Been waiting awhile for this baby. Going off to be built as soon as the gunsmith gives me the go ahead. Bush rifle build with an 18.5" medium weight barrel and SEI GLFS and Vortex FH.

how much green for the receiver?

I sold a couple of guns and got in on a group buy, so I broke even, but it was $720 shipped and FFL transferred. Saved about $125 over the non-group buy price.

Nice.

I'd really like to get an M1A but man they're expensive!

You can get a Springfield Armory M1A for $1200 or less if you do some shopping. And if it's got USGI parts, you'll be getting an even better deal for that price.

Very nice sir.

So this build will be similar to the SOCOM that SA sells? That'll be pretty cool.

SOCOM has a 16" barrel and uses a proprietary gas lock/muzzle break. The 18.5" I'm going with will use all standard readily available USGI parts.

Thanks for the tip Log. I've been checking out/comparing M1As and .308 ARs. I really like the standard rifle length Springfield M1As but the SOCOM models are the most unbalanced rifle I've ever handled. The .308 AR carbines I've handled balance much better. It'll be a while before I get to make a decision. I picked up a new Benelli a couple months ago so it will be a while before I can make another firearm purchase.

Looking forward to seeing your completed rifle.

Will definitely need pictures of the finished product, Log.

Might want to lock at a SOCOM that doesn't have the rail system or a Scout/Bush version. The VLTOR rail that they've got on them kind of negates the short & light idea that they were originally designed for.

Pics are definitely forthcoming.

That's going to be sick! Are the Smith receivers the only ones available that are forged?

LRB is the only currently manufactured forged version. Rumor is that Smith is going to produce them in the future. Also, the Polytech/Norinco clones that were imported in the 80's and early 90's are forged, and they are pretty close to GI spec. My other one is a Polytech.

[This message has been edited by Log (edited 6/18/2008 4:06p).]

Log, you mentioned USGI parts. I'm trying to get a feel for the GI spec parts (like LBR) vs. an off the shelf Springfield. Is comparing the two kind of like comparing an RRA AR-15 to a Colt (or one of the other mil-spec producers)?

In other words, do they shoot pretty similiar, just the GI versions are more durable?

[This message has been edited by WildcatAg (edited 6/19/2008 9:29a).]

SAI has used a smattering of USGI and commercial reproduction parts throughout their production cycle. Currently, most of what they are selling is commercial, with the odd USGI trigger group thrown in. In the past, you could find a rifle that was completely USGI except for the receiver. Typically it was mix of both.

When I say USGI parts, I'm referring to parts from demilled M-14 rifles or surplus parts. These include the oprod, trigger group, bolt, barrel, gas cylinder, and rear sight. There are other smaller USGI parts, but it's the big ones I listed that command attention, since they are marked with manufacturers codes.

From M14 Rifle History and Development, by Lee Emerson (I’ve got an electronic copy if you would like to email me, it has lots more information about actual USGI markings as well):

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Commercial Parts Identification

Barrels - Springfield Armory, Inc. in Illinois marked its USGI and commercial manufacture barrels SPRINGFIELD INC. GENESEO IL or GENESEO ILL or GENESO, IL 308. This marking is typically found on the barrel chamber. Chromium plated standard contour barrels supplied by Criterion Barrels, Inc. to Fulton Armory are stamped C.B.F.A. 7790190 followed by the month and year of manufacture. A 2004 production Wilson Arms chromium plated standard contour barrel sold by LRB Arms had the following markings: LRB 7790190 5/04 WA. Smith Enterprise, Inc. installed a Douglas 1:10 twist four groove heavyweight barrel on a M1A rifle in January 2003. The barrel was stamped with the following markings from top to bottom: first line - 1 10 308 WIN 1 03 second line - 4 35T SEI. At the bottom of the barrel at the rear end just forward of the op rod spring guide slot it was marked 1.

