I have had a new younger bull with my small herd (3) of cows for 5 months now and I would like to know if they are pregnant. Just wanted to know what I should expect to pay someone to come out and palpate them. I really do not want to load them up and take them to the clinic or sale barn. Does it need to be a vet or are there "cowboys" out there that will do a good job?

There are plenty of non-vets out there that can palpate, and at 5 months it should be very easy to determine yes/no on pregnancy.

The price would probably be a farm call fee + $20 or so per head. That's about what I paid years ago with show heifers. Our vet wouldn’t charge a farm call fee though because he did not have cattle handling facilities at his clinic so the farm call couldn’t really be avoided.

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There are plenty of non-vets out there that can palpate, and at 5 months it should be very easy to determine yes/no on pregnancy.

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Technically, it's illegal for a non-vet to charge to palpate your cows for you.

How do AI techs get away with charging fees then?

I have had a couple non vets say they do their own but don't want to assume the "liability"?
What liability are they talking about? Getting sued by a veterinarian?

With all the classes they offer, teaching people how to do this, I can't see how it would be illegal for someone to charge for that service.

If that is all someone does, they would most likely be better at it that a vet.

I would like to see the legislation passed in Texas that states it is illegal for someone to put their arm up a cows rear, and charge for it. I bet it doesn't exist.

It may have since changed, but they told us in Animal Science that it was illegal to charge if you weren't a vet.

and $20 seems high, when I was in high school we were charged $2 a head

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but they told us in Animal Science that it was illegal to charge if you weren't a vet

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could they get around this by charging for the call but not the actual service?

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but they told us in Animal Science that it was illegal to charge if you weren't a vet

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could they get around this by charging for the call but not the actual service?

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What would the call consist of besides palpation? It's legal to palpate your own cows, or another's for no charge. The Veterinary Practice Act states just that, only more eloquently I'm sure.

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How do AI techs get away with charging fees then?

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They don't get reported? I'm pretty sure the offense is "Practicing veterinary medicine without a license."

techs may be able to do it under the Vet they work for. Kind of like PT techs or Radiology techs, but I would imagine the the vet is supposed to be present

This is the route I'll be going...tail bleed, $2.50 per sample and much easier.
http://www.biotracking.com/?q=labs/dsdiagnostics

Ask at your local sale barn for a name.
we pay about $10/head.
You may have to pay them a trip charge.

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What would the call consist of besides palpation?

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cost of making the trip...just like a lot of repairmen.

Charge $20 per glove...

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With all the classes they offer, teaching people how to do this, I can't see how it would be illegal for someone to charge for that service.

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It's illegal to charge to cut someone's hair unless you have a license. Government is way to involved.

I would think you could buy a kit and test urine pretty easy.

Just stick your arm up in there... if she's bred, you'll know.

In a related note, I had an uncle that was fond of insisting that one could not correctly palpate a cow unless they could do it and eat a peanut butter & jelly sandwich at the same time...

U can also use bio preg check dot com

You could just watch your bull and not pay anything. I charge about $18 a head for less than 5 - and large herds by the hour. Typically the price someone charges to drive to your place depends on how far they have to drive. approx $50 for less than 10 miles. How are you pens and do you have an alley? I have personally seen the blood test be wrong several times.

And you can get a hillbilly(it is against the law to have someone other than a vet to palpate a cow... the board is too broke and can not pursue the issue) to palpate your cows but how do you really know this person's credentials. You do not know the difference and until it is too late. Most the hillbillies dont really know that they are not good at palpating. I can promise you that most hillbillies can not tell the difference in a mummified fetus and preganancy.

Have you had your bull tested?

That might be the most ridiculous thing I've read here.

The difference in palpating:

Vet: 12 weeks bred
Non-vet: yep, bred

I guess some of us hillbillys will have to just get by.

In my 45 years of running cattle, I have yet to have a cow with a mummified fetus.

And in checking the pregnency, I know when the bull was in with them, so if I can feel the head, nose, etc. then I know she's bred.

If she aborts later,,,,,nothing I can do about it, but take her to sale, if it happens a second time.

Cool band name.

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And in checking the pregnency, I know when the bull was in with them, so if I can feel the head, nose, etc. then I know she's bred.

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So you wait until about 7 months to palpate?

we've had good luck with "hillbillies".
heck some of them even have ultrasound machines!

This is one of those issues that is "technically" illegal, yet rarely enforced. If you as a herd owner feel comfortable allowing a "hillbilly" to palpate and predict pregnancy, and are willing to pay him, then it isn't an issue really. However, said "hillbilly" is actually breaking the law, by practicing veterinary medicine without a license. I know MANY herd owners who have taken classes and palpate their own cattle! The issue here is in my opinion the ability to differentiate different stages of pregnancy. A heavy bred cow is EASY to tell, a mid or early preg can be more difficult as finding the repro tract can be tricky. There is no right or wrong here, just what you individually are willing to pay someone to provide a service. As I always tell folks around here.........you get what you pay for in most cases.

DVM

Beware of hillbillies!

My dad had a couple shoulder surgeries...the direct result of preg-checking cows. Just curious, he thought is was really hard to p-check with his right hand after using his left for so long. Anybody else have that problem. FWIW...he's a DVM.

Watch them for 21 days. It's not that different than what your ol' lady goes through every month if she isn't bred.

Edit: I have had heifers that were bred but continued to have "false heat" every 21 days.

[This message has been edited by EskimoJoe (edited 2/28/2012 3:16p).]

I believe I will start with the preg blood test. I have a squeeze chute and the supplies to collect the blood. Is the false negative the biggest risk here? Is it correlate with how far along the pregnancy could be? I have had the bull in with the cows approx 4-5 months.

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I have personally seen the blood test be wrong several times.

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100% curiosity since I don't know anything about the blood tests... About what percent accuracy would you place it at and roughly how would you rate it with palpating?

Also... Test your bull before you put him out.

There are a bunch of vet type procedures that are done by non vet hillbillies.....dehorning, castration, ET, calf delivery, routine shots, etc.

I can't imagine any producer being able to make money if a real vet had to be used all the time. Vets cost to much.

Whatever you do, make sure you have a loud 5 or 6 yo observe the procedure and go to church about 2 hours later. Then watch in amazement as he tries to tell everyone in church about it.

Not that I might have been that 5 or 6 yo proudly explaining palpating a cow at Big Sandy First Baptist.

accuracy is 98% for testing negative or open and 94% for testing postive- it is not a bad test. Last experience I had with it was a man that bought 4 bred cows according to the test and I palpated/ultrasound to find 2 out of the 4 were open- test runs about $3 a head- we typically charge by the hour to palpate cattle and it comes out to around $4 a head- depending on how fast they are being pushed.

Bovine soundness exam cost around $50 dollars and is not a big investment when considering a missed pregancies and feed

Doc- if you have not felt a mummified fetus you may not be palpating enough or just missing them.

Most hillbillies cant pick up a 12 week pregnancy.

most people that use our services have more than 50 head or sale their cattle to someone other than the salebarn. We also see a lot of sick cattle.

Where is ur clinic?