Outdoors
Sponsored by

Using TurboTax to file Personal and Farm Tax Return - Help

9,590 Views | 35 Replies | Last: 16 yr ago by CanyonAg77
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
So I decided to use TurboTax Home & Business to do our taxes myself this year. I've got some questions that many of you probably know the answers to.

On January 1, 2009, I began operating my cow/calf operation as a 'sole proprietorship'. I filed a d.b.a. and applied for an Employee Identification Number from the IRS.

My intentions were to have all of the cash flow for the farming operations centered on one small business checking account and to record each of the business incomes and expenses separate from my personal finances. I am currently making mortgage payments on the land and my intention was to lease the land to my business, to maintain that I am the owner and the business is not.

When entering my "business" information into TurboTax, do I fill out the Business Income and Expenses & Rentals and Royalties portions to account for the "business" expenses and rental income or the Farm Income and Expenses portion?
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bump for the day crowd.

Maybe my question is better posed as the following:

If I operate my farm as a small business sole proprietorship, do I file Form C for small businesses or Form F for farming?
Dirt 05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Try posting on this on the Business and Investing board. It's best to talk to an accountant who actually deals with this type of situation.

FWIW we used a schedule F last year for the farm income that was in my wife's name.
Ham Slice MRE
How long do you want to ignore this user?
What exactly are you trying to accomplish by leasing the land to yourself?
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I don't want the cost of the annual land payment to be recorded as a business expense because I don't currently generate enough income to offset it. In order to be considered a business, a farm must generate a profit in three out of the first five years.

Also, if the land is leased to an agricultural entity, the land qualifies for an agricultural exemption for property tax purposes, regardless if there is production or not.
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'm going to guess that it avoids some social security (FICA) and medicare (MCARE) tax. "Passive income" such as rental income is not subject to FICA and MCARE.

So let's say he's in the 25% bracket. If the cow/calf operation makes money, he pays $40 out of every hundred in taxes

25% income tax plus 15.3% FICA & MCARE (self employed folks pay both halves)

But if his business his paying his personal account for leasing the land, he can write that expense of the business and the business will pay 0% tax on it.

On his personal return, he codes it as "rental income" not subject to FICA & MCARE and only has to pay the 25% income tax.

At the end of the day, he gets to keep $75 of his original $100, not just $60.

This comes up a lot on farms where a farmer leases wheat pasture to a cattleman. Some accountants will tell you it is rental income for the farmer and not subject to FCARE MCARE. Others will tell you it is normal farm income and thus subject to FICA MCARE.

It's all about how aggressively you want to push the tax code and how big a jerk an auditor is if you ever get a visit from the IRS. Because the tax code is so convoluted, neither your accountant nor the IRS agent really knows what is legal.


It sounds like Todd02 is trying to be a little too cute. This is the kind of thing that leads to visits from auditors and ends with someone flying a plane into a building.
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Actually, CanyonAg77, what I'm trying to do is run my cattle operation as a 'business' and not as a 'hobby farm'.

I'm not trying to skirt around the law, here, I'm just trying to find out what the law is.

Don't forget you're 25 years older and probably more experienced at this than I am...that's why I came here asking questions.
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Okay, Todd posted why I was still composing my last response. And I wanted to add that my posts are mere opinions, I'm not an accountant, nor do I play one on TexAgs. I'm just an old fart who's seen a few things.

I will say that Todd and others like him really ought to spend a few buck with an accountant, it's worth it. I keep track of all my stuff and know the tax code pretty well. My accountant will cost me about $1000 this year and he saved me $2000 on this year's return.

quote:
I don't want the cost of the annual land payment to be recorded as a business expense

The whole land payment is not deductible, just the interest portion.
quote:
In order to be considered a business, a farm must generate a profit in three out of the first five years.

I'm not sure that is a hard and fast regulation or merely a rule of thumb. I've always been told that three years in a row was the "rule". The truth is, hobby farms as tax dodges are a pretty common thing, and are a red flag to a lot of IRS auditors.

The trick is not really some arbitrary number of years, but how the business is run. If you are running up huge unnecessary expenses and using them to offset personal income, the IRS will notice.

If you are running your ag enterprise in a businesslike manner, you can show losses.

For instance, if I buy a brand new King Ranch one-ton dually diesel pickup for $60,000 to go see about my 2 cows, and show a $60,000 loss against my personal income that year, the IRS might notice. Especially if there's an RV in the yard that also fits on my new truck.

