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Blowing grass clippings in the street/storm drain

28,409 Views | 105 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by TwoMarksHand
AggieBonz02
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I don't think anybody is advocating dumping even a full mower bag into the storm drain here. Blowing a couple cubic feet of grass into the street once a week, thirty times a year, is not going to clog a storm drain or harm the ecosystem.

Of course, if you capture your grass and compost it or dispose of it properly, you don't have to worry about an excess of clippings.
AgBrad08
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quote:
Blowing a couple cubic feet of grass into the street once a week, thirty times a year, is not going to clog a storm drain or harm the ecosystem.


Multiply that by 1 million homes in a big city though, and surely it adds up.

AggieBonz02
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quote:
Multiply that by 1 million homes in a big city though, and surely it adds up.


Indeed, but the storm drain system surely doesn't outfall all at one point, which would likely decrease the impact that such an organic contamination would have throughout an entire watershed. And speaking of watersheds, cities with one million homes, such as Houston, span over several watersheds, thereby further decreasing the impact.

All things in moderation...
insulator_king
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AG
Page 3?!?!?!?!
eric76
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AG
It always seemed kind of stupid to me to put something so readily biodegradable as grass clippings in non-degradable plastic bags and ship them to land fills for disposal.
AggieBonz02
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Honestly, one of the greatest things about Lubbock is the fact that collection of municipal solid waste is a breeze with the network of alleys and dumpsters that run throughout the city. I miss that and wish every city would follow suit. I never put a blade of grass in a plastic bag until I moved away. It just goes straight into the dumpster and that's that. You can capture your grass clippings in a bag (rotary mower) or bucket (reel mower) and leave your yard looking pristine after each and every cut.
Sweet Kitten Feet
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S
I have a good lawn mower and my yard looks pristine after every cut. The clippings it leaves are miniscule and don't collect on the surface of the grass.
AggieChemist
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AG
quote:
2. Provies areas for bacteria and other non desirable things to grow.


You mean the kind of bacteria that compost dead grass?
Bottlerocket
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AG
rilloaggie
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AG
Another plus of living in lubbock is you can wait for the wind to pick up to mow. I have never bagged or blown clippings and they never built up. They were gone as fast as i could mow! Also comes in handy when it comes time to rake leaves.
Apache
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AG
quote:
one of the greatest things about Lubbock.... ....the network of alleys and dumpsters that run throughout the city.

You wouldn't say the alleys & dumpsters were better than that Prairie Dog town, would you?

quote:
You can capture your grass clippings in a bag (rotary mower) or bucket (reel mower) and leave your yard looking pristine after each and every cut.

Har. Har. Har. Grass in Lubbock? Here I thought it was all dirt & manure. Learn somethin' new every day.



[This message has been edited by Apache (edited 5/18/2009 6:07p).]
schmellba99
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AG
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Multiply that by 1 million homes in a big city though, and surely it adds up.
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Indeed, but the storm drain system surely doesn't outfall all at one point, which would likely decrease the impact that such an organic contamination would have throughout an entire watershed. And speaking of watersheds, cities with one million homes, such as Houston, span over several watersheds, thereby further decreasing the impact.

All things in moderation...


You appear to be making assumptions that these systems are all pristine and in new condition, disregarding the effects of time, deteriroration, silting deposits, trash deposits, organic growth or any of the several hundred other methods that cause systems to run at a far less efficiency than they are designed to do on paper.

If 1 person were to blow clippings into the system a couple times a year, I agree that it's not going to hurt anything. But 1 person turns into 100, turns into 1000, turns into 10k, turns into 100k, etc. with a system that is in a constant mode of deterioration and you have problems.

There is a reason it is against EPA laws to do this, and it's not really because somebody just thinks it's tacky.
schmellba99
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AG
quote:
First of all, storm drains are not "designed" to have 90-degree bends in them. I say "designed" because contractors who are not properly educated in storm sewer design usually end up "field engineering" the system as they go through construction. By rule, every storm drain is required to have appropriately spaced cleanouts or manholes as a solution to the problem you pose. These allow access to an otherwise closed system for the purposes of cleaning out the sewer.


I will argue this all day long. And win.

A manhole is a method of a 90 degree bend. A T intersection from a small branch into a branch main is a method of a 90 degree bend. You see both all the time in santitary sewers and storm sewers alike.

You must be an engineer of some sort with your placing blame on contractors. I'm also guessing by that statement above that you have spent little to no time in the field seeing how those neat CAD drawings translate into real world applications. I can tell you that any contractor that is worth a crap will NOT alter the design without authorization from the design engineer. The reason? Very simple - liability.

