I'm looking into getting a digital SLR for primarily taking pics of the outdoors and I guess the kids if they wander into the shot. I dont know much about them right now and am doing some prelim research. I would like to keep it at or around $500...if possible. I dont need anything really fancy, like I said, mostly family pics. I've been looking at the Nikon D40 and Canon Digital Rebel XT. Anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, or recommendations on where to look? Thanks.

I have a Rebel XT and love it. Be careful when you find "deals" on them because a lot of places will advertise a great price and not include a battery, charger, etc... I don't know what the camera runs anymore but I've got about $1,500 in mine after lenses, etc...

My wife bought a D50, and we've been very happy with it. Of course, she already owned an N6006 and an N70 and several nikon lenses and filters, so it was a natural choice. The D40 has a good reputation too.

i have the d50, the precursor and larger body of the d40.

my brother has the d40.

the good thing about this is that we can switch/trade lenses. so if you have friends that have a canon or a nikon, that may be a bigger reason to swing one way over the other.

i like my bro's d40 for the simple fact that the flash controls/shutter controls/iso settings are on the backlit LCD screen. the similar controls on my d50 are on a nonlit LCD screen on the top of the body. i have menu options on my backlit LCD but not the above mentioned settings. the difference is that when it is dark i need a flashlight or other light source to see the settings on the top screen. this might not be a big deal to you if you dont do a lot of night shots, but i do and it is kinda a pain.

i love my camera, it takes excellent shots. i tote it nearly everywhere in spite of its size.

additionally, i know the nerdery forum has a digital camera sticky you might want to check out.

ask more questions. HTH.

If you're going to be using it outdoors, why not go for one of the last-gen cameras? Pair that up with some good glass and you're money!

10 or 20D, 350D in the Canon line.

You can find them for 100's less than the new models, and there is nothing on a D40 or XTi that you are going to need for landscape and family shots. (Unless, of course you just have money falling out of your pockets.)

My personal preference in that range is the D50 over the D40. You'll get a better price because it's a little lower megapixels (although more than you'll ever need unless you want to blow up photos larger than 16X20). Also, if I remember correctly, the D50 has an autofocus motor in the body (as does D70/D80), and the D40 requires lenses with an autofocus motor.

Essentially, you have a greater variety of lenses that can easily be used with the D50 in autofocus mode.

I tote the D50 around with me in the field with a 20-80mm & 100-300mm lens. Pretty compact all in all for a quality SLR.

A little more info:

"Lenses: The D40 only autofocuses with the latest AF-S lenses. If you already own or intend to use older-style AF lenses, like the perfectly good 70-300mm G, get a D50 instead. The D50 and D70 use any AF lens perfectly, while the D40 makes you focus the older lenses by hand. My favorite Nikon 18-200mm and 12-24mm are AF-S and work perfectly. "

From this website (where he actually recommends the D40):

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d40/d40-recommendations.htm

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Also, if I remember correctly, the D50 has an autofocus motor in the body (as does D70/D80), and the D40 requires lenses with an autofocus motor.

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yes i forgot this. a very good point Sean. and it is quite noticeable too. when i have my 70-300 lens on my D50 it is much quicker to auto focus then when it is on my brother's d40.
again, not that big of a deal but when you are trying to capture a hawk or other moving target it can make the difference in getting that shot.

I would go with the Rebel XT. you can get them for a great price right. I would buy canon of the nikon because of the lenses. Canon has the best glass in the business hands down. If you are serious about wanting to take pictures of game then you are going to need some other lenses that will cost just as much as the camera body. Like MasterAggie pointed out you will have over $1500 in the camera by the time you get done.

Some people like the idea of an SLR way more than they like the reality. The lens that the camera comes with has almost no "zoom". It will work great for around the house and portraits but will not get you close enough for wildlife or sporting events. you will need to get a 70-300mm lens and depending on the quality you buy they start at around 299 and go up to how ever much you want to spend. SLR's take amazing pictures, but you may also want to look into one of Canon's top of the line Powershots as well. It will come with a great 12x zoom and will give a lot of the same functionality as the SLR's.

If you wanna learn about SLRs this is one of the best places to get you start.

Canon Training Library

Dont rule out some of the newer high end point and shoot cameras.