But if I buy a $60,000 tractor to plow 1000 acres, I have a much better chance of justifying that.
quote:
Also, if the land is leased to an agricultural entity, the land qualifies for an agricultural exemption for property tax purposes, regardless if there is production or not.

Hmmmm, I'll punt on that one. You may be right, but the county tax guys are like the IRS. They can usually tell the difference between accounting games and someone who's really trying yo run an ag enterprise.
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
The whole land payment is not deductible, just the interest portion.


Then I must not really understand what an expense is and what it isn't.

My understanding was that my land payment each year is approximately $8,000. I also had about $4,200 in farm expenses ($3,100 for a computer and stock trailer, $260 for sprayer and trailer parts, $580 for feed, and $275 for electricity to run my well - all justified expenses in my opinion). This past year, I did not have one red cent of income since I did not sell calves. Combine the land and farm expenses and I show a loss of $12,200. Even in years that I sell calves, I only generate $5000 in income. That would offset the $4,200 in farm expenses, but does not offset the land payment (or even the taxes).

I'm really trying to do this correctly here. I'm not trying to justify expenses on big trucks or equipment.
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I am trying to run the farm as a business by:

Obtaining a "does business as" documentation and filing it with the county;
Obtaining an EIN from the IRS;
Operating the farm cash flow in a separate bank account from my personal account;
Keeping itemized records of expenses; and
Trying to improve profitability by altering breeding schedules, weaning calves, and keeping records of cattle sale prices.

These are the types of activities that are referenced in IRS Publication 225, the Farmer's Tax Guide.

I'm not just looking for a tax write off.

CanyonAg77, I just want you to know that I originally took offense to your comments, but I'm really trying to learn what I can without having to forfeit a bunch of money to a CPA. The more educated I am, the better, in my opinion.
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
Then I must not really understand what an expense is and what it isn't.

My understanding was that my land payment each year is approximately $8,000. I also had about $4,200 in farm expenses ($3,100 for a computer and stock trailer, $260 for sprayer and trailer parts, $580 for feed, and $275 for electricity to run my well - all justified expenses

I'm probably going to offend you again, but you need an accountant. Maybe you just aren't bothering to post all the details, but do you realize that the computer is not an expense, but a deduction?

In other words, you deduct the expense of capital items (like a computer or stock trailer) over a few years, not all in one year.

And unless the computer is in a farm office or set up separately from personal use, you can't deduct it all, but only the percent used for the farm.

And land is not deductible. So when you pay a mortgage payment, the part of your payment that reduces your balance is not an expense, but the interest paid is.

However, the improvements on land are deductible. So if I buy bare ground, I have no deductions. But if I buy a farm with a fence and a windmill, I can figure out what % of the purchase price was for the improvements and deduct them.

Again, they are depreciated over several years, not all at once.

The rule of thumb most folks use is no more than 50% of the purchase price can be deducted if there are improvements enough to justify 50%. And you can deduct the replacement cost. So if the fence on the farm you buy is crap, you still can deduct the cost of a new fence.

And just to throw a monkey wrench into all of the above, you can expense your deductions, and take off all of a deductible expense in one year, up to a certain limit.

Again, I'm not an accountant, just telling you what I think the custom is, your mileage may vary.
quote:
This past year, I did not have one red cent of income since I did not sell calves.

Livestock are a whole 'nother thing. I don't have any, so I don't know. When you buy cattle, is it an expense or a multi-year deduction? Or is that only with breeding stock?
quote:
I am trying to run the farm as a business...

I'm not just looking for a tax write off.

Sorry if I came off a little strong. But the truth is, lots of folks use a "farm" as a tax dodge, the IRS is aware of that fact, and they don't like it.

It sounds like you're trying to do it right, but obviously some things are slipping by you.

I'd try to find an accountant in your area and find out what it would cost for an hour of his time to ask questions...including how much he charges for doing your taxes. You might have to wait until after March 1, as farmers have to pay taxes by then, and he might be a little busy with their returns right now.

If I haven't offended you too much, I'll be glad to comment more later on any other questions.
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
From what I can tell by your response, I'm confusing two separate concepts. Those being the business accounting and the business tax accounting.

From the standpoint of my business accounting, I have income and expenses. The income, obviously, is money coming in and the expenses are monies going out. If I have more income than expenses, then my business makes a profit. If not, then my business has a loss. This is based solely on cash flow, which I understand has nothing to do with taxes!

