But sadly I watch them. Particularly this time of the year when I can't drag a bow into a tree for another 22 days.

I was just watching Bucks of Tecomate (man they have awesome deer) and they did their little fireside chat or whatever the hell they call it. Usually they talk about how you should never shoot less than a .416 Rigby for whitetail or you're a p***y. But not today. It was even worse.

The topic was (paraphrase from memory) "Are antiquated game laws preventing landowners from managing 'their' deer?" (thank goodness we avoided any sense of give/take, open discussion and jumped straight into bias)

Then the medicaid fraud dentist (<-- if they don't have to play fair, neither do I) launched into this story about how a well known land owner recently "hedged" the rules because the State of Texas refused to let him kill any/all the deer he wanted. Then stated that the state bag limits were antiquated and that individual landowners should be able to do whatever they want ("although I would never encourage illegal activity".

Hmmmm, so because you're rich you should be able to shoot any/all deer that you want? How about bringing in some kids and letting them shoot your crapper management bucks if you don't have enough tags. Hell, my guess is this is how DoeBusters(TM) probably got started. Because they needed help killing deer.

The entire tone of the 'argument' was awful because they just screamed "I'm rich and have an awesome ranch so I shouldn't have to abide by the law."

Clearly it's how he operates his business and his ranch. Sad that he has a mouthpiece and that people probably listen to him.

Yes

I have shot my share of whitetail, but deer hunting especially here in Texas is becoming more of a problem than a solution(the bucks of Tecomate, type of deer hunting, I have no qualm with the average deer hunter). Anytime you manage a tract of land strictly for the benefit of one particular type of animal it causes problems. High fence or no high fence, it does not matter, this mentality is a problem.

Just curious-------I didn't see the program but apparently they said he was a dentist, but how do you know he commits medicaid fraud?

He was indicted on 20-something counts of Medicaid fraud after the feds paid someone to secretly video his operation. Ultimately it ended up involving several other folks including a State Rep from the Valley. That pretty well unraveled the whole case.

In all fairness he was ultimately acquitted, hence why I said, "if he didn't have to play fair neither do I" in my OP.

Edit: Here are some links to the news articles:

Link 1 - Description of charges (and a hidden note on why I think he was found not guilty).

Link 2 - News of his acquittal

[This message has been edited by Sean98 (edited 8/12/2011 8:47p).]

That daughter of his is sure enough hot.

This all comes back to my original point that I have been harping on for years. Deer belong to the state, not the landowner. State allocates tags for managed properties. Managed properties should be required to distribute X amount of tags of the Y they receive to the general public. Why? Again, state owns the deer, and the state is doing you a benefit by surveying your property and coming up with a management plan. And the license fees of the average hunter are subsidizes your little piece of managed heaven.

You don't want Joe Blow coming on your property and shooting "your" deer? Fine, have fun popping 300 does each year by yourself. Otherwise, shut the eff up and unass it for the rest of us.

As Log alluded, here in Texas they can apply for management tags which will allow the kill a crap load of deer.

That being said, I don't know what they're *****ing about. If they decide to manage and hunt the state's herd, play by the state's rules. Otherwise, manage for exotics and not whitetails and kill as many you want, when you want.

Maybe it's high time the Tecomante boys take up bowhunting if the thrill is gone.

You can shoot all the deer you want any time of the year

Axis deer
Red deer
Sitka deer

You just cant shoot whitetails

I believe they were talking about Ted Nugent.

If someone on a high fence ranch wants to shoot all their deer who cares? But for every untagged deer on the property they owe the state a sum of money. Their fences cannot have any openings in then at all or they get fined and they have to record and send in to the state all deer purchases and birth records so an accurate count can be kept of how many deer they own.

"Deer belong to the state, not the landowner."

Says the state.

Also, the state says you don't own your land - you're just renting it from them. see what happens when you don't send in your extortion money (property taxes).

Not saying hunting should be completely unregulated, just getting really sick of de gubmint constantly meddling with all aspects of life.

Says every state, and has since the 1700's when the first game laws were put into place.

my recent favorite was scott haugen on trijicon something and he was hunting in texas talking all this BS about how to scout the terrain for deer and how he expertly set his blind up in between a bedding area and a food plot in a "pinch" area.

then, all of the bucks that come in go to this one spot on the ground and start eating (obviously they've been feeding corn there for days) and he shoots one and starts spouting off about how his skillful scouting of deer movement paid off. no mention of the corn.

C'MON MAN!

I'm with you Sean.

Maybe I am calloused but I don't share the giddiness when a grown man shoots something.

I do understand that there are many reasons why someone gets excited during the moment but sometimes it just looks so silly.

You mean like a certain beret wearing host?

We own the deer, but when you high fence,any deer that happen to be in the enclosure when it is complete becomes private property. No way is that right!!!

