnation. If they are going all the way to Houston with that I'd say they are common carriers and have condemnation authority (no one could get a pipe put in all the way from out that way to Houston without it). With there being an existing pipeline easement on your property, it makes the condemnation process much easier because widening of pre-impacted easements versus making all new easements is an easier case to make.