From the standpoint of business tax accounting, I recognize that every expense has an associated reducing effect on my taxable income, known as a deduction. Deductions for assets are based on depreciation of that asset and can be claimed over a period of time while other deductions can only be used once.

Take the stock trailer, for example. Let's say I buy a stock trailer for $5,000 and depreciate it using straight-line method over 5 years with a salvage value of $1,000. From a tax accounting standpoint, I am spreading that expense out over 5 years, $800 per year. However, from an actual standpoint, that expense was incurred all at once, $5,000. If I had an income of $4,000 and the trailer is the only expense I had, then for tax purposes, I can show that I made a $3,200 profit that year, when in actuality I spent $1,000 more than I made, resulting in a $1,000 loss. Which is correct for determining profitability?

Does that make sense?
Ham Slice MRE
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
The following factors, although not all inclusive, may help you to determine whether your activity is an activity engaged in for profit or a hobby:

Does the time and effort put into the activity indicate an intention to make a profit?

Do you depend on income from the activity?

If there are losses, are they due to circumstances beyond your control or did they occur in the start-up phase of the business?

Have you changed methods of operation to improve profitability?

Do you have the knowledge needed to carry on the activity as a successful business?

Have you made a profit in similar activities in the past?

Does the activity make a profit in some years?

Do you expect to make a profit in the future from the appreciation of assets used in the activity?


I still don't see why you would try to lease the land to yourself. You are creating more income. Why not just expense the interest paid on your schedule F?
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
Let's say I buy a stock trailer for $5,000 and depreciate it using straight-line method over 5 years with a salvage value of $1,000. From a tax accounting standpoint, I am spreading that expense out over 5 years, $800 per year. However, from an actual standpoint, that expense was incurred all at once, $5,000. If I had an income of $4,000 and the trailer is the only expense I had, then for tax purposes, I can show that I made a $3,200 profit that year, when in actuality I spent $1,000 more than I made, resulting in a $1,000 loss. Which is correct for determining profitability?

Does that make sense?

At this point, we're talking about tax accounting, since that's all that matters.

And just BTW, I'm pretty sure my accountant takes everything down to a "0" balance, leaving no salvage value. For stuff you wear out instead of selling, that works well.

What you're calling "business accounting" is really "cash flow"

In your scenario:

$4000 income
-$800 depreciation
net taxable income $3200
assume 15% tax bracket + 15% FICA MCARE = 30% of $3200 = $960
income after taxes 3200-960 = $2240

But your cash flow was
$4000 cash income
-$5000 purchase
- $960 taxes
= -$1960 cash flow

So the first thing you do is do your accounting for tax purposes, then you figure your income/expenses to see if you can make the thing cash flow. If you have outside (non-farm) income, maybe you can make it flow.

And when it all comes down to it, positive cash flow over a number of years determines if the enterprise was successful. And over time your taxable income and real income tend to average out close to the same.

Or maybe you only put $1000 down on the $5000 trailer. Your taxable income is unchanged, but you are $4000 ahead in cash flow, netting $4000-$1960 = $2040 positive cash flow.

Obviously, you're now $4000 in debt for the trailer, but you've managed to keep all the plates spinning for another year. And your net worth isn't too bad because you're worth the value of the trailer plus the cash in your pocket less the trailer debt.

As I said earlier, there's also the option of "expensing" the capital asset. You can take all or part of the value you would normally depreciate, and declare it as expense for this year.

For instance, in your example, you bought a $5000 trailer in a year when you had $4000 in income. You could choose to expense off $4000 of the trailer value, and your taxable income and thus, taxes for the year would be $0.00 Then you take the remaining $1000 and depreciate it over 5 years (say) and in the 2010 tax year and out you could deduct $200 a year for the remaining trailer value.

Still using your example above, that only puts you $1000 in the hole for cash flow.

Or using the example I gave:

Buy a $5000 trailer
Put $4000 down
Owe $1000 on the trailer
Make $4000 in income
Expense off $4000 of the $5000
Have a net taxable income of $0
Net cash flow = $0
Depreciation to be recovered in next 5 years $1000
Net worth = $0 cash on hand + value of trailer (obviously less than the $5000 because its used now) - $1000 owed on trailer.



[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 2/24/2010 2:55p).]
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
No wonder the government is such a mess...

This is RIDICULOUS!!!