Bolt - Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A bolts are manufactured in the United States of America. The M1A bolts are typically marked 7790186-SA on the first line and A00030, B00048 or F00059 or similar number on the second line. They may have markings such as D and M3 on the rear end and A9 or B1 on the bottom surface. The letter A prefix for the number under 7790186-SA means the bolt was cast then finish machined. The letter B prefix for the number under 7790186-SA means the bolt was machined from bar stock. The letter F prefix for the number under 7790186-SA means the bolt is forged. Springfield Armory, Inc. began installing F prefix M1A bolts by no later than 2000. See 1987 Springfield Armory, Inc. Recall Notice for additional M1A bolt markings. No M1A parts, including bolts, are made by metal injection molding. Around receiver serial number 165XXX, Springfield Armory, Inc. commercial manufacture factory installed bolts have letters and numerals with a taller and thinner font than the style found on USGI M14 bolts. A Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A bolt not subject to recall was tested for surface hardness. The result was 52 HRC, the same as a USGI HRT marked M14 bolt.

Gas Cylinders - Some Smith Enterprise, Inc. gas cylinders were electropenciled with the marking 3A5E1 S.E.I. LRB Arms gas cylinders are marked 12182. This number stands for L (twelfth letter of the alphabet) R (eighteenth letter of the alphabet) B (second letter of the alphabet).

Hand guard silver painted bottom that may have the letters DT and a number or a number by itself

Operating rod may have electro-penciled numbers and the connector notch shape is different from USGI design

Trigger housing five or six digit number

Windage knob counterfeit W C E

Operating Rod - Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A operating rods are manufactured in the United States of America. On Springfield Armory, Inc. operating rods, look for either: 1) 7267064 on the first line and SA centered below it or together in one line 2) 7267064-2 on the first line and SA centered below it. The first example is the earlier of the two markings. Springfield Armory, Inc. operating rods with the early marking, no -2, will not have a notch under the handle like USGI operating rods. By no later than 1993, the notch under the handle was added to its operating rods, e.g., M1A-A1 serial number 0748XX. For clarity, U. S. government Springfield Armory operating rods are marked 7267064 SA all on one line and are machined with the notch under the handle but may or may not have the forward end vent hole.

Rear Sight Base - A rear sight base marked NM/2A on the right hand side and BST2 on the bottom is most likely a commercial reproduction. A part marked NM/2A with no other markings may be a commercial reproduction.

Trigger Housing - For commercial Springfield Armory, Inc. trigger housings, look for part numbers 7267030-G, 7267030-H, 7267030-I or 7267030-S.

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In regards to USGI parts:

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Bolt Markings - A USGI bolt (and receiver) may or may not have a dimple from a pin punch after successful proof round testing. Replacement bolts were proof round tested using a fixture. Frankford Arsenal and Lake City loaded the proof rounds to 65,000 psi.

An inscribed letter M on a USGI bolt means it was examined by magnetic particle inspection. Not all USGI bolts will have the letter M though. USGI M14 bolts have additional stamps besides the part number and bolt manufacturer. The other markings are the material lot and the steel supplier codes. Such an example can be found on a bolt marked 7790186 HRT A20 CDR. These are in order: 1) part number 2) manufacturer code 3) material lot number and 4) steel supplier code. If a manufacturer had only one steel supplier then just the heat treat or material lot code was stamped on the bolt. Other manufacturers consolidated their markings to include both material lot and steel maker. All M14 type rifles properly assembled will have bolts with rollers attached. The U. S. government Springfield Armory bolt markings can be confused with commercial reproduction Springfield Armory, Inc. bolts. The U. S. government Springfield Armory stamped its bolts in one of two ways, one format for 7790185 marked bolts and another format for 7790186 marked bolts. If the bolt was made by the U. S. government Springfield Armory and it is marked 7790185 it will have the following: 7790185-SA on the first line and the material lot number on the second line, e.g., YO2. U. S. government Springfield Armory bolts made to the 7790186 drawing have this identification scheme:

7790186 on the first line followed and then SA and the material lot number on the second line, e.g., Z1B.