Many are now being made with much larger image sensors, incredible zoom lenses (with image stabilization), and much easier access to manual controls.

Furthermore, as an outdoors camera, you will find them more portable. Camera's like the Canon G9 or SX100 can fit in your back pocket and can take pictures that rival lower end DSLR's that might require a back pack to take into the field. They are also cheaper and some models are being made more water resistant or water proof and impact resistant.

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Canon has the best glass in the business hands down.

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Canon better than Nikkor on SLR lenses???

Canon's point and shoot digicam optics are the best in the business, but on SLR, I wouldn't make that claim.

[This message has been edited by MouthBQ98 (edited 4/2/2008 10:24a).]

I guess it is one of those Ford vs. Chevy kind of deals. I love the canon lenses, but that doesn't mean that Nikon are by any means a bad lens.

I think 35chililights made a great point.

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the good thing about this is that we can switch/trade lenses. so if you have friends that have a canon or a nikon, that may be a bigger reason to swing one way over the other.

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My family is a Canon Family so we can all borrow each others accessories. This should be one of your most contributing factors.

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I guess it is one of those Ford vs. Chevy kind of deals.

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It is indeed. I have a nikon D70s. I purchased it new, and i have no freinds or other nikon lenses. Its just the brand i wanted and it had the features i liked. It was more comfortable to me than the comparble Canon. However, i CAN use old nikon lenses on it. I dont THINK you can use old canon lenses on a new DSLR canon, but im not sure.

You can use any EF lens (most lenses back to the 70's) on the Rebel XT and up.

The issue is that some of the higher end canons won't let you use the EF-S lenses. These are the new lenses developed for the smaller sensors in the entry level DSLR's.

I've got access to a friend's Nikon D40 this weekend. Since I've never used an SLR before this will give me a chance to see if I like how it feels. Thanks for all the info.

and have the Canon XTi and it's awesome, I just invested in an L lens. You can find the body only for around $500 and then choose the lens you think will work best.

I have a d50 and love it, not a fan of the d40 because of the AF issue, It has gone duck hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, with no issue.

I am getting ready to get a Nikor 70-200 f/2.8 lens for mine, If i can talk the old lady in to the cost.

gunslinger,

check out the 18-200 with the vibration reduction.

awesome review here:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/18200.htm

its is a bit pricey, but you dont have to carry two lenses and switch lenses.

Ignore Ken Rockwell because he is batsheet crazy. No serious photographer takes him seriously.

The best deal right now in Digital SLRs is a used Canon 20D. Check it out.

Lenses are where it gets expensive. For outdoors, you generally need long lenses. Long lenses cost a lot of money.

If you are just doing landscapes, most lenses will do.

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additionally, i know the nerdery forum has a digital camera sticky you might want to check out.

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BINGO.

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Canon has the best glass in the business hands down.

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Historically, Canon has been much better with the long lenses (200mm and bigger) and zoom lenses (the 16-35mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8) and Canon is the one that brought Image Stabilization to the masses. Nikon copied it for their VR. Nikon has generally been better in their ultra wide angles (12-24mm) and their prime lenses (85mm 1.4.)

If you look at the professionals at any sporting event, they will be at like 80-90% Canon because Canon was better with their bodies until recently and much better with their long glass.

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Canon better than Nikkor on SLR lenses???

Canon's point and shoot digicam optics are the best in the business, but on SLR, I wouldn't make that claim.

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And you would be wrong. Watch any pro football, soccer, baseball, etc game and you will see all white lenses. Guess who made those and why those photographers chose it? Everyone was shooting Nikon for film. The F5 is an amazing camera.

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However, i CAN use old nikon lenses on it. I dont THINK you can use old canon lenses on a new DSLR canon, but im not sure.

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You can use any EOS lens. If you had a Canon AE-1, you can't use that. But I am not sure exactly why you would want to use a 30 year old lens. Things have improve over time and old lenses get fungus.

i was wondering how long it would take you to find this thread GS.

a bit longer then i would have guessed...

Only saw it because I was reading the SCUBA thread.

Am making PPs for Friday's presentation on being a photojournalist.

I fing hate powerpoint.

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Guess who made those and why those photographers chose it? Everyone was shooting Nikon for film. The F5 is an amazing camera.