It is somewhat making sense, now, Canyon. Thanks for the patience and letting your aversion to hobby farmers subside long enough to help with my education. I can assure you that I feel the same way about them. It's hard starting out in a full blown cattle operation from scratch, so I need all the help I can get.

My parents live next door to a CPA. I'm going to see what advice I can get from her.
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
I still don't see why you would try to lease the land to yourself. You are creating more income. Why not just expense the interest paid on your schedule F?
He's shifting income, not creating more. The farm pays less in his scenario, but he pays more on the personal side.

And unless I miss something, he's not filing a separate return for the farm, so the net taxes are the same.

I think his object was to try to keep the personal business distinct from the farm business. His intention was to make it obvious to the IRS and county tax guys that the farm was a distinct entity.

Although I still think the way he sets it up might protect some of his farm income from FICA and MCARE, if he wants to take that risk.


Todd, hams question points up a misunderstanding you and I may have.

I'm going to assume that you are charging your farm a lease equal to the annual land payment, or $8000 a year. So yes, that entire $8000 is a deductible expense for the farm.

So ToddFarms writes a check to Todd02 and ToddFarms now has $8000 LESS taxable income.

But when Todd02 gets that check in the mail, Todd02 now has $8000 MORE taxable income.

And when Todd02 files his taxes, he can only deduct the interest paid portion of his $8000 land payment, plus any depreciation of improvements.


But since ToddFarms and Todd02 file the same tax return, it all seems rather circular, a lot of paperwork to end up where you started.
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
We were posting at the same time again.

I don't really have an aversion to hobby farms themselves. I just don't like folks who game the system, as in the "buying a farm truck that's really to pull the RV" scenario I made up earlier.

And it was more a warning than a rant. If I'm on to the ones gaming the system, you know the IRS is.

I still think the best advice is to run it in a businesslike manner, don't buy stuff for personal use and try to claim it as farm use, and be reasonable in your purchases.


Now if you want me to start a "YOU DAMN KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN" rant, let's talk about jerks in Tahoes, Avalanches and Lincoln Navigator pickups with "Farm Truck" tags.
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
But since ToddFarms and Todd02 file the same tax return, it all seems rather circular, a lot of paperwork to end up where you started.


I'm just trying to do the bookkeeping correctly so that my business is as profitable as possible, if only on paper.

My goal was to file a separate tax return for the business, however, as a sole proprietorship, that isn't an option (that I know of).

You are correct that I am trying to distinctly separate the business and personal finances. I also want to be careful about ownership of the assets. That is more of a personal thing than a legal thing since ToddFarms and Todd 02 are the same entity in the eyes of the IRS.

My original idea re: the lease concept was to avoid the large cash flow out of my business books each year for the land payment since I do not generate enough revenue to cover it. Actually, Canyon, while my land payment is ~$8,000 a year, I would only lease it to ToddFarms for a fraction of that, maybe $100 a year. Therefore, the business expense is $120 a year and not $8,000. It is, in fact, just shifting income from one entity to another. I'm not trying to make any extra income for Todd 02 or get any greater deduction for ToddFarms.

I got the idea from a co-worker. He and several family members have a partnership cattle operation. They each own their own land and lease the land to the partnership for cattle production. By doing this, they accomplish two things: 1) they didn't have to transfer ownership of the land to the partnership, thus affecting the percentage of ownership by each partner and 2) they qualify for 1-d-1 exemption on the properties regardless of whether there are cattle on it all the time since the cattle partnership has grazing rights to it and can use it at any time they wish (1-d-1 exemption allows for land to be idle for normal livestock rotation).

I suppose it is different since they are a partnership and I am a sole proprietorship. I don't know.

[This message has been edited by Todd 02 (edited 2/24/2010 3:36p).]
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I hear ya. I bought a big new truck in February 2009. I will claim the sales tax deduction on that purchase on my 2009 tax return for personal reasons. I do not, however, include it in my business expenses, even though I drive it when I go to the farm to check on my cows. I don't even report the fuel usage or mileage, unless I'm using the truck to haul calves to the sale barn, which I didn't do in 2009.
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BTW, my original question still stands.

Do I file a Schedule C since I am trying to run it as a separate business or a Schedule F since it is a farm?
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Don't confuse the farm use valuation of your land (state, county, local) with your Federal Income Taxes.