Plus most of the "rump rangers" gut shoot their animals!
Collectively THE worst shots I've ever seen!

Especially those "mouth breathers" on Primos!

Not to mention the "Head Rainbow" Warrior Jackie "Pipefitter" Bushman!

Here's my .02.

The State owns all free ranging deer. All (new) high fences will require a permit. A survey will be completed to estimate the now captive population of WT deer and the landowner pays the state restitution for 'taking' the deer. The deer now belong to the land owner and he can do as he wishes with them.

As far as hunting shows- it's just like porn: Does life *actually* work out like that? No. But it is entertaining, is a booming business and will always be around for reasons 1 & 2.

I don't know who to be mad at.....I think ursusguy because I left early this morning for Port A. About 70 miles or so in the rain which was great but he didn't rebut anything and i couldn't on the deer programs.

Like most things some things are abused by some although others benefit others.

What I hear first out of MLDP is "Managed Land" and that to me is what the program is all about. The program is incentive based and habitat focused.

They may be the states deer but the chances are pretty good that you won't see anyone from the state 364 days of the year....maybe more.

What do you get?
You may get the benefit of someone like ursusguy helping you to improve the habitat.

You get to count the states deer every year on your dime.

You get a lot of paperwork that you didn't have before....during the season.

You get an extended season and that is fantastic for mule deer since the season is only 15 days long. If you see Big Daddy in the 15 days after we kick tu's butt for the last time you can let him walk. The ability to hunt during the last few days of the year gives him and other trophy types a chance to go thru the rut.

To me the most misunderstood portion of MLDP is "Deer Permits."

What do you get? How about 100 permits based on the deer survey etc. The other data point might be 65 bucks and 35 does......that's it. Is that good?

Let's say I invite Log since his toe has healed up and he gets a free hunt if he'll take a kid. You do that fifty times and you are on target for the 100. On the way home everyone discovers that they still have their deer tag. Anything wrong with taking another 100?

On the other hand if i chose not to participate in the MLDP there is nothing that says I can't get my buddies and go shoot 250 bucks.

Some people choose to participate in programs for the benefit of------others may choose to participate for the benefit of------

I like watching the discussion. Sean, Log, Max06, and others are bringing ideas for discussion.

Excellent point about the "managed land" aspect of the MLDP program. Increasingly folks are simply wanting to just feed the deer and shoot the deer, but not do any habitat work. And there are a large number of folks that get the permits, then don't even attempt to use them.

The amount of time you get with a biologist varies quite a bit, and often depends on the individual relationship. Also depends on how many landowers they are working with. West of 35, and South Texas, the regulatory biologist might have 20-30 level 2 and 3 MLDP properties (also tend to be a little higher maintenance landowers). East of 35 is a mixed bag. One guy has 7 counties, but only 30ish MLD properties. Then there are the Leon counties of the world. There are a 100+ MLD properties in one county, and a bunch that want argue and throw political names around.

I'll just say some of the goofier aspects come from outside TPWD, and we'll say require appointment.

[This message has been edited by ursusguy (edited 8/13/2011 3:18p).]

No disrespect to you guys. I'm sure you are brutally thin. The point I was thinking about on the road is basically the landowner is on his own once it gets started.

You get 100 permits. What do you do?

One might choose to shoot big bucks....someone else might choose to only shoot old 8's and under. TPWD doesn't enter into that decision. It gets back to Managed Land.....get the count right. A 209 counts "1" as does a "management" deer.

Bottom line a MLDP program is not like winning the lottery.

....and Sean I rarely watch a hunting show especially if a ammo company is the sponsor. They start the show showing you what they are about to shoot.....it walks around broadside for five minutes before they shoot it and at the end they show you what they shot......all in excellent slow motion.

[This message has been edited by sunchaser (edited 8/13/2011 4:08p).]

[This message has been edited by sunchaser (edited 8/13/2011 7:10p).]

That's why the only hunting show I watch is Benny Spies on versus. Though I haven't had a chance to see Bull's show yet.

Animals are considered property of the state as a whole (and effectively the public) because of this: "The King's Deer".

"The Bucks of T" used to be my fav....just because of the sheer numbers of beautiful bucks they had on tape...and it was a Texas show for the most part.
Lots have changed for those people putting that show on. First of all, the ranch has since sold...so all the shows you are now seeing are re-runs.
Saw David at the SHOT for a few minutes...but didn't get the chance to ask what he's doing now. I just assume he bought him another ranch somewhere and is building a new "Tecomate"...but don't know for sure.
That show was well produced and edited.

www.majestyoutdoors.org

Texas Trophy Hunters.

Everybody and their "poodledog" has got a "huntinshow!"
Most, if not all. are a piece of $h!t!

Gut shooting ba$tards!

Except for Bull's show!

appreciate the luv NW80!