USGI M14 bolts made by Winchester have its CAGE Code, 66118, on the second line whether stamped 7790185 or 7790186 on the first line.

Textile Machine Works M14 bolts can have the manufacturer code, HRT, either on the first line or the second line of the bolt markings. USGI M14 bolts were stamped with the 7790186 part number by no later than 1962. The 7790185 marking was used on USGI M14 bolts until at least 1961.

There are bolts with counterfeit markings. Ron Smith of Smith Enterprise, Inc. has seen two M14 bolts stamped TRW that were not made by TRW. Most genuine unaltered commercial Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A bolts do not have a pin punch dimple. The M1A bolts marked 7790185 on the top line and SA RRR on the bottom line are an exception to this rule of thumb. Bolts so marked have a visible casting sprue on the bottom side. All USGI bolts were phosphate coated. Any M14 bolt that is bare steel or has a finish other than phosphate coating was not produced that way by the USGI contractor so buyer beware! The bolt installed in the M14 type rifle should be able to pass the slide test as discussed in Kuhnhausen’s manual and have proper lug engagement and proper headspace prior to use.

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Operating Rod - The operating rod in the USGI M14 rifle serves three purposes in the cycle of operation: 1) moves the bolt rearward once acted upon by the gas piston 2) moves the bolt forward under spring force from the operating rod spring and 3) engages the connector assembly to facilitate automatic fire. Some Harrington & Richardson, Springfield Armory, and Winchester operating rods do not have a vent hole drilled in the forward end of the cylindrical portion. Three 1961 manufacture new-in-tube operating rods (two Harrington & Richardson and one Winchester) opened for examination had no vent hole. U. S. Army Aberdeen Proving Ground Report No. DPS-471 discusses the testing of twenty-one randomly selected M14 rifles. This testing was performed from September 28, 1961 to January 30, 1962. The Winchester and Springfield Armory operating rods on the rifles in this test did not have the vent hole, but the Harrington & Richardson operating rods did. It appears that Harrington & Richardson added this change to the operating rod beginning in 1961. Springfield Armory and Winchester did likewise after 1961. The vent hole on the forward end of the tube section was added to the drawing no later than April 1962. Harrington & Richardson operating rods were all marked 7267064 HRA at the forward end of the handle of the portion. Some of the Harrington & Richardson operating rods were also stamped with a material lot number centered below the first marking, e.g., 1, 3 or 5. Harrington & Richardson operating rods made of 8645 steel typically measure 35 to 38 HRC. A random sample TRW operating rod tested in April 2008 measured 42 HRC.

There were at least least two USGI contracts awarded in 1984 for M14 operating rods. The operating rods were made by Mercury Tool & Machine for both contracts. However, Mercury Tool & Machine was a subcontractor to Rock Island Arsenal for one of the two contracts. Mercury Tool & Machine operating rods have the marking: top line – 7267064 bottom line - MFR 24411. Mercury Tool & Machine operating rods sometimes have misaligned factory welds straight out of the wrapper. The welded area is usually easy to see on Mercury Tool & Machine operating rods.

The USGI M14 drawing F7267064 shows the welding of the operating rod handle and cylinder halves together and requires a hole at the front end of the operating rod. The diameter of the hole is specified to be 0.077 " + 0.006 ". The welding techniques for assembling the operating rod were developed in Remington Arms Company in 1951. Only TRW made one piece operating rods for the U. S. government. TRW operating rods have a vent hole at the front end. All other manufacturers of USGI operating rods made operating rods by flash welding the two halves together. The front end of the operating rod that contacts the gas piston is chromium plated for improved impact resistance. Rewelded USGI operating rods are sold on the surplus market. Many rewelded operating rods will not function smoothly due to misalignment of the two halves. Operating rods should be able to pass the slide test discussed in Kuhnhausen’s manual before the rifle is completely assembled.

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Commercial will shoot just as well as USGI, but the USGI parts went through higher quality control and are typically more durable.

[This message has been edited by Log (edited 6/19/2008 2:12p).]

Thanks. E-mail sent.