I think the trick on their operation is the partnership. I don't see any benefit to you by leasing the land to yourself as far as Federal taxes. There may be a benefit with your local tax office as far as farm use valuation, but I'd try to see if I could get approval without jumping through an extra hoop like that.

Really big operators can incorporate their farm and lease land and equipment to themselves (their corporation) and end up with some tax and inheritance benefits. But I'm going to guess you need to be bringing in close to $100,000 a year in net farm income to start making that practical.
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:

Don't confuse the farm use valuation of your land (state, county, local) with your Federal Income Taxes.


Yep. Just trying to make sure I account for everything that I do. If I lease the land to myself for whatever benefits I might get out of it, I don't want to not tell the IRS about it.
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Posting at same time again.

1) Keep the mileage on your truck anytime you use it for farm business. It's wrong to game the system by claiming personal expenses as farm expenses. But it's just as wrong (though not illegal) to cheat yourself by not taking legal, allowed deductions. Put a log book in your pickup and keep records of all farm travel. Look up the per mile deduction and TAKE IT.

The whole schedule C vs. schedule F type of thing is why I hire an accountant. Though I'm going to guess everything goes on F. I'm an Agronomy major, so take my free advice for what you paid for it.

I got an email from my accountant two days ago. It said
quote:
you were able to take the Domestic Production Activities Deduction and you qualified for the Making Work Pay credit

My reply was "thanks" when what I was really thinking was "WTF, over? But it saved me some cash, so whoopee! And back to cash flow, it saved me more in taxes than what he charged to do my return.


[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 2/24/2010 3:43p).]
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The biggest thing with the mileage is this:

my farm is 260 miles from my house and many times when I go, I am going for recreation also, not just to check on the cows. I don't feel justified recording those miles for tax purposes since I would probably be making the trip even if the cows weren't there.

On the other hand, I have an old truck that my Dad drives when he goes to the farm. It's 85 miles from his house. I have been covering the fuel in that truck for him, but I just pay it from my personal finances and don't count it as a business expense.

Once again, I'm trying to appear profitable.
Willy Lee
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I second the idea of just sitting down with a CPA and picking his brain for an hour or so. It may cost your a few bucks, but it will make you sleep better at night knowing you're doing things correctly. Just my opinion. I like to stay on the safe side of things.
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
All depends on your aggressiveness interpreting the tax code. I'd probably deduct it all, or at least on your trips, do a percentage such as 50% work, 50% farm. I'd count all my dad's expense.

And I wouldn't get all up in arms worrying about making a profit, especially the first year. The guidelines I find online are "a profit in 3 of 5 years". But it's not an absolute. Here's a paper from Purdue that talks about it

http://www.agecon.purdue.edu/extension/pubs/faq/FAQ_14.pdf

It's several years old, but it makes good points. And here's a posting that claims to reprint the IRS guide for auditors regarding hobby farms

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12977534/IRS-Audit-Guide-for-Farm-Hobby-Losses
TheSheik
How long do you want to ignore this user?
you guys have got parts and pieces of your discussion above correct, but some of it is not

you do file farm income and expense on Sch F

Sch C is for self employed consultants and such as well as other sole proprietor small businesses making and or selling widgets and things like that

Hobby farm rules start with the 3 out of 5 rule but the key thing, the most important thing as mentioned above is having a reasonable profit expectation and motive. A relatively recent case allowed the increasing value of the land and its potential future sale to be included in the profit motive determination. How you do business and what your potential income might be is the most important question. Plus you have time on your side. If you don't get audited in the first ten years but you start showing a good profit by then, ten years of straight losses won't necessarily cause you to be considered a hobby farmer. Good records and good business methods and hiring a good CPA will pay off big time.

Purchase of land with improvements and other assets including cattle requires using the IRS depreciation tables to calculate the expense allowable each year. Not impossible to calculate but difficult for a non-tax guy to do correctly (I've seen lots of tax guys, including some CPA's that have trouble getting it right) and Turbo tax will let you do things it shouldn't

there are reasons you might want to lease the land to yourself, but that's usually not the path to take

Find somebody to hire to prepare your return. The more stuff you have going on, the more likely they'll be able to save you some significant money and apply the ever increasingly difficult to interpret IRS rules and regulations correctly. It is not imperative that you find an Ag specialist, but some CPA's have no idea some of the special rules farmers are subject to and can benefit from.

so says an old CPA (with lots of cow experience) that is now out of the tax business
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Thanks, Sheik, good advice. And I'm not a bit surprised that I got things wrong.