And considering how notorious engineers these days are at not doing the prior legwork to identify location and elevation of existing utilities (gotta love that catch all phrase "contractor to verify and confirm" that basically translates to "engineer is not going to do any more than draw some stuff on paper and put all onus on contractor if subsurface conditions are not what they should be in my perfect little cubicle world here", it's of very little surprise that things genrally differ to a significant degree in the field than what they show on the drawings. RFI's become part of the project record - which means that they are legal documents that in effect change both the drawings and the contract.
Yesterday
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AG
For all of you saying I should bag up my grass and throw it away, i'm waisting a plastic bag that surely poluted the earth more than my grass clippings and ship it to a landfill where it will be buried. I hate to break it to you, but the city of Grand Prairie will not pick up bags of grass. What is your solution now?
ursusguy
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AG
Mulch it. Works pretty well for me.
Hoss
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AG
Bagging grass is a waste of time, energy and good nutrients for your soil. It's a stupid thing to do. A good mulching mower will save you time and increase the health of your soil. Don't bag your grass. I watched my neighbor stop mowing every few minutes tonight to bag his grass. Makes no sense. He could have finished in half the time if he mulched and his yard would benefit from it.
Beckdiesel03
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AG
If you live in Dallas and see people doing this, you can call 311 and tell them and they will send someone out.
ghollow
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AG
killer,

I don't think GP will pick up yard clippings at all. You have no choice but to mulch or compost your yard clippings.

In Highland Village, we have to put yard clippings into a paper bag so that the bag can be recycled. They pick up yard waste on Mondays and our regular garbage on Thursday. They still encourage us to mulch though. I think the time is coming to where they will not pick up grass clippings either.
AggieBonz02
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I do confess that there often does exist a 90-degree “bend” in storm sewers in the form of a manhole (and also in the form of a junction box for that matter). Wherein your argument is flawed is that manholes, by design, exist as cleanout areas for the storm drainage systems; that being their sole purpose. In essence, they are traps where trash and sediment settle into a containment basin at the bottom of the manhole and water flows in and out at an elevation higher than that of the bottom of the manhole. Surely they do clog, but not as if a 90-degree elbow would. Also, they are, again by design, required to be cleaned out periodically. There are operation requirements of any system – storm drains included. Your tax dollars, in the form of operation costs, were considered in the initial design, approval and construction processes. Also, when the streets in your neighborhood flood, remember that they were designed to. Streets are not just for automobile traffic but also exist as a network of drainage channels to carry storm water away from your homes. In a torrential rain, they will often back up temporarily. Anyone in West Houston will attest to this. Be patient and give the system a chance to catch up; the “flood” will subside.

As for my job, I am an engineer (you got me!) by degree and work for a company that designs, permits and does construction management for landfills. What is the number one aspect of my job, you ask? Storm water drainage. That said, I also spend upwards of 80% of my time in the field working alongside contractors and have a great respect for many of them and their talents. Your post about change orders and RFI’s has nothing to do with the operations of a storm drainage system. I agree that many engineers aren’t practical enough to see beyond a sheet of paper; however, you must agree that many contractors shoot from the hip in making field adjustments in order to get the job done. It happens.

And as for the falsities that the media would have you believe about recycling and the impending shortage of landfill space, I can only say that you are allowing yourselves to be misled. There is not a shortage of space for landfills and we are not overfilling the ones we have. It is estimated that sixty percent of the trash in landfills is paper. Grass clippings make up an estimated thirteen percent. If you want to save space in the landfills, don’t use as much paper. And don’t bother recycling all that paper either. It might make you feel good, but it costs as much to build a landfill that will hold 20 years worth of trash as it does to recycle 5 years worth of recyclables.

As for the mowing, I agree that one should mow with a mulching mower if they can. It does provide proper nutrients that promote a healthy stand of grass without the addition of chemicals. If you can’t mulch, bag it and dispose of it or compost it. Don’t overdue the blowing of grass clippings into the street but don’t be ashamed of doing it either. Just don’t blow it directly into the storm sewer. And if your neighbor does this and it upsets you, educate them about it. For those of you that think it isn't your job, think again. If you want to live in a cooperative society where we all do our part for the common good, you've got to do your part also.

And finally, “Help control the pet population. Have your pets spayed or neutered.”
ghollow
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AG
Bonz,

I am also an engineer and have quite a bit of experience with landfills, especially opening and closing them. I don't think the issue is having enough space for landfills. The issue is what it costs to open and close landfills. The longer we can make the ones we have last, the longer we avoid the costs associated with closing the existing one and opening a new one. You are probably aware of the fact that it takes millions and millions of dollars to do this. Why spend this taxpayer's money prematurely if we can get more life out of our existing landfills by not putting things in them that do not need to be there.