Technology has advanced to where anybody and their dog can afford an HD camera and get in the field. The problem is....not everyone has the talent to edit or can afford the talent to do it with excellence.

Just in the short time we've been involved with Outdoor Programming...I've seen numerous "one-hit" wonders. Television air-time is very expensive and so many shows borrow or hedge their savings to make it possible. BIG MISTAKE.

We are so fortunate to survive because of our format and generous donors and supporters. We always say that "You can only shoot a buck or catch a fish in so many ways that hasn't been done on television already."

All that to say that the "Bucks of Tecomate" really had a nice run. I never get tired of looking at big mature deer...and they sure had 'em!


www.majestyoutdoors.org

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our format

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If by 'our format' you mean 'our mission' then I agree with you. You're show is an Outdoors Plus show. IMHO. Keep it up.

I distinctly recall seeing an episode of Orland Wilson and he and his kid (or grandkid) were catching one dink speckled trout after another. He was grabbing them with a towel, unhooking them, and releasing them back into the drink.

Oh, we were talking about hunting shows, right?

quote:

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This all comes back to my original point that I have been harping on for years. Deer belong to the state, not the landowner. State allocates tags for managed properties. Managed properties should be required to distribute X amount of tags of the Y they receive to the general public. Why? Again, state owns the deer, and the state is doing you a benefit by surveying your property and coming up with a management plan. And the license fees of the average hunter are subsidizes your little piece of managed heaven.

You don't want Joe Blow coming on your property and shooting "your" deer? Fine, have fun popping 300 does each year by yourself. Otherwise, shut the eff up and unass it for the rest of us.

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I understand what you are saying, but unless the state enforces some blanket restrictions on legal aspects for landowners, forcing a landowner to let the general public on their land just isn't going to happen.

Now, if one is on a "managed" program and habitually does not live up to their end of the bargain (my old landlord at A&M was notorious for this), I can see that as one of the actions the state could require if you want to be on the program.

Unfortunately, there just aren't enough landowners out there like our friend in common that will let people come take doe and/or management bucks at little to no cost.

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If someone on a high fence ranch wants to shoot all their deer who cares? But for every untagged deer on the property they owe the state a sum of money. Their fences cannot have any openings in them at all or they get fined and they have to record and send in to the state all deer purchases and birth records so an accurate count can be kept of how many deer they own.

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I actually really like this idea. I'm not for nor against high fencing - as I've stated before, as a non land owner I can see both sides of the issue and there are valid points for both I agree with. But the reality is that when you high fence a section of land, you effectively capture whatever wildlife is on that land and "domesticate" it (for lack of a better term) for your own personal use.

Deer, and any other wildlife, belong to the State. If you choose to fence state property in, then there should be a survey done and a fee per animal of each species that is effectively captured by your high fence. And as a trade off, your now "domesticated" deer herd is not considered wild game anymore, so if you choose to wipe out your heard in a single season, that's fine, because you have compensated the state for the heard. Honestly, this is one of the best ideas I've heard of.

My biggest gripe about hunting shows in general (Bull's is clearly an exception due to what his show encompasses and promotes) is the fact that they have, whether intended or not, modified the standard of hunting to the general public, and to most hunters themselves. Used to just about any 10 point was a wall hanger and something to brag about. Now, largely due to various management techniques and these shows, if your 10 pointer isn't up to X arbitrary standards, it is now relegated to "management" status. Combined with that, they have helped turn hunting from a past time into more of a corporate money making venture than anything, and in doing so have also helped to price out hunting to the general public - how many of us can honestly afford a $5k buck every season? (I hope this reads like I want it to).

quote:

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Deer, and any other wildlife, belong to the State. If you choose to fence state property in, then there should be a survey done and a fee per animal of each species that is effectively captured by your high fence.

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So what happens when rut comes around and a buck is chasing one of these "captured" doe and she manages to jump the fence? Does the state now reimburse you for that deer? Essentially they have their property back and thus should return your money. Same thing if a creek or river floods and takes the fence down.

Tag em, and build and adequate fence

Tecomate is at it again this morning. But it's not Morris and whats his name this time. The show is about Iowa deer drives. Deer drives are perfectly legal but watching guys with slug guns just banging away through the brush at deer and then claiming "well, I think I mighta hit them" makes me sad.

After a running "I think I hit him" shot they immediately follow the deer only to jump him out of his bed and lose him. To top him off while they're following that deer they come across a dead buck from last year that (in my head only, no evidence) is probably one that they banged away at last year.

...all of my judgmental-ness will surely lead me to make a bad shot next week when I'm on stand. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go outside and practice my running through the brush archery shots so I'll be ready for my next deer drive.

Step away from the remote. Take 2 Immodium. A bottle of Pepto. Then go outside and watch the combines run.