This whole thread is further proof of the need for a simple system, either a flat tax or a VAT. But I don't expect a change. The ability to tax is the ability to run people's lives. Congress will not easily give up that type of power.
roveram
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Do exactly what Sheik said. Put down the Turbo Tax and slowly walk way. Treat it like a coiled rattler. Then get a CPA with experience in schedule F's.

You'll thank me later.

CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
1) Agree that he needs an accountant, I've said it all along

2) But it's still important to have at least some grasp of the issues involved so you can make good decisions and work with your accountant.
Todd 02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Well, we've got a meeting with an accountant tomorrow at 4:00p. The first session is free and I'm taking tons of questions.

The whole issue is more convoluted than I thought. I also have learned that I should have properly educated myself about all of this stuff before starting.

I'll have to go back and account for everything. The cows, the land, the fences, the well, and all of the production I've had. Much of it has been ignored in the past. It's too bad they don't teach life skills tax accounting starting in elementary school.

Now then, a little off topic...

Do any of you operate your farm as an L.L.C.? Many of the things I've been reading speak about the concern for losing 'business' assets from personal liability lawsuits. One way to avoid this is by forming an L.L.C. That way, if I cause a traffic accident, for example, and am found financially liable if sued for it, the courts can't go after my land, cattle, etc...

Just something to think about and one of the many questions I'll have for the CPA tomorrow.

Obviously, I would be grateful if any of you are willing to help me generate a list of questions that are important to ask, lest I forget any.
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Good for you on the CPA. You might want to pay for a lawyer's time to ask about the LLC.

Short answer, no I don't operate in that way. I carry a farm liability policy and that's a simpler way in my book.
SD_71
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CA77 & Sheik have given VERY GOOD advise. Please just make sure that your accountant has experience with the business YOU are in. Just because they are a CPA does not mean they know everything about your type of BUSINESS. Also agree on the lawyer suggestion and same goes here, make sure he or she knows YOUR business. Over the years I have paid the "STUPID TAX" too many times for NOT doing these things. you will find that it will some of the BEST money you ever spent. GOOD LUCK!! CA77 that "Farm Plate" and "Ag Tax Exempt" are 2 of my biggest gripes of the "hobby people". I saw one of those $ 60,000 KR,4x4,chrome rims, polished, shiny as a "diamond in a pigs butt" no tool box trucks the other day with "Farm Plates" and I really wanted to shoot his tires out...
TheSheik
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Liability questions and setting up an LLC or Corp fall in the lawyer category

But think of it this way...

Liability can go downstream but not upstream

If you run over somebody - what you own is at risk or exposed to the creditors - everything downstream from you - and you would own the LLC

if the LLC runs over somebody - the assets of the LLC would be exposed - but not necessarily your assets outside the LLC - in other words, upstream from the liability

It does create an additional layer that could protect assets inside the LLC, but thats more involved than a paragraph on TexAgs is capable of covering. See your lawyer and make sure you jump through all the hoops to create and preserve the "corporate veil" if that is what you are intending. There is not a great tax benefit to creating an LLC to operate out of.

ps
this first year, when organizing your records for the CPA - you don't need to know where it goes on the return so much as where it came from or why you incurred the expense - communicate that to the accountant - if its farm or land related, put all those transactions together - if its vehicle related - put all that stuff together - not all of it will be deductible, but gather it up, summarize it and give it to the accountant. After the return is done and filed, spend some time with it and your summary to track numbers to and from the return and your workpapers. Then make an appointment with your accountant for after tax-season to go over all that - thats the best way to learn.
CanyonAg77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Thought of one more thing today, sorry about bringing back a dead thread to say it....


Not so much for Todd02, but for anyone else in this situation. Asking for this kind of advice after the tax year is over is barn door closing after equine escape of the first order.

A farm gives you an amazing ability to manipulate your taxes in any one year. Got too much income? Buy something big on December 31. Want to avoid too much income? Deliver your product, but tell the buyer not to send you a check until January first of the next year. Showing a loss? Sell your grain on December 31.

And as you can tell from the above examples, this only works during the tax year. If you didn't buy or sell before midnight New Year's eve, you can't (legally and ethically) go back and fix it.

But if you're sitting there in November and realize you don't like the way the tax year is ending, you can fix it.


As with any business, inform yourself, and stay in front of the numbers.
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.