I gotta disagree with you on the recycling thing also. While it does cost more to recycle some products than it does others, most recyclers are earning a profit by providing recycled products. There are more and more ideas everyday on items that can be manufactured from recycled goods. Technologies are constantly being developed that provide cheaper and cheaper ways to recycle goods. It is its own industry. Many "treehuggers" will pay a premium for products that are made from recycled goods.
I will agree with you on the fact that the current impact on the environment by yard clippings getting into the storm sewers is probably overblown. But at what point does it become too much? The current philosophy is to stop the practice now so that it does not become a problem in the future.
I agree with you on the pet thing too. If you are not going to breed them, get them fixed, especially cats.

My two cents.
AggieBonz02
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I will concede that my anti-recycling philosophy is deeply rooted in my personal job security. Despite my feelings about the costs involved, both monetary and otherwise, recycling has not proven to be an effective substitute to landfills because of the associated costs and the fact that many recycling processes still produce an abundant amount of waste, almost on par with manufacturing from raw materials. I certainly believe that we should be more thoughtful of what we put in our landfills, but I feel like the best option is to focus on limiting our waste generation rather than focusing on what to do with it after the fact.

*ETA: After reading this, I recognized that we have hijacked the original thread. OOPS! Looks like it might be time to put it where it's already ended up - in the trash!

[This message has been edited by AggieBonz02 (edited 5/19/2009 11:32a).]
Ranger275c
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regardless of what anyone may think is right or wrong about this, putting anything in the road is considered a hazard. There by making it wrong. is it worth the chance of being sued? Or even worth the chance of killing someone? I ride so if I go down and get hurt because someone blew grass in the road you can bet I am suing. And if I or my passenger dies you can bet involuntary manslaughter is going to get pushed. So again I ask is it worth the chance? I heard that legislation is being considered that would impose a fine of $2,500.00 per incident. can you afford that if it is true? Please be human and don't do thinks to jeopardize the safety of others. Don't wait till your grass is as high as your knee to mow. have a good sharp blade that mulches as well. your law will love you for it.
Bottlerocket
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AG
Ranger275c said:

regardless of what anyone may think is right or wrong about this, putting anything in the road is considered a hazard. There by making it wrong. is it worth the chance of being sued? Or even worth the chance of killing someone? I ride so if I go down and get hurt because someone blew grass in the road you can bet I am suing. And if I or my passenger dies you can bet involuntary manslaughter is going to get pushed. So again I ask is it worth the chance? I heard that legislation is being considered that would impose a fine of $2,500.00 per incident. can you afford that if it is true? Please be human and don't do thinks to jeopardize the safety of others.


Damn! If you go down because of grass clippings in a street, it ain't because of the grass clippings
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BCStalk
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Holy thread bump. Damn rookies
TxSquarebody
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For rook bumping a 10 year old thread about nothing.
Ranger275c
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Quote:

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/354928/grass-clipping-deadly-motorcycle-crash/
https://www.kwqc.com/content/news/Illinois-man-cited-for-grass-clippings-in-road-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-512133281.html
this one is from an attorney: https://www.davidandassociateslaw.com/blog/2019/05/motorcyclists-can-die-in-accidents-caused-by-grass-clippings.shtml
so again I ask is it worth the chance?
It may be 10 years old but it is worth it to keep reminding people that it is a serious issue
Bottlerocket
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AG
Weird thread bump. But this wasn't due to grass clippings, per the article you linked


The report says Pankey left an "approximately 1/8 mile long stretch of debris" on the roadway, after which a group of six motorcycles approaching the scene "had to drive near the center line to avoid the grass that was covering half of the roadway."

One of the motorcycle riders, Thomas E. Zeglen, "slowed down and exchanged finger gestures" with Pankey, who was still mowing at the time.

Zeglen's wife, Cheryl I. Zeglen, of Canton, Illinois, who was riding another motorcycle, crashed into him after not noticing he had slowed down.
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rootube
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AG
Texags... *****ing about neighbors since before Nextdoor was a twinkle in some internet billionaires eye.
BCStalk
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Go cry on nextdoor
BCStalk
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Beat me by a minute.
TwoMarksHand
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AG
I have not read this old thread, but I'm on the city council in my town (such a huge brag I know). But, grass clippings wreck the edges of our streets and costs us (and you) a bunch of money in repairing the streets.

Just my very small two cents.
rootube
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AG
OK. One of your links is from an ambulance chaser who is claiming that grass in the road is the equivalent of black ice. I'm no legal (or cycle) expert but that sounds like a dubious claim.


Here is the description of the fatal accident in the first article.

One of the motorcycle riders, Thomas E. Zeglen, "slowed down and exchanged finger gestures" with Pankey, who was still mowing at the time.

Zeglen's wife, Cheryl I. Zeglen, of Canton, Illinois, who was riding another motorcycle, crashed into him after not noticing he had slowed down.

This sounds like being a hothead is as much a reason for the accident as the grass.
Hagen95
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Ten year old thread bump. Nice.
FIDO 96
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I have no idea what my lawn guys do with my clippings. I pay them not to know.
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