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note I did not say digital SLR. My wife also shoots an N6006 and an N70. Film is far from dead. 35mm resolution still puts a beatdown on most digital cams...

I still say canon makes the best point and shoots...but I like the Nikon Bodies better.

[This message has been edited by MouthBQ98 (edited 4/2/2008 2:07p).]

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Film is far from dead.

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Canon and Nikon have stopped making film cameras. The nail is in the coffin.

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I still say canon makes the best point and shoots...but I like the Nikon Bodies better.

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Other than the D300 and the D3, Nikon bodies are a step below their Canon counterpart. This has been the case throughout the digital SLR phase. The D300 and D3 are amazing cameras.

guitarsoup...I remember an extremely long post of yours a few months back about how to buy a camera (something like that)

What is the advantage of the D20 over the Xti?

I am interested in doing some baseball, football, and maybe some game shots. Then I want to take my pics and make documents such as calendars, etc. for fund raising projects.

I have the old AE-1 with all lenses up to 1000mm that I have not used for years. Assume by what you said, I should just leave that stuff in the closet.

so is this a good deal or not?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-D50-Digital-SLR-Camera-2-Lens-Kit-2GB-USA_W0QQitemZ350041702804QQihZ022QQcategoryZ122616QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

You could be right. I still prefer me a nikon. I'm just used to them I guess.

I know digital is super convenient, but old school film still has some clearly superior photographic capabilities.

It doesn't matter which you get...you will amaze yourself with the quality of your photos.
I don't see anyway you can stay in the $500 range unless you go with some sort of package deal and it will probably have a lens with a value of $75.

A competent photograper will take better photos with a Nikon than you will with a Canon.....likewise he will take better photos with a Canon than you will with a Nikon.

sunchaser...look at the one on ebay that I posted..what do you think?

35Chilis, I am looking for some fast glass for sports... I have a kit lense and 70-300 already, but they are obviously in the f/4.x range.


for the OP, also check out the Olympus 7series point and shoot, it is truly water proof. I am probably going to pick one up for kayak fishing this spring. DSLR are not very good with water.

Canon

Nikon

Pentax

I've enjoyed our d40 very much. As a beginner in photography (as in real green), my first photo OP paid for the camera and lenses. Focusing can be a problem at times or it may be me.

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What is the advantage of the D20 over the Xti?

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The 20D is older, but was made better. It is a bigger body - so I think it feels better. I absolutely hate the small bodies of the D40 and the XTi. The 20D body is made out of a magnesium alloy, where the XTi and D40x are plastic.
The 20D can do 5 frames per second if you are doing sports. The XTi and D40x are like 2.5-3FPS. That is a huge difference.

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I have the old AE-1 with all lenses up to 1000mm that I have not used for years. Assume by what you said, I should just leave that stuff in the closet.

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I had an AE-1, but I don't ever remember a 1000mm lens. If you really want to use those lenses for whatever reason, some second parties make an adapter for use with the new cameras. They will only be completely manual, but I think they were to begin with anyway.

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I am interested in doing some baseball, football, and maybe some game shots.

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Then you need pretty expensive lenses. A 70-200mm 2.8 lens is a minimum. 200mm of reach will get you a good shot at about 20 yards. That isn't very far.

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I know digital is super convenient, but old school film still has some clearly superior photographic capabilities.

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This isn't really true anymore.

I can print this without any pixelation at 39feet by 3 feet. Do you think you could print something that big with perfect resolution and definition from a film camera? (What I posted was obviously scaled down.)

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A competent photograper will take better photos with a Nikon than you will with a Canon.....likewise he will take better photos with a Canon than you will with a Nikon.

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Very true. Both Canon and Nikon make great equipment. Much better than anyone else. I wouldn't even consider any other brand.

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ebay auction

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I would not buy that. They make money by jacking up the price with a bunch of crap you dont need. Those lenses are crap as well.

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35Chilis, I am looking for some fast glass for sports... I have a kit lense and 70-300 already, but they are obviously in the f/4.x range.

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Fast glass starts in the 2.8 range and goes down to the Canon 50mm F/1.0. Fast glass is very expensive. The long, fast lenses for sports are extremely expensive. The 400mm 2.8 lens is 6500. The 300 2.8 IS